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Last Post 05/29/2013 6:04 AM by  CatAdjusterX
Soliciting Earthquake Knowledge
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Medulus
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04/04/2008 4:07 PM

    As many of you know, I have a new position as Claims Analyst with Insurance Company of the West.  The position involves, in addition to handling complex commercial claims, working on special projects.  My latest project is one that may be of interest to some of the long time adjusters on this site.  I could also use some advice from those who have worked earthquakes in the past (especially Loma Prieta and Northridge).  I was a green auto adjuster on his first staff cat assignment with State Farm during the Northridge quake.   

    Here's the project I've been assigned:  Create a syllabus and presentation designed to train experienced adjusters from other disciplines (auto, work comp, surety, and casualty) to be useful augmentation to the property staff examiners in the event of a major earthquake cat event.

    The exposure will be on our Difference In Conditions (Earthquake) and Commercial Property policies.  We have no homeowners business currently in force.  I'm just gathering materials and ideas for the presentation at this point.

    Any ideas and stories from those of you withexperience with this type of event would be much appreciated.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    host
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    04/04/2008 10:59 PM

    Hi Steve,

    I worked the Northridge quake for two years and then went back in 2001 for almost another two years when legislation went into effect that allowed policyholders to reopen their Northridge claims.

    Are you looking for information on damage identification, scoping, estimating, policy or all the above. Scoping the loss was often very interesting to say the least. Nothing like being on your belly in a tight crawlspace during an after shock.

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    Tom Toll
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    04/05/2008 4:39 PM

    Try this Steve. Lots of good information.

    http://www.sacsteel.org/design/fema...hap5-2.pdf

    This is also an excellent book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-Da...0913875422

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Medulus
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    04/07/2008 7:28 PM

    To answer your question, Roy.

    I am just beginning this project, so what I am looking for at this point is:

    1.  What types of structural issues are particularly prevalent during earthquakes?  I plan to do some research into concrete construction, masonry veneer, how to tell a settlement crack from an earthquake crack, what are the various repair methods for concrete, etc,  when do you repair versus when do you replace.

    2.  What are the unique features of earthquake damage?  e.g. Are aftershocks likely to create new damage, exacerbate damage done by the main earthquake, etc.

    3.  Stories are also good as an anecdotal way of presenting some of the materials.

    4.  Even though earthquakes are generally excluded on commercial forms such as CP 0010 Property Forms, CP 0030 Business income loss forms, or CP1030 causes of loss forms, are there areas where coverage may be afforded that is supplemental to the DIC forms specifically designed to cover earthquake?  I already have a pretty good working knowledge of the DIC and commercial property forms that we write.  I will be studying them in more detail to see if there are any wrinkles in them that might apply in unexpected ways.   Anyone who encountered any of those wrinkles during Northridge or Loma Prieta might be able to steer me in directions I mi9ght not otherwise consider. 

    When I am done with the sylabus it is likely to become my job to present the training to those hand selected adjusters from other parts of my company.  Their role will be as claim examiners on the claims inspected and prepared by independents.  I want to make sure I equip these adjusters who are knowledgeable already  in their own fields to also be adequate or better property examiners.

    Tom, the links are much appreciated and I will be checking them out in more detail soon.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    johnpostava
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    04/08/2008 3:12 PM
    Dan Dyce is the main CA EQ guy. He probably has a great deal of knowledge to share. His number is (916) 551-1510.
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    katadj
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    04/08/2008 10:15 PM
    Steve,

    We had Al Paxton from California speak on EQ at the 2000 CADO convention in Biloxi, MS.
    Here is his website and perhaps he can be of some assistance.

    http://www.pcagroup.net
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
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    Medulus
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    04/09/2008 6:42 PM

    Thank you all so far. With the advice I have gotten here plus a little extra help via private email, I am making a good start on this project. Digging out the California Earthquake Authority training course (which I believe was compiled by Dan Dyce, John) has been of some assistance as well.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    Medulus
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    04/22/2008 6:29 PM

    In a quick side note:

    I just closed a Northridge earthquake file today.  People have been trying to close this claim since 1999.  For those not yet in the choir, let me inform you that's what real catadjusters do.  They close claims.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    HuskerCat
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    04/22/2008 10:27 PM

    That had to give you a pretty good feeling, Steve.  The difference now is...you've always had the gun loaded & the ammunition to back you up, but didn't have the authority to pull the trigger as an independent cat adjuster.  I remember the days well, when as a staffer I had full policy limit authority & the checkbook in the pocket to pay the claim on site.  You've been there just a few weeks now, and put an old dog to sleep.  Just goes to show that the people who hired you have a great deal of faith in your capabilities, and can look at themselves now as being pretty sharp judges of talent.  

