I am just reaching out for some feedback from you veteran adjusters. I just worked my first 2 claims and 1 of them was kicked back to me for several reasons. A couple were not my fault, but two were my fault.

I over-estimated a roof claim by 2 sq. and estimated with 3 tab 25yr even though it was architectural 30yr. I fixed the shingle type and sent it back, right after I did this I realized my mistake with the 2sq. fixed it and sent it again. Not to mention, I don't know how to put my estimate, narrative and carrier issued underwriting checklist together in a single document.

I am embarrassed as all hell, I could just crawl in a hole. Will this company, HBC, have me back? Is this typical for first claims? Am I an idiot?

I sure feel like one.

The fact that you care about this stuff is what is important - that is why I want to help you out.

Roy did a great post a couple years ago explaining that but I can't find it. If you have the full version of Adobe Acrobat (got mine with a scanner I bought) it will very easily combine multiple docs.  Make sure each doc you are talking about is a PDF, or convert it to a PDF as the first step. This is called "stacking" and you could do a google search on a phrase like "Create and stack multiple documents in PDF format". 

There is free software that does this, like docuprinter - PDF Factory, PDF redirect, etc.  but if you can get a FULL version of Adobe Acrobat (not just the reader) that is the way to go.  It lets you just open the PDF's you want to combine, tell Adobe to combine open docs, confirm the sequence and re-arrange if needed, then "merge" them to a single PDF doc.  The free ones do it too - so if you don't have Adobe just download something that will get the job done.

Sounds like you are aware of the roofing issues, and you will move past that - and remember it. 

If you do need help with roof measurements, here is a "cut and paste" from another thread of mine. The reference you can send off for is small, only a few pages, but good as gold:

Yep, and for those who want to see it in writing, there is a reference that is commonly referred to in measuring roofs. It is only 4 pages long, but has everything you need to know.

You can order reprints of this March 1997 article for $10 including postage:

Just go here   http://www.npccrs.com/drlist.php?type=pdr 
and find issue 517  (scroll down)

I learned about this PDR reference from a State Farm trainer.  I have seen a training CD from Farmers with the same waste factors. 

That article also talks about "Cut Up" roofs, which they define as having more than 4 valleys.  They recommend allowing an additional 2% waste for a "cut up roof" - but I have run into resistance on that point. Everyone seems to agree on 10% for gable roof, 15% for hip (or a "cut up" gable), and this reference uses that as a starting point.  It also describes rounding up to the nearest bundle - because you cannot go to the roofing supply store and buy a partial bundle.

This reference makes no mention of deducting for chimney openings, vents, etc.  You would have to have a rather obvious area of missing roof to deduct it - not a simple penetration.

My experience with my first couple was the same, and as stated by the guy who trained me; Qoute "When the examiner or inside adjuster sees a new name, they are going to look harder at the report and estimate. Until you have made yourself a thumbprint and showed you know what you are doing you are going to be asked to make revisions and scrutinized. All new names (adjuster) on the reports is an attention getter". You will learn in time what is expected by the carrier, and what they will and will not accept. Additionally each examiner or inside adjuster has their quirks, which you will learn. While one is understanding to removing a wall to remove and replace a shower/tub unit, or removing and replacing casings, base mold etc for drywall repair others will question this, as they may not understand construction techiniques and must do's in these cases. Alot of them are new as well. As you progress you will become familiar with certain carrier staff, as they will you. All you can really do is learn from your mistakes, consult with your claims mgr (if you have one, which you should) and make notes of each examiner likes and dislikes and apply them to the estimate/report when you see their name(s). What estimating program are you using? If it is simsol it has a roof program that will figure the roof squares for you. You will need to obtain the slope length's, eave length, ridge length, hip length and so on. The program has different shapes that you simply click on and name it front, rear, east, west or whatever. See below for a scale which is used by some, and i used to use until i switched to simsol, as it is a little more user friendly IMO. To use this scale you need the obtain the eave lengths and apply a 10 0r 15% waste factor based on roof design (hip or gable).

                                                          Pitch                      Multiply

                                                            3                      1.031                                                 8                         1.202

                                                           3.5                       1.042                                                 8.5                      1.225

                                                          4                             1.054                                               9                          1.250

                                                           4.5                       1.068                                                 9.5                        1.275

                                                           5                         1.083                                                  10                        1.302

                                                         5.5                        1.10                                                    10.5                      1.329

                                                           6                           1.118                                               11                            1.357

                                                          6.5                       1.137                                                  11.5                         1.385

                                                           7                          1.158                                                   12                          1.414

                                                          7.5                         1.179

Thank you so much for the very detailed response. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this kind of charity.

