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Last Post 05/07/2008 7:54 PM by  okclarryd
Ghost town
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mbradbury
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04/28/2008 5:36 AM

    I've been lurking on these boards for some time but never really posted anything.  I'm looking now, and things around here are starting to feel like a ghost town.  Is that because the cane season hasn't started yet, and it'll get busy as the months move on?  Or is it like this because we have had several slow seasons the last few years and everybody went and got a job at Lowe's or something selling lumber?

    I'm a young guy in this business with only a couple years of experience, and only as staff, not as an IA.  But looking around here makes me nervious of the future of our profession.

    I do it because I want to provide a better life for my family than my parents could provide for me.
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    Willinsky
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    04/28/2008 12:40 PM

    At the present time claims work seems to be hard to find, If it wasn't for my A / C work( Residental ), Inspections, and Substitute Teaching jobs there wouldn't be much going on these days. I wonder how many I A adjusters left with the lack of work these last three years. Perhaps something will happen in 2008, if not then its going to be all over for many here.

    Lawrence Willinsky
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    okclarryd
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    04/28/2008 7:57 PM
    You might follow my lead and apply at the local massage parlor.

    They always need a cleaning crew and valet parking personell
    Larry D Hardin
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    HuskerCat
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    04/28/2008 9:01 PM

    When/if a cane hits the USA, this site will look like you turned on the lights in a truckstop cafe.   Watch where you step & bring the Raid.   

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    Tom Toll
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    04/29/2008 10:08 AM

    The everlasting problems of Catastrophe Adjusting. What do you do when there is no work. There is no answer to this question except within yourself. No one know your capabilities better than you. We find local claims work and pursue it to the inth degree. We manage financially, but it gets a little frightening at times. This work is seasonal. We have learned you save as much as possible and try to lay back as much funding as possble in a savings account.

    Many of the new adjusters that started back in 04/05 have fallen to the wayside, unless they have found employment with a staff company. This is a very difficult profession to stay in. During good times, when there are many storms, no problems, but then suddenly there is no work and that leaves you confused and lonely. Be a good scout and be prepared. That includes financial preparedness for the future. Always stay in touch with friends within the industry and remember, never burn a bridge behind yourself.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Medulus
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    04/29/2008 12:12 PM

    Then there are those of us who have sold out and taken staff positions.  With each down cycle I saw in my decade as an independent there are fewer and fewer who come back.  I would be surprised if there are still 500 independent catadjusters left who predate 2004.

    But I'm sure the short sighted carriers who think their two year "veteran" staff adjusters can handle the next catastrophe can find a few people hanging around the 7-11 parking lot drinking from a brown paper bag when the need for more warm bodies arises.  Then they will spend the next couple years complaining about the quality of independents.  Then the carrier execs can pat themselves on the back and tell themselves they were right all along about independents.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    MBoy
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    04/29/2008 1:15 PM

    There is a shortage of catastrophe adjusters, but Citizens in Florida is claiming they have commitments from over 6500 for the upcoming season.  I remember in 2004 they claimed over 2000 commitments, but could field half of that.  Does anyone know where their are 6500 qualified catastrophe adjusters? 

     

    MB

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    sbeau4014
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    04/29/2008 3:08 PM
    Of those 6500 qualified cat adjusters on the Citizen's roster, I bet at least 90%-95% of them are on at least 5-20 other carriers rosters also. With some things that have come about with them in the last couple years I hope anyone who works with them goes into it with both eyes wide open and know exactly what the score is going in. They may be an excellent organization to do claims for, but I've seen a little too much with their changes to scare me off. Their claim and service record on the prior hurricanes was terrible as per the results I saw, and I think the people who call the shots may have blamed the claim handlers themselves and are making them accountable. I can't say whether that blame is justified or not, but I'm sure a lot of the blame lies with the chiefs and not the indians.
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    Medulus
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    04/29/2008 4:52 PM

    I guarantee its the same couple hundred adjusters signed up over and over again by different companies.   And qualified for Citizen's work doesn't mean they have more than six months actual adjusting experience, if that.  Remember that someone who worked the hurricanes in 2004 and 2005 for three months each, and nothing since, are likely to claim they have been adjusters for four years.

    As for me, last year I saw the Citizen's schedule and said to myself, "This reeks.  This is the worst fee schedule I may have ever seen."  But I started down the process road in the event I may have to accept that work.  I also had it in the back of my head that I would take almost any other work first.  After the tests and the drug test and the confidentiality statement and the ethics course, and when a new demand surfaced each week to be "Citizen's Certified", I just said, "No more." 