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    carithomas5141
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    05/21/2013 9:13 AM
    Posted By Tom Toll on 05 Apr 2008 04:39 PM

    Try this Steve. Lots of good information.

    http://www.sacsteel.org/design/fema...hap5-2.pdf

    This is also an excellent book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-Da...0913875422


    Thanks Tom Toll for sharing such a useful links with us.good job.keep it up!!!
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    AcceleratedAdjuster
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    05/23/2013 7:35 AM

    Way to necro a 5 year old thread!

    www.acceleratedadjusting.com www.acceleratedadjustingisrael.com
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    Goldust
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    05/23/2013 8:29 AM

    Hi Steve,

      The Northridge EarthQuake taught us a lot .The main thing we found was there is a lot of subtle damage that you needed to really take your time and investigate. The use of good quality engineers was imperative to handle the damage we found. We had to weed thru them and develop a list of the truly good engineers. There was a lot of concrete damage that was repairable all beit there was a lot of concrete that had no rebar in it and was constructed on uneven ground. Back then a caison that wasn't there before the quake was not covered. But! companies went the extra mile on a lot of items at the engineer's request to make a good solid fix for the insured. We were required to do soil test core samples to see what was underneath to work with. On one of my claims I remember we found 14' of fill dirt that had never been compacted.On that claim we physically raised the entire 2,500 sf .building up 6' then installed a new slab w/ rebar in it. The insured had to pay for "4"- $32,000 caisons to be installed under the new slab.

    We also ran into Swimming pools that had tilted from quake.We would cut the top apron off then pump mud under the pools to lift them back to level. Then replace the aprons .

      Back then in 1994, when we found a slab damaged from quake ,if it was level we would cut out the damaged area and epoxy rebar to both sides of remaining concrete then pour in new concrete to fill the void. Buckled slabs had to be removed and replaced back to level.

    To distinguish quake damage from old pre-existing damage to  concrete, Black top , Drywall and other items we found cracked, it was a simple matter of inspecting the edges of the cracks to see if they were sharp and crisp. if they had been filled in with dirt & debri or previously patched, it was pretty certain they were pre-existing. We were able to engineer special Fence block walls with a wrap over type of support that was much stronger than the original supports and we were able to save a lot of block walls at a substantially lower cost. There were also a lot of fireplaces and chimneys that were cracked internally and that brought about the need for the cameras we use today that are dropped down chimney to inspect them. There again the concrete and mortar would give away the weaknesses from new quake damageduring the inspection.

      These were just some of the items that stood out the most on the Northridge earthquake. We acquired a lot of claims from other" IA" companies as they had no concept of what to look for.

      We found that it made a difference which way building was facing in respect to how the earthquake hit the building also. The Northridge earthquake was a rolling quake much like the waves in the ocean. It would lift walls then drop them back into place with many split studs in the walls under the wall covering. The Pier & beam construction we found under buildings was tipped over when buildings lifted and then dropped back down. We also found exterior building walls that had never been fastened to the foundation or the slabs. A lot of the walls had stud bolts but no nuts on them.

    Northridge by far was probably the most interesting cat I have ever been on. I hope you will be able to use some if not all this info for your project.

    JERRY TAYLOR
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    Catmandale
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    05/26/2013 10:30 AM
    Jerry,

    Thanks for the great post.

    I have good memories from Northridge, having worked it for about 7 years, both as staff and as an IA. It changed my career, providing an education I greatly value.

    If I had to distill my experience, I would say that most of the structures we encountered were built for a static vertical load, and the introduction of lateral forces led to the creation of damage. And it certainly was subtle at times. A major approach factor was that, rather than a focused outside event like fire or wind peril, the earthquake event was ground up and systemic.

    Dale Strain
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    CatAdjusterX
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    05/29/2013 6:04 AM
    Posted By carithomas5141 on 21 May 2013 09:13 AM
    Posted By Tom Toll on 05 Apr 2008 04:39 PM

    Try this Steve. Lots of good information.

    http://www.sacsteel.org/design/fema...hap5-2.pdf

    This is also an excellent book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-Da...0913875422


    Thanks Tom Toll for sharing such a useful links with us.good job.keep it up!!!

    ....................................................................

    Just an update, Tom Toll is no longer with us. Yet he shared so much information, of course related toward the adjusting industry, but it is my belief the best information he shared was so much more than just adjusting, but how to be a compassionate kind human being.

    One of the many great things about CADO is Tom's many posts are forever archived and from that, I imagine that Tom will continue to teach the experienced and newly licensed alike how to excel as an adjuster but more importantly how to excel as a good human being

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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