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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
 Posted - 04/30/2003 : 06:31:34
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If Jack is living in an apartment, that was rented even if rent free they would not be considered co- habitating or whatever. Personal Property in that apartment would not be covered under Jill's policy because she has no vested intrest in it. An apartment , if considered such, would be listed seperately or require another policy be written for Jack,Personal Property.
I don't have my policy with me. I moved everything to the office, so this is just an oppinion.
If Jill had the apartment included in her policy as one residence after the other tenants moved out, it could be covered, however Jill would have to make the claim as having a vested intrest.
Jack cannot make a claim because he is not the insured.
If that apartment was not converted from a seperate residence, nothing in that apartment can be claimed under Jill's policy except what she actually furnishes. Now all that said, was the policy changed after the renters moved out? If not, it is a seperate residence and it would be shown on the policy as such. ( I would have to see Jill's policy)
I wouldn't stick by the "Vested Intrest" statement if this would have been considered a single residence and try to find coverage, otherwise, no cigar.
I am working on some projects, cutting grass, weed eating, and cleaning up vehicles. I spent almost the whole day on the car yesterday, today gotta get my truck, but it is not too bad.
I got lazy at the convention. If I don't stay busy my old frame gets warped.
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2003 : 07:51:23
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I'll try again, my last post didn't make sense even to me.
The apartment would not be covered for contents unless Jill had changed the status under her HO 4. under declarations. Jack would not be insured, because it is considered a seperate residence.
He could not be considered an insured with out some indication that there was only one residence.
If Jill had property insurance on the apartment that Jack moved into and the fire started in
Jill's apt. then there is a possibility Jack's stereo could be claimed under Jill's liability coverage or damage to property of others, if certain conditions are met.
I don't think the fact that Jack and Jill are living together has any bearing on the facts. There are, as stated two residences. Jill has no vested intrest in the contents of other apartment except that which she furnishes. The free loader has not insured his contents and it makes no difference if he spends all his time with Jill, he ain't covered. IMHO |
Edited by - TomToll on 05/11/2003 10:47:03 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2003 : 08:05:06
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| Newt, your last post says, ".... there are, as stated two residences ....". Where has the author of the thread - the 'holder' of the 'claim file details' - made that statement? |
Edited by - CCarr on 05/05/2003 08:07:18 |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2003 : 13:17:14
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OOPS, I was hoping the last two posts of mine would get deleted before any one caught the error.
I asked the moderator to remove those two last posts of mine, after I read the original post.
I hoped no one would catch my blunder. The problem was, I read the post and waited a few days before I answered. I had it in my head that Jill was renting Jack an apartment or letting him use an apartment. Sorry you had to catch my blunder. What happened to the trash can? I did have that option before, and now its gone, I gotta watch what I reply to.
I haven't had a lot of spare time lately, I barely have time to check my mail. We had some wind damage the other night, mostly limbs and small branches, no building damage. Others were not so lucky. |
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deward1
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2003 : 11:03:16
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| What happened to the adage we have all used as good CAT adjusters. "I am looking for a way to pay you." If this were true you would have no need to ask anyone if they are covered. Pay the claim and go on down the road to the next one. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2003 : 11:19:32
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Yes De, a "good" adjuster - cat type or any other - should always have the correct mindset to try and find coverage. But, that search is a journey, and if it requires questions to be asked, they must be asked; and those answers 'computed' into the "cause and coverage" analysis so a proper conclusion can be reached.
Therefore, your interpretation of your quote, "I'm looking for ....", being that "you would have no need to ask ....", is wrong, as is your last sentence taken as a general concept applied to claims handling.
The approach you suggest, is not an accepted fundamental in the adjustment process. |
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france615
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2003 : 17:18:41
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Hello,
I am hoping that someone here can offer a word of advice. I currently have a policy through Farmers insurance. I have a "roomer" living with me that recently fell down the stairs in my home. I am concerned that she plans on pursuing a personal injury suit. Would I typically be covered under my policy for this?
Thanks in advance for any feedback you can offer.
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2003 : 21:07:13
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Franci, I don't know if I will give you any feedback or not, my patience quotient is running pretty thin right now from all the silly and insultive behavior of our resident bully - Mr. My Way, due to differing opinions.
However, at this point with your post, it would be quite difficult for anyone to provide you with much useful feedback; based on the minimal information provided.
If you provided the following, constructive feedback could be provided by those familiar with the Personal Liability section of a personal property policy.
1. Do you own the "home"?
2. How long have you lived in that "home"?
3. What is the "roomers" relationship to you?
4. How long has the "roomer" lived with you?
5. Do you have any kind of tenancy agreement with the "roomer"?
6. What are the detailed circumstances leading up to the "roomer" falling down your stairs, including what (if anything) the "roomer" was wearing on her feet?
7. Describe the stairs - what you know about them and any covering and hand rails, lighting, etc?
8. Were you present / did you witness - when the "roomer" fell down the stairs?
This is just some of the very basic info required to help determine both - whether you would "typically be covered" and shed some light on the exposure.
Please be as detailed as you can. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2003 : 21:31:28
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Franci:
Were you "negligent" in any way in "causing" your "roomie" to be injured?