    The liklihood is that Citizen's will only need people in the event of a hurricane.  Furthermore, they won't need that many unless there are multiple hurricanes.  In 2004 I got 75 calls from different vendors to come on down and work the hurricanes.  Then I stopped counting.  If I had not been gainfully employed already, I could have taken only one anyway.  If I have 75 options, do you think I will work for a Citizen's fee schedule?  Not on your sweet bippie.

    Honestly, though, the fee schedule may have been too high for the folks they would have had to settle for if there had been any actual work last year.

    Time to go round up the Applebee's parking lot guy.  Citizen's needs him bad.

    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    R_Smith
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    04/29/2008 5:41 PM
    In my prior life, I dealt with Citizens in 2003-2005. They scrubbed our list until we could provide 100 names not found on any of the other vendors list. Hopefully they are doing that now. I agree with M Brower that it is unlikely there are 6500 "adjusters" available. I would love to see the list of names.

    Maybe this is why there is an opening for the Director of Catastrophe Operations.
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    Tom Toll
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    04/29/2008 7:29 PM

    Citizens is about the most dysfunctional organization that I have seen in my 47 years as an adjuster. They are "ruling" themselves out of assistance from competent adjusters. Who wants to work, during a catastrophe, for an organization that is going to fine you for getting up in the morning. Not me.. They can take their business and put it where the sun doesn't shine. Yes, they need a director of operations and someone who has a clue as to what common sense is. I can't say I blame them for wanting competent adjusters, their just going about it all wrong.  I am sure there are some vendors who will bend their adjusters over though, after all, greed is what rules our society now.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    HuskerCat
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    04/29/2008 11:38 PM

    Tom, might I just say it is a good thing lately to see you showing your "not so Mr Nice Guy afterall" persona.  In the past I had been a little critical (tongue in cheek, of course) of you for being too warm and fuzzy.  Now that you have taken this new approach, is it because you have had enough after 47 years and it really doesn't matter anymore?  Or is it because no one is looking or whoever is looking doesn't care, and it doesn't matter?  I've always been one to take a direct approach and maybe now & then regretted it a couple days later if I might have hurt someone's feelings, but it was never intended that way.  The folks I've worked for have never had a problem with it because they understand my nature, but do you see the climate changing just in the past 2 years more than it had in your previous 45?  Frightening isn't it?  I think I can speak for about a half dozen other regulars that we may not always be politically correct, and may ruffle a feather or two, but usually only to entice further discussion.

    Happy Trails!! (I borrowed that, thanks Larry)

     

     

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    Tom Toll
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    04/30/2008 8:24 AM

    Mike, warm and fuzzy? Not hardly. I believe in having a postive attitude about all there is in life, as this allows you to become more motivated to do this work. I believe in diplomacy, first and foremost, but when that diplomacy falls upon deaf ears, then the posture requires changing. I feel we all realize that Citizens is in a complete state of chaos and they need to re-think their posture in the adjusting arena, or they will not have quality people working for them.

    Yes, times have changed this profession. Some of the vendors and companies have become subjects of La La Land. No longer can we have extensive windshield time without some form of fuel or mileage allowance when we are paying $3.50 to $4.00 per gallon for fuel. I don't think a Toyata Prius would work in this business with all the equipment the companies expect us to carry. So, yes, I am changing my posture to a more forward way, at least on this subject and of others. I should have retired three years ago, but I love this business and will do everything I can do to change it, for the benefit of future and present new adjusters.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Florida Boy
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    04/30/2008 9:02 AM
    Posted By Tom Toll on 04/29/2008 7:29 PM

    Citizens is about the most dysfunctional organization that I have seen in my 47 years as an adjuster. They are "ruling" themselves out of assistance from competent adjusters. Who wants to work, during a catastrophe, for an organization that is going to fine you for getting up in the morning. Not me.. They can take their business and put it where the sun doesn't shine. Yes, they need a director of operations and someone who has a clue as to what common sense is. I can't say I blame them for wanting competent adjusters, their just going about it all wrong.  I am sure there are some vendors who will bend their adjusters over though, after all, greed is what rules our society now.

    Things are changing in this business and not for the better. The CAT business is becoming more like temporary staff w/o benefits. The control exerted by the carrier/vendor may jeopardize the independent contractor status of the adjuster.

    I received an info package/ adjuster agreement from a vendor where the adjuster is docked $25 on each file that 24 hour contact is not made. Contact being defined as speaking with the insured on the phone. Leaving a message does not qualify as contact. You must also use a carrier specific version of Xactimate. The file requirements etc. were more stringent than Citizens Florida and the schedule was lower. The carrier is  third or fourth tier and the losses would be widely scattered. You will spend 2X time on each file. The vendor will bring in more adjusters to compensate and each adjuster would receive fewer claims.  I do not see how you could operate profitably.