As far as the roof measurements go, that will be extremely helpful. I am using Xactimate, the reason I over estimated by the 2sq. was because the roof was on two different levels. They had the main roof and a gable extension about 4 ft above the main roofs ridge line extended over the front porch. The whole roof was either 8/12 or 12/12 and had 6 valleys. It is a big big house, and very complex for my first claim. So when I punched it all into Xactimate I didn't deduct for the area that the raised gable was covering the main roof. I ended up figuring it out on my own before my claims manager did, but this is after I had already sent the claim back with corrections. SO I ended up sending 1 claim 3 times.

I've got the PDF situation figured out, and I actually found a great free tool for it. If you want it, it is at www.pdfsam.com .

I am just frustrated. I want my claims to be perfect, I want to be able to have a good reputation as a solid adjuster someday. Are my worries that I will not be asked back by HBC justified? Or am I just overreacting?

Once again, thank you so much for all of your help, it means a great deal to me.

Ut oh GW your stirred up something with your example number 1. I reread it 3 times and it sounds like the old Texas hail adjusters who would stand up in a room full of adjusters and make the statement..... to the speaker.... "thats not how I was trained, if its to old to repair you have to replace the whole roof...its like working with butterfly wings.... and the speaker(claim supervisor) replies... well you were just trained wrong, thats not how we do it.!

 I get your point, however as i stated above, everybody has different views and opinions as to what needs to be done. When i started out i only wrote the losses to address only the actual damages related to a covered peril until an examiner called one day and informed me of the following: "If there is wind damage exceeding a patch repair requirement, you should allow for the particular slope to be changed. Old shingles that are overlapping with covered damages may cause further ensuing damage after repair, as they will have to be lifted and tampered with". After this examiner informed me of this i started writing them this way, when it applies, and have sent many in to many different examiners. I have yet to be called about it. Now this is not probably how every carrier views this situation, but mine thus far has. It's just like to different adjusters handling the same loss, there reports may be similar, but most of the time they will have varying differences. Same for carriers and examiners IMO. After all they have final payment determination.

Sorry i did not put emphasis on what i mean by "old shingles". I am refering to shingles that or in the same condition as peanut brittle and such, and will not reseal and will most likley break when tampered with. If the shingle will reseal then of course they can  remain.

Yep - there certainly are lots of opinions out there, and you have to choose your battles.

All of us have seen shingles so deteriorated and brittle that they are already falling apart, have "thermal cracking" and there are issues with repairing it. Kind of like an old deteriorated fence, if it just rotted at the posts and fell over there would be no coverage. It was lucky it fell when there was a strong documented wind storm, so there would be coverage (subject to depreciation).

I have heard roofers say "any roof older than X years old is not repairable" and that is just wrong. They are in the business of selling a roof. Even with the same house, you may find the slope facing the sun is fried, and the other slope is pliable.

Let's say it's your roof that needs a small patch, and you have no insurance, you have to spend your own money. The roof is 8 years old, not terribly brittle. A reasonable person may use a tool like this to do the repair:

You can buy this tool for $30 and it prevents you from having to lift the shingles above the repair very far.  I am not selling these, but just providing info, you can find more info here (or do a search for "roof snake")

Again you have to choose your battles, and if the roof needs to be replaced, or borderline and you can side with the Insured, that's great. If you think the roof is repairable, and someone argues about not "re-sealing" around an isolated repair, that is what a tube of Henry's mastic is for. I am not talking about re-sealing a huge region or trying to do a cheap repair - but these are options you weigh depending on the degree of damage (isolated hit vs random throughout the whole slope or roof) and the previous condition of the roof.

In other words, if I think the roof is repairable, and I know the storm manager is going to say it is repairable from the photos, yet the roofer is saying the tabs won't reseal when they are separated to do the repair - the roofer may be right.  The seals aren't made to be broken repeatedly, so you simply help them seal by glueing them down around the isolated repair.  A real roofer will already know that, a temporary salesman who was selling cars the week before may be enlightened as to why you value the claim based upon a reasonable scope of needed repairs.