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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2003 : 09:40:31
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Online viewers may want to turn on CNN or CBS now! |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2003 : 10:04:05
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Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated this morning upon reentry from space. Flags have been lowered at NASA. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2003 : 10:09:13
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CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (Feb. 1) - Space shuttle Columbia apparently disintegrated in flames over Texas on Saturday minutes before it was to land in Florida. TV video showed what appeared to be falling debris, as NASA declared an emergency and warned residents to beware of falling objects.
Six Americans and Israel's first astronaut were on board.
In north Texas, people reported hearing ''a big bang'' at about 9 a.m., the same time all radio and data communication with the shuttle was lost.
Television stations showed what appeared to be flaming debris falling through the sky, and NASA warned Texas residents to beware of any falling objects. NASA also announced that search and rescue teams were being mobilized in the Dallas and Fort Worth areas.
Inside Mission Control, flight controllers hovered in front of their computers, staring at the screens. The wives, husbands and children of the astronauts who had been waiting at the landing strip were gathered together by NASA and taken to secluded place.
''A contingency for the space shuttle has been declared,'' Mission Control repeated over and over as no word or any data came from Columbia.
In 42 years of U.S. human space flight, there had never been an accident during the descent to Earth or landing. On Jan. 28, 1986, space shuttle Challenger exploded shortly after liftoff.
On Jan. 16, shortly after Columbia lifted off, a piece of insulating foam on its external fuel tank came off and was believed to have struck the left wing of the shuttle. Leroy Cain, the lead flight director in Mission Control, assured reporters Friday that engineers had concluded that any damage to the wing was considered minor and posed no safety hazard.
Columbia had been aiming for a landing at 9:16 a.m. Saturday.
It was at an altitude of 207,000 feet over north-central Texas at a 9 a.m., traveling at 12,500 mph when Mission Control lost contact and tracking data.
Gary Hunziker in Plano said he saw the shuttle flying overhead. ''I could see two bright objects flying off each side of it,'' he told The Associated Press. ''I just assumed they were chase jets.''
''I was getting ready to go out and I heard a big bang and the windows shook in the house,'' Ferolito told The AP. ''I thought it was a sonic boom.''
Security had been tight for the 16-day scientific research mission because of the presence of Ilan Ramon, the first Israeli astronaut.
Ramon, a colonel in Israel's air force and former fighter pilot, became the first man from his country to fly in space, and his presence resulted in an increase in security, not only for Columbia's launch, but also for its planned landing. Space agency officials feared his presence might make the shuttle more of a terrorist target.
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's office said it had no immediate comment.
Columbia's crew had completed 80-plus scientific research experiments during their time in orbit.
Just in the last week, NASA observed the anniversary of its only two other space tragedies, the Challenger explosion, which killed all seven astronauts on board, and Apollo space craft fire that killed three on Jan. 27, 1967. |
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Dadx9
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2003 : 16:47:28
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Another reason for all of us to "Seize the Day".
This unfortunate event could be interesting for some adjusters. A tough assignment. I'd be interested in hearing from any local folks who might get the call.
