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Last Post 04/10/2007 12:06 AM by  rickhans
Treating trusses with smoke damage.
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Streetraces
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03/19/2007 5:11 PM

    Hello,

    I have a question that seems to get mixed answers. 

    In a home that has been damaged by fire, some of the trusses and studs that were not damaged need to be treated to make sure they do not smell like smoke.  Some say to use silver nitrate paint then seal, while others say clean and use several coats of sealer. 

    I am wondering which is the best long term solution.  A year from now will one of the solutions start to fail and release a smoke smell?  Are there any other solutions you are aware of?

    BTW I should have searched the archives before posting this, but since we are slow anyways ill post it anyhow.

    Chris Thomas

    Tags: Fire
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    Ray Hall
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    03/19/2007 7:09 PM

    The restoration contractors will want to use the most costly, clean then seal, then paint 1,2,3

    Fifty years ago you had the attic spayed with silver paint. This still works today. The odor will not stay in the attic more than a few days after  the soft material is removed (insulation). The pine or fir rafters-joist with sapcooked/ bleeding out to not have to be replaced, just spray over the wood/sap. All electric runs do not have to be homeruns, look at the wire and use junction boxes, a visual of the wire will tell you the damage.

    I have never had a call back on silver paint in the attic.

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    katadj
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    03/19/2007 7:42 PM
    Any wood framing that has been burnt more than 1/4 of an inch will have to be replaced. This is a normal requirement of the BOCA code.

    The balance can be sealed with Kilz or another equal product, such as Foster's.

    As far as odor goes, any paint can be used if it has 1 OZ of Vanilla Extract added per gallon. The Vanilla totally eliminates smoke odor.
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
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    Wes
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    03/19/2007 10:34 PM
    Is that real vanilla or can you use imitation? LOL It could get very expensive using real vanilla in your paint when you are talking spraying all the surfaces of an attic with it. I would guess that it would take several tens of gallons to seal an attic.
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    katadj
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    03/19/2007 10:49 PM
    BUT, you can buy a quart of pure Vanilla extract from Mexico for about 10.00.

    So you always get what you pay for, and if it works why bother with a few extra bucks?
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
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    margar1
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    03/20/2007 11:20 PM
    Includes: Stain/odor sealer and labor.
    Quality: White pigmented shellac on trusses and sheathing on roof.
    Note: If the overhang is going to be sealed add the SF.

    This is my personal preference .It is a seal per square foot per for truss section. It seems to me to be a middle of the road line item and appears to be cost effective.

    The line item per Xactimate is ... PNT --- TR+
    Mark S Garland
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    margar1
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    03/20/2007 11:32 PM
    Per pricing for 1st quater 2007 - Paducah, Ky
    Mark S Garland
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    rickhans
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    04/07/2007 5:43 PM

    I hate to appear dumb, but I can't figure out what the unit of measure is in that chart.  Labor and material are added together.  If it is per sq. ft., what sq. ft. measurement is used?  I have not used Xact yet so I don't know their shorthand.

    As to the actual job, I have done several fire damage renovations and used Kilz oil base on all but one. A sub used a fogger with a resin based material to seal the rafters and decking in the attic and we never got any complaints about it, but I have never found that product since then.  I wanted to use it a year ago to fog a/c flex ducts to kill cigarette smoke in a house I bought, but could not find any such product to do it.

    One thing I do know, however, is that the amount allowed for spraying the attic is never enough to cover the risk involved.  There is a high risk of a spark igniting the fog in the attic and even more danger of the spray man being overcome.  I had one painter on the payroll who was wearing a double carbon filter spray mask but still became drunk from the fumes in the short time he was in the attic and fell through the sheetrock into the living room.  Fortunately he landed on his feet and was not hurt at all. I finished the spraying but covered myself head to toe along with the filter and only spent short times in the attic.

    My own house has rafters sealed with Kilz oil base and the odor never came through.

     

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    RandyC
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    04/08/2007 11:41 PM

    Some of the low tech ideas presented in this thread were pretty good.  Why  use a sophisticated method when a simple one works.  I remember re-wiring burn outs for a contractor in the 70's that used aluminum paint to seal charred areas.

    My Vale notes (Garth Reeve lecture) suggest using a thermal fogger to spread a heated mist of sealer over the surface of areas where partially burned smoke has risen upon heated air to settle.

    There are two odors, one physical and another psychological.   We have to get rid of the physical odor and create a new anchor with a new odor.  Haven't you ever had an unwanted odor malinger for hours even days after you first suffered it?  That experience is real, even if only psychological.

    After you have sealed the surface areas, there is the odor that hangs in the air.  Ozone machines coverts O2 into O1.  O1 looks to bond with something else and become something odorless like H2O, CO2, O2, or O3. 

    High levels of O2 is bad for humans, plants, animals, and natural rubber, so you have to minimize contact with these things while using the Ozone machine.  It removes the good odors as well as familiar odors.

    After the bad odors have been neutralized, the homeowners should do their normal things to put their own smells back into the house.

    A masking scent can be used to keep the smoke anchor from re-forming in the home owner's mind while he is adding new and natural smells of his own to the home.  Apple pie, fresh baked cookies, strawberries, and vanilla are examples of masking scents.  By the time the masking scent wears off,  familiar scents will have been replaced with new anchors being formed rather than anchors recalling the offensive odors even when they are no longer present.

    Randy Cox

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    Tom Toll
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    04/09/2007 7:11 PM

    All the years adjusting I have done, I have allowed silver coat on rafters, joists. and framing members. It has worked for years and I see no reason that it will not work now. There are proven measures that eliminate the odor. The psychological end of it is left up the policyholder. In time, it all goes away.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    rickhans
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    04/10/2007 12:06 AM

    Can you tell me the name or brand of the silver sealer you are talking about and a source for the sealer to use in a fogger.  I have never heard of nor seen the silver material so I have always had to use either Kilz or pigmented shellac when I did the installation because that was all I could find. I have not even found a source for the resin to put in a fogger unless I contracted it out.  This could help me too if I write a fire claim.

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