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Posted By dcmarlin on 12 Aug 2009 09:43 PM

... If all the roofs have to be replaced, we are talking about $400,000.00

OK, so they are likely paying premiums for a multi-million dollar policy for damage to their combined buildings. It is what it is.

1). If the hail hits alone are not enough to total the roof, then I suppose you have found some number within the test squares, but not enough to ring the buzzer.  That would give you an "X" number of damaged shingles per square times the squares for that slope.

2). The wind damaged slopes are gonna be considered "non-repairable" by most folks, especially with the multi-layer scenario.  I believe the cost-equivalent for T-locks these days is often considered a 30 yr laminate in terms of pricing.  That is sort of an upgrade, but the 25 year 3 tab could be a downgrade and you have to make a choice.  Of course the hail-hit shingles are in the same boat.

3). You have to dance with the one that brought ya.  If you are working for a carrier that does not always take the high road... then you may have to get inventive.  I personally would not consider alternatives to R&R if it was up to me, and the shingles are not available.

4). If there are some completely un-damaged slopes, that is where I would try to stop the bleeding.  If the hail was directional.

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to look at this another way, body shops used to pound out dents and fill them with bondo.  Now people pretty much expect the Insurance company to buy new sheetmetal, and "make it like it was" (and I believe there are some state regulations on Insurance company practices in terms of vehicle repairs - Jim Gary would know).  If it was your car, and you had no insurance, and you had to fix it yourself, you might get a gallon of bondo and fix it.

If it was your building and you had no insurance, or an ACV only policy, super high deductible or whatever, you may as a reasonable person become creative in the repair that you as an individual approach a contractor to do, and pay him for.

It is kind of a different thing for an Insurance company to suggest something other than R&R if it isn't going to be in a totally pre-loss condition.  The real question is "is it repairable" and for the company that indemnifies the building with obsolete roofing... I would have to say R&R it.
 

If it can be repaired, that is the amount of the loss...... but your insured has to agree. I would hire a roof consultant to give you an opinion and the cost of repairs if I was the insurance carrier. $400,000 loss has to be justified to pay.

The areas around El Paso , New Mexico had T -locks on ever roof, but this was 10 years ago. A gent named Grey near St. Louis is a roof expert on material that is no longer available, and if $400 k is on the line I would fo some reserch and get this job repaired for about $1,000 per building. Why can, t you hand cut a T-Lock shingle in the shop and bring them to the job site  and install them.

Insured is owed for what they have at time of loss.  If it is a true repair, write it up as such and wait to see if contractor brings availability to the table.  As an adjuster, I've had to call around to see if those shingles were in fact unavailable.   Some carriers also have a searching criteria where they can find shingle availability nationally. 

Posted By Ray Hall on 13 Aug 2009 05:07 PM
Not being hateful, but I am unaware of any states that have"matching Laws" Is it just me?

Hmmm.  My memory isn't what  it used to be but it seems I've worked in such places. 

In any event, the question remains: What do you do with the 25th building? 

(You could never be hateful....)

 

I agree with Ray that an attempt needs to be made to locate some t-locks then pay to repair the roofs.  I have repaired a few roofs that had 3 tabs and know how difficult it is to remove or loosen adjacent shingles without tearing them up.  I don't see any way that you can remove t-locks for re-use, especially after sitting in the sun for aprox. 12 years.  I know that as a property owner, that would be completely unacceptable. 

I would think that after researching over the internet and making phone calls, some t-locks could be found.  It seems like white was the most common color used for a long time so the odds are you could find the right color, although they will be a lots whiter than the existing roof.

If they can't be found there might be another option but I don't know if it would be acceptable to the insurance company.  For many years, I have purchased from a dealer who sells factory closeouts, overruns, and surplus and used them on my houses, and have recommended to friends.  The cost is consistantly well under the price of retail dealers but don't come with a warranty.  Although I have never heard of this being done on a claim, I have never had a repair claim where the shingles could not be matched.  This may not be allowed when paying a claim although there could be some valid arguments in favor of it. 

Thanks for all the responses. Please do not take this the wrong way but I have been an adjuster for many years and do know what needs to be done to correctly handle a claim. I was just looking for opinions regarding if others feel the repair proposed is feasible and reasonable or if I am totally off base.

Rickhans, my original thought was the same as yours. Can we reasonably use a 12 year old shingle from another roof for a patch? But, salvaged parts are used on cars every day. From a 40 - 50 square roof, I am sure we can find a couple hundred shingles that are in good condition. Heck, if needed, we can use two of the 25 roofs to repair the rest.

Bob, I agree R&R is probably what should be done but it is part of our job to look for alternative solutions, if reasonable. As you said, if not for insurance, most reasonable prudent people would look for an alternative and creative repair solution.

The insured (a condo assoc.) already has a roofer so they are pushing for the replacement. The minor damage (wind with a few hail hits thrown in) is substantially less than 1% of the roof surface. If a close t-lock color can be found, the damage can easily be repaired. There in lies the problem, finding t-locks. Due to patents, you really cannot cut them out of 90 lb. That is why I was asking if others felt the repair proposal is feasible or not. Thanks again.

ddreisbach, as for the 25th roof, I would estimate to replace it with 30 year. The fact that all other roofs are t-locks is a non issue; unless the birds complain.

Assuming you are an independent adjuster? Don't know what reporting you've done to date but the carrier needs to be advised of the $400k+ exposure for reserving and made aware of the issues and what steps you have taken to locate t-locks. You should be asking for direction from the carrier. I'm sure it's not the first time they've faced this issue with t-locks.  Prompt and thorough reporting enables the carrier to take necessary steps re: coverage determination and provide the necessary direction.

If the carrier is already aware of the issues then a followup report re:  your damage estimates (repair and replacment) ; the insured's position; and asking what further investigation the carrier would like you to accomplish.

Sounds like the carrier is already aware of the issues and I suspect the insured has indicated that a repair is not going to be acceptable. All you can do is present the options together with the insured's position (which is key coupled with 1) finding replacement t-locks; and 2) a contractor willing and able to guarantee the repairs).

This is not Mr. Marlin's first rodeo. I have seen him on this forum for many years.

This problem has been around longer than any of us. I had a loss with some of these issues when I was out of training school one week. About the same differance $25,000 to repair the direct windstorm damage and $400,000 to replace all the roofs because of....... bla   bla.... bla..... I called my boss and said I was over my head and the insured was eating me alive, please give the file to some one who has the knowledge on how to close this file. My boss never took the file away from me and it was settled. About 6 years after this loss I was at a meeting with both my  old bosses over dinner I brought this case up and both kinda grinned when I ask them why did the leave me out in the deep water to sink or swim.( I had my own IA officethen)

They did ask, do you remember how you closed the loss  and I said no I cant remember how I closed it. How did I close it, was my question. They grinned again and said; we can,t remember either. However, you was our staff employee and we trained you and still have  confidence  that you will find a way to close these types of losses.

I have confidence in you Marlin, hang in there and get it closed.

400,000 ......Hmmmmm...sure sounds like a nice biller

Marlin

Good for you and drink a tall smooth one for me........