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Don "To be held in the heart of a friend is to be a king." Bruce Cockburn |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2003 : 21:23:55
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Manned space flights are incredibly stupid. Unless NASA failed to notify the 7 that a peice of debris hit the shuttle on take off they knew for several days that they would die on reentry. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2003 : 14:06:25
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If they had known, and I hope they didn't, the only option would have been to send up the other shuttle and retrieve them. If they knew, that was manslaughter and those people were sacrificed to save the cost of sending up another craft. They had lost tiles before and only had minor concerns, but this time was different with a devistating loss of good people. We may never know what actually happened. |
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Tom Toll
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2003 : 17:13:56
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It would have been impossible for NASA to know the tiles were damaged by a piece of insulation material that breached on lift off. I have known the NASA program for many many years and have friends there. I have been a pilot since the age of 13 and still hold a pilots license, and will as long as I am physically able. I was a member of the International Society for Air Saftey Investigators for many years. Being an airman is like being a CADO member. All are family and they do not jeoporadize each others lives for the sake of expense. No one has ever been sacrificed in the NASA program. The Feds cut spending, which put a real hardship on many, guess they need the money for free hand outs and war. I have flown and have jumped many times from a perfectly flying aircraft. Some say, Toll, you are crazy as hell for taking those risks. No sir, I am not crazy as hell, my life is full and thankfully having found, and been fortunate enough to find the perfect wife, my life is complete and full. Life is full of risks. When you jump, fly, drive, or wake up in the morning, your life is at risk. We should not and cannot allow fear to control our souls, or we are lost. Be brave, be positive, be thankful you are what you are and that your visit on earth will be fulfilling, fruitful, and benefical to others. May the master of the universe look upon you and give all of you courage to be what you can be withour fear. |
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Tom Toll
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2003 : 17:13:58
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It would have been impossible for NASA to know the tiles were damaged by a piece of insulation material that breached on lift off. I have known the NASA program for many many years and have friends there. I have been a pilot since the age of 13 and still hold a pilots license, and will as long as I am physically able. I was a member of the International Society for Air Saftey Investigators for many years. Being an airman is like being a CADO member. All are family and they do not jeoporadize each others lives for the sake of expense. No one has ever been sacrificed in the NASA program. The Feds cut spending, which put a real hardship on many, guess they need the money for free hand outs and war. I have flown and have jumped many times from a perfectly flying aircraft. Some say, Toll, you are crazy as hell for taking those risks. No sir, I am not crazy as hell, my life is full and thankfully having found, and been fortunate enough to find the perfect wife, my life is complete and full. Life is full of risks. When you jump, fly, drive, or wake up in the morning, your life is at risk. We should not and cannot allow fear to control our souls, or we are lost. Be brave, be positive, be thankful you are what you are and that your visit on earth will be fulfilling, fruitful, and benefical to others. May the master of the universe look upon you and give all of you courage to be what you can be withour fear. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 08:01:42
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I worked with NASA people on two occasions, we televised the first manned orbit, and secondly while assigned as Supt Of Comm Support for The President. NASA was called in if our staff found anything wrong with Nav Aids and the local agency couldn't handle it quick enough. One of my men was offered a job at NASA and took it, with my blessing. It was a great opportunity and our work was boring. I loved flying for a while and got too busy and somehow got separated from it due to location and work. Back to the shuttle, the NASA people are practical,and very exacting in what they do. They don't take chances. The press will bring in people who were former employees that had quit or been fired and use their testimony as expert. By the time they get through it will be hard to figure out what happened from our vantage point. If the tiles were at fault or it was some sort of sonic shock, we may never know. I am sure the sensor failure will give them some understanding of what happened and the complexity of what goes on there is way above a news anchors ability to grasp. They will piece this puzzle together and have a pretty good idea of the sequence of events. The press don't report news, they try to form public oppinion to their beliefs. Let me tell you, the ones I have known have some wierd ideas. You are right, airmen, and I include old ham radio operators are a close knit family, just as we try to be here. I have been a ham radio operator for about fifty years and know people all over the world who I consider good friends. I have met hundreds of them, I know I have had fifty or sixty here at one time, in campers, motorhomes and tents, we had get togethers all over the country. CADO is young, but has all the possibilities of becomming a brotherhood that you and I understand. Its not there yet, in my oppinion, but we can see the light.
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Tom Toll
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 10:13:29
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I wrote a paper for ISASI on in flight structural failure many years ago. My concern about the shuttle craft has always been harmonic distortional failure, due to vibrational occurances during lift off and re-entry. Aluminum is a light weight product, but like all metals, is subject to harmonic failures. At a certain vibration level, molecules of the metals can separate, allowing a possible failure. There is no way to accurately find these weaknesses without destructive testing. Non destructive dye checks can be misleading in that they may not exhibit all cracking or metal fatigue. In fact, one failure was found by a NASA employee by eyeballing and feeling it. This was immediately corrected by NASA. This is just a part of the risk factor in a ship that has been used for an extended period of time. Flying in space is a risky business at best.