     

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    okclarryd
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    04/30/2008 11:07 PM
    Well, Les, the answer is pretty simple from over here in my recliner.

    Stay at home.
    Plant some tomato plants.
    Water and prune as required.
    Breathe deeply.
    Save your gas money for your retirement or for more tomato fertilizer.

    Seriously, .............. if it costs me a lot more to do the same thing, I can't keep it up without more coming in. If my employer tells me up front that they are going to have very restrictive penalties for not complying with their guidelines and I don't think I can comply, ........... I'm gonna plant some tomatos.
    Larry D Hardin
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    Florida Boy
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    05/01/2008 7:59 AM
    Posted By Larry Hardin on 04/30/2008 11:07 PM
    Well, Les, the answer is pretty simple from over here in my recliner.

    Stay at home.
    Plant some tomato plants.
    Water and prune as required.
    Breathe deeply.
    Save your gas money for your retirement or for more tomato fertilizer.

    Seriously, .............. if it costs me a lot more to do the same thing, I can't keep it up without more coming in. If my employer tells me up front that they are going to have very restrictive penalties for not complying with their guidelines and I don't think I can comply, ........... I'm gonna plant some tomatos.


    Absolutely. I have been in this business 24 years 16 in CAT and if I stay in it I will work regular claims at home.

    Here are file requirements  for Met Life and the fee schedule is attached at the end of the post as a PDF. Working for this carrier also requres a special version of Xactimate. Looks just like Citizens. Comments?

     

     

    Overhead 10% / Profit 10% (20% combined)Application limitations:3 or more trades with unique discipline. Roof is excluded.Agreed with licensed contractor, public adjuster or attorney documented in the file.Xactimate

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    No Base Service Charges

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    If it is necessary to inspect a roof then a roof sketch is required regardless of damage

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    Description of slopes – Front Slope, Right Slope etc. Please do not use North, East, South or West.

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    All interior damaged room(s) must be diagramed

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    Elevation and Left Elevation.( Elevation Sketches can be hand drawn and scanned into the

    documents)

    Exterior must be diagramed and written in Elevations, i.e. Front Elevation, Right Elevation, Rear

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    Prefer diagrams done in sketch

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    Estimate should be written in the following order: DWELLING COVERAGE

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    …………………………………………………… Roof

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    ……………………………………………………..Exterior Elevations

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    ……………………………………………………..Interior Rooms

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    ……………………………………………………..OTHER STRUCTURES

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    ..................................................................................Detached Garage

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    ……………………………………………………..Shed

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    ……………………………………………………..Fencing, pool etc.

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    ……………………………………………………..CONTENTS

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    The above format can be easily done in Xactimate 25 and 24.

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    Window and door openings

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    Included in area scope and diagram and excluded from scope, diagram and estimate.

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    Interior and exterior areas.

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    Materials quality default to "Better" value.

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    construction materials. Insure that we pay what is owed.

    Exceptions made on per line, room or estimate based on workmanship and quality existing

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    Remove/ Replace operation application limited within scope.

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    Remove and Replace are separate operations to be used on roof shingles.

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    …………………………………………………Remove - .RFGARMV

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    …………………………………………………Replace - RFG240S on 25 yr 3-tab

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    …………………………………………………Remove - RFGARMV

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    …………………………………………………Replace - RFG280S on 30 yr 3-tab Embellished

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    …………………………………………………Remove - RFGARMV

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    …………………………………………………Replace - RFG300S on Laminate.

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    …………………………………………………Replace Felt - RFGFELT15

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    size)

    …………………………………………………R&R Chimney Flash – RFGFLCH(appropriate to

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    All other operations, drip, step, vents, plumbing boots etc. are Replace only.

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    10% waste added for gable roofs and 15% added for hip roofs on shingles only

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    slope only or reflects entire roof etc.

    Drop down note under the first line item explaining what it reflects, i.e. reflects the front and right

    PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version

    www.pdffactory.com

    ·

    not have both over the same area.

    If Ice & Water shield is applied you must deduct the appropriate amount off of the felt as you do

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    Application of the appropriate amount of depreciation based on the age and condition of the roof.

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    Dumpster will be added to the roof as DMODUMP ( appropriate size per scope)

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    calculation would be 240lbs x 24squares = 5760lbs or 2.88 tons. (This would require a 12 yard

    dump – DMODUMP<

    Drop down note under the dumpster with calculation of debris wt. i.e. 24 square roof 25 yr 3-tab

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    Gutters, Facia and Siding are written in the Elevations as described above.