Had you taken any actions or failed to take any actions which might have contributed to the "accident" which injured your "roomie"?
Does your "roomie" qualify as "an insured" (by definition) under your insurance policy?
Which policy form and edition is your policy?
What were the "extent" of your "roomie's" injuries? Was hospitalization required for your "roomie's" injuries and did "roomie" lose time from "work"?
Has "roomie" retained an attorney?
What is your present situation with "roomie" and has this accident changed that relationship? |
Edited by - JimF on 06/18/2003 21:32:53 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2003 : 22:17:21
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Franci:
By any chance, do you live in Toronto or Montreal?
If so, I have a recommendation for you.
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Edited by - JimF on 06/18/2003 22:18:08 |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2003 : 23:08:26
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| Jim many times I have defended you and occassion we have disagreed on issues. I don't know what your problem is, but it is my opinion that you are out of line in your continuing attacks on Clayton. Prove your points with facts as you so well can do, but to attack him becuase he disagrees with you and is Canadian is un called for, unless some how he threatens your ego. This gentleman has asked a serious question and when we have more facts we can get some serious answers. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2003 : 23:18:51
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Mark,
Obviously, if the insured is in Canada the claim would be handled under a Canadian insurance policy under generally accepted claims standards and guidelines which differ from country to country, and I just wanted to know what loci the insured resided in and under what jurisidiction a negligence lawsuit might be filed and heard.
As Alan Jackson so appropriately reminds us, black letter and case law varies from state to state as well as from country to country. So before suggesting an answer to the question posed, it would be essential for any adjuster (in this case a liability adjuster not a cat adjuster) to know which state, province or country's case law was operative.
Hope this helps. |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2003 : 12:37:03
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Jim, while your question of policy and form is a very valid one, please note that France615's listed locale is Phoenix, AZ. I would not think it necessary to ask which country and certainly not which city in Canada.
Please let's not allow this thread to degrade to another circus. |
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sbeau4014
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2003 : 15:40:49
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| Thank you Linda! We have enough circus acts going on in a couple other threads. Would be good to get the forums back to where they should be on proper dialog and debate on claim issues with out all the name calling and other antics being displayed. There are ways of disagreement on a subject without displaying the bitterness that is coming out. Let's get these forums back to the spirit they were intended for. |
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france615
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2003 : 15:39:23
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Thanks to everyone that has responded. I will try and give as much detail as possible. I apologize for the long post that will follow. I want to be sure to supply all of the pertinent information.
CCarr:
I own the home and have lived there since Sept.2002. After moving in I placed an online ad for a roommate. I met my roommate in response to this ad and she moved in Feb. 2003. She does not have a lease with me, it was a verbal agreement to go month to month, and we each agreed to give each other 30 days notice if it wasn't working out. Although she does not have a lease, she does have a phone/internet installed in her name in the home.
Prior to her moving in she had told me that she did not work and that she received disability for a movement disorder (Dystonia). She told me that she was still very physically active however her condition would not allow her to sit for long periods of time.
On June 10th, I requested that she begin looking for another place to live as it was not working out partially as I learned that she was regularly heavily medicated, had seizures, etc. due to her disability and partially because of other personal conflicts (multiple overnight guests, marijuana use in the home, etc). She was very upset with this and did not speak to me after this.
Early in the morning on June 16th, I awoke around 2 am as I heard a loud truck outside, I looked out my bedroom window but could see nothing a few moments later I heard the front door of the home opening and closing repeatedly. I went downstairs to see what was going on as I made it down the stairs. I saw several paramedics surrounding my roommate. When I asked what happened they said that she had fallen down the stairs, climbed back upstairs to get the phone climbed back downstairs to unlock the door and called them. At the time, she could not speak as she said the pain had caused her to begin having a seizure (her legs were shaking involuntarily, however she was conscious).
I was perplexed at why I had not heard the fall nor had I heard her call out for help. I am a very light sleeper. The paramedics took her to the ER and I called a friend of hers to meet her at the hospital. I did not go to the hospital that evening as I had loaned my car to a friend earlier and did not have transportation.
The following morning I called the ER to speak to her and they notified me that she had been released. She did not return home until the early morning on Wednesday, June 18th.
I came down stairs and asked how she was doing and to see exactly what had happened. At that time she said that she had been standing on the 3rd stair, lost her footing and that she had grabbed the railing and it had come off. I immediately went over to look at the railing and it was loose (the nail on the bottom portion of the railing had been pulled free). She made a point to tell me that she had not pulled it loose in the fall and that it must have been that way prior. If this is the case, I was unaware of it.
There are 3 flights of stairs. U-Shaped is the best that I can describe them. Basically it is one flight, with a short landing, you turn to the right, a second flight, short landing and right again and the third flight. There are two lights that can be turned on either upstairs or downstairs.
I am concerned that she is planning on suing, as she was very accusatory when I spoke with her the following morning. She is also very litigious, as I recently learned she is expecting 2 settlements relating to auto accidents and know that she fought very hard to qualify for disability at the age of 29. We have not really spoken since this conversation on the 18th. To my knowledge she has not retained an attorney, although if she has I don't believe she will tell me until she has vacated the property.
I apologize again for such a long post. I really appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.
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Shackin' Up With Jack and Jill
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