I, like most americans, feel for the families of the adventurers on Columbia. They ventured beyond what the normal human would and with pride, knowing that their lives could be lost. Some feel the space program is a waste of taxpayer dollar. The laptop you are now using was developed by NASA in their minaturazatiion program. Many, many developments from NASA are being used today by civil society, so no, NASA is not a waste of taxpayer dollars. Manned flight is the only way to control a ships behavior and environment. Many projects are sent up with each mission to accomplish new research in non gravitational environments.
Chuck does not think manned flight is necessary. May I ask him who or what should be at the controls and who or what should perform the thousands of experiments performed in non gravitational envoronments. That answer should be interesting. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 11:43:58
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Great posts Tom. I would also like to point out that althought the orbiters were designed for 100 flights each, it was expected that that would be on a schedule with a 2 week turnaround, so those 100 flights would be accomplished in slightly more than 8 years if you figure 1-2 weeks per mission (1 mission per month). The Columbia was 24 years old, it didn't fly until '81 but it construction of the vehicle was completed in '79. Think about that for a minute. Even if you took the best possible care of your '79 F-150 pickup, would it still be as reliable today as it was the day you bought it? Maybe this is the wake up call that we all need that it is time to step up production of the next generation orbiter. There are so many benefits that we can achieve from work on the space program. Perhaps it's time to form a public/private space agency. Sell stock, quit giving away the benefits of the space program for next to nothing and start capitalizing on them. Nasa sells rights to its patents all the time for far less than they are worth and the purchasors of those patents go on to make millions and millions off of them. Why can't Nasa produce and market velcro, instead of letting someone else make all the money off of it? Just some random and rambling thoughts. |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 17:22:37
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I have to say that I really don't know much about NASA and space flights per se, but I do know a little about human reaction time. It is impossible for a human to control a vehicle that is moving at 17000 miles per hour. That is done by a computer. I suspect that almost all aspects of a manned space flight are computer controlled and that control could come from the ground. As for experiments, most industrial processes, here on terra firma, are computer controlled and automatic. Why then does the same sort of process require human intervention in space. 7 of the brightest and the best left wives, husbands, mothers and children to be killed for reasons that are not apparent to me.
I think that Tom is, at once, right and wrong. The insulation did damage the shuttle and NASA knew it. As Tom has been flying since he was 13, he knows something about laminar air flow and what even a small scratch on the wing of the shuttle would cause at 17000 miles per hour even in the rarified air at the edge of space. Absolute perfection is required to move though air at 17000 mph.
Would someone tell me about some benefit or thing they have gotten from the space program? |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 18:52:05
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Chuck,
It didn't take me long to do a search on NASA inventions. Most of NASA's innovations and inventions have been adapted to civilian use rather than transferring directly, like Tang. Lots of the advancements have been made in the field of materials science and electronics. The satelite dish over which I recieve Direct TV is based on NASA pioneered technology. Advances in aeronautical design have come about from NASA wind tunnel tests. Cordless tools, special welding goggles, Magnetic Resonance Imaging, Plastics, smoke detectors, the ear thermometer, and countless other gadgets that make our lives safer, easier and more enjoyable are all attributed to the space program. |
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Janice Toll
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 20:50:50
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Chuck, no one is asking you to go in to space, but I'd be willing to bet you a cold one (iced tea, that is) that not one of the seven who had that opportunity would have traded places with you or me, even knowing that they might not come back. |
Janice R. Martin-Toll |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2003 : 21:33:12
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I wonder about the sensors, if they were stress sensors or combination heat/stress I imagine they will have an idea of what happened, when they analyze the data. At the speed of reentry there may be some oscilation at a certain speed. That would put a lot of stress on the superstructure and the resulting metal fatigue. They have had problems with tiles comming off before with out a disaster of this magnatude. |
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