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    each effected room:

    Interior damage estimates involving paint or paint and drywall repair will include the following in

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    Masking & protecting floor – PNTMASKFL

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    Masking & protecting walls (if only painting the ceiling) – PNTMASKSF

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    repaired area only”

    Priming of new drywall only(not the entire room) – PNTS with a drop down note “Priming for

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    Painting all continuous surface i.e. entire ceiling, and/or all continuous walls. PNTP2

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    the walls sustained damage.

    Do not paint walls if only the ceiling sustained damage as you do not paint the ceiling if the only

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    Contents Manipulation appropriate to room – CONLAB

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    Photos

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    No less than 4 even if this is a denial or below the deductible on an inspected claim.

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    photos could mean you will have to revisit the claim for no extra time and expense.

    Sufficient amount of photos to justify the estimate. Too many photos will not hurt. Too little

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    hits per square

    Hail claims must have a test square on each slope. Replacement of slope is justified by 8 or more

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    Minimum Charges

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    No multiple minimum charges related to the same trade in the same estimate.

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    describing what the Minimum Charge covers i.e. “Minimum Charge reflects repair to drywall in

    the Living room, Dining room and Master bedroom. Square foot price does not meet or exceed the

    minimum charge.”

    If the minimum charge applies to more than one area it should be included in a drop down note

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    Debris Removal awareness.

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    Container size to match tear out scope. (truck load, 10 yd, 15yd, 20 yd, 30 yd)

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    Line item excluded from Overhead and Profit (exception = truck load).

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    Write In to include Note.

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    Detailed description to provide clarity to the customer, contractor and supervision.

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    Lump Sum & Over rides need Company approval.

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    ITEL Carpet Analysis

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    Required on all rooms with more than 100 square feet of floor covering for carpet only.

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    FCCNFCP is to be used – see attached Flooring in Sketch document

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    Sales tax compliance based on state and local rules.

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    Proper application of estimate Header and Opening Statement

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    MetLife Auto and Home Header & Opening Statement on all losses.

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    State specific language included with the above as require

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    Estimate package to include the following:

    ü

    Activity Diary

    PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version

    www.pdffactory.com

    ü

    Estimate

    ü

    Statement of Loss

    ü

    Diagrams

    ü

    Photos

    ü

    Supporting Documents

    MetLife Auto & Home

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    www.pdffactory.com

     

    Ò

     

     

    PDF created with pdfFactory Pro trial version

    Note that  an ITEL evaluation is required on all rooms where carpet is replaced that measure more than 100 sf.

     

    Fee schedule is attached.

     

     

    The following Guiding Principles have been created as a means to support consistent, uniform

    and fair claim handling practices. They serve as a road map for the handling of Homeowner

    property claims for MetLife Auto & Home.

    Guiding Principles of Homeowner Claim Handling

     

    ·

     

    Customer Service is our number 1

    priority

     

     

    ·

     

    Customer contact with in 24 to 48 hours of receiving the claim

     

     

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    Pay what we owe under the insurance contract

     

     

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    Xactimate estimate is required on all claims

     

     

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    Adjusters must personally inventory all personal property with the customer.

     

     

    ·

     

    Building losses are settled on an Actual Cash Value basis, subject to the replacement cost

     

     

    terms of the policy (when applicable)

     

    ·

     

    Personal property losses are settled on an Actual Cash Value basis, subject to the

     

     

    replacement cost terms of the policy (when applicable)

     

    ·

     

    Completed estimate returned through Xactnet the day of the inspection.

     

     

    ·

     

    Adhere to the MetLife Auto & Home Property Adjusting Standards.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    MetLife Homeowner Estimating Standards

     

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    ·

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    Attachments
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    Tom Toll
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    05/01/2008 9:56 AM

    You can thank generation "Y" for all these changes, many of whom have never been out on a loss and do not have a clue of the work involved. If the trend continues, they will be hell bent to find qualified adjusters that are desperately needed on complex losses. Time will tell.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Florida Boy
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    Posts:57


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    05/01/2008 2:54 PM
    Posted By Tom Toll on 05/01/2008 9:56 AM

    You can thank generation "Y" for all these changes, many of whom have never been out on a loss and do not have a clue of the work involved. If the trend continues, they will be hell bent to find qualified adjusters that are desperately needed on complex losses. Time will tell.

    Staff will handle those. :-)

    The real point is that with those file requirements you will be able to close fewer claims. The vendor brings more adjusters...if they can find them and makes the same percentage. The field man loses here.

    Les

     

     

     

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    katadj
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    05/01/2008 6:35 PM
    The PDF File of Fee Schedules is Met Life version 2007, not the current Citizens schedule.
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
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    Florida Boy
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    Posts:57


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    05/01/2008 7:57 PM

    R.D. the requirements and fee schedule are Met Life, not Citizens.

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