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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2003 : 22:23:34
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On one of my insurance e-news subscriptions, I received the following blurp today.
"ISO Inc's property claims services unit estimates that US insurers will pay out about $1.2 billion from a winter storm that hit 10 states earlier this month. Insurers have an estimated three hundred and eighty six thousand (386,000) claims, including about 285,000 claims worth about $885 million in Texas. Missouri's insured losses were second highest at $110 million."
Using your networks, first hand and second hand knowledge; how many field cat adjusters were deployed, and what piece of the 386,000 claims did they handle?
Is the "field" even getting 10%? |
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kwsmith
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2003 : 23:22:35
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| crawford got some of that, and think eberls did also. don't know about any others. |
kwsmith |
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John McMennamy
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 06:56:22
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Clayton from my umderstandings from adjusters assigned to the Dallas storm. All five venders sent about 60 adjusters, about 300 total, to Dallas. I've heard any where from 75 to 150 claims per adjuster. From what I hear through the grapevine, some have already been released with more being released this week. It seems that the claims are winding down.
Johnny Mac |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 09:30:40
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Thanks, Ken and Johnny for your input.
This is an interesting puzzle, that I am not sure of how to find the corner pieces, to allow the big picture to develop. It is the big picture that I hope will emerge, from this examination.
What I hope that does not enter into this - until the big picture is complete - is a critique of 'who' or 'why', or 'how many'.
I brought this - opening post - information forward as a thread because I think it could or should serve as a benchmark, as how things 'unfold' in the big picture following a sizeable storm event. I think if we appraoch it that way, then later there may be some useful observations and considerations to be made. I recognize that there may be difficulty (for a number of reasons) in reporting data, but I think this could be a beneficial exercise for both cat vendors and cat adjusters.
Johnny has given us a start on the Texas claim numbers - 285,000 as reported by ISO - as follows;
5 vendors x 60 adjusters each = 300 adjusters
300 adj x 75 files ea (min) = 22,500 claims
or, 8% of the Texas ISO total
or, 6% of the ISO total
300 adj x 150 files ea (max) = 45,000 claims
or, 16% of the Texas ISO total
or, 12% of the ISO total
I'll take one known - there is only six basic ways that the 'pie' can be shared (to account for at least 98% of the total), as follows;
(1) cat claim vendors and their cat field adjusters
(2) carrier cat claim call centers
(3) carrier field staff cat claim personnel
(4) carrier direct PV programs
(5) 'day to day' I/A vendors and their I/A adjusters
(6) carrier 'day to day' staff claims personnel
Starting at the back end - carrier 'day to day' staff claims personnel, during an ISO event. Part of the purpose of an ISO declared cat event allows carriers to 'transfer' these claims costs (direct and indirect) from day to day figures and from their day to day staff. The benefits of that, plus the regular day to day claim volumes; would put this group at the bottom regarding the volume of the ISO event that they would directly handle. I'm reasonably confident that regional claims managers for carriers in affected areas, with moderate exposure to the event and greater; would do what was required to keep those claims away from the regular 'day to day' staff people.
Next lowest volume group, I think, would be 'day to day' I/A vendors and their I/A adjusters. They would get some core regional support, more likely from carriers with smaller ISO event claims numbers.
Therefore, at the bottom end of an ISO cat event food chain, subject to input from others; I see carrier 'day to day' staff claims personnel, and 'day to day' I/A vendors and their I/A adjusters.
The next group, I think are the 'middle feeders' on the food chain relative to their volume of the event - carrier field staff cat claims personnel, and carrier direct PV programs. I have no information or estimation of the kind of overall numbers they would take from the event in question. However, I do think it is more than the two at the bottom, and less than the two on the top; overall in the big picture.
The top two feeders, who would get the greatest bulk of the claims overall are - cat claim vendors and their cat claim adjusters, and carrier cat claim call centers.
Based on Johnny's input, an average exposure for cat vendors and their adjusters is offered as shown above. Based on my awareness of some carrier cat claims call centers, and an estimation of their event activity, the combined adjuster count is likely at least 1/3 lower at 200, but the files handled over an approximate three week period would be 200 to 300 each; illustrated as follows.
200 adj x 200 files ea (min) = 40,000 claims
or, 14% of the Texas ISO total
or, 10% of the ISO cat total
200 adj x 300 files ea (max) = 60,000 claims
or, 21% of the Texas ISO total
or, 15% of the ISO cat total
Again, these are only estimations, rough at best, but so far it appears that the two "leading" methods of handling ISO cat event claims has accounted for only;
22% to 37% of the Texas ISO total
16% to 27% of the ISO cat total
Can anyone from the six sectors of service, or otherwise, provide any more data to make the numbers more substantive? |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 11:22:29
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Clayton,
I think it may be helpful to both look at and approach your idea from the standpoint of an examination of the larger carriers and their market share within the Texas market.
According to the Texas Department of Insurance, State Farm is the largest carrier in Texas and has 32.90% of the property market (as measured by premiums). Next is Allstate with 12.42%. By the time we get to the 5th largest carrier (USAA) the combined total percentage of the market for these top 5 carriers is 65% of the Texas homeowners market and at the benchmark of the top 7 it rises to 70% and to 75% by the time we total the top ten carriers.
A closer look at the claim numbers and distribution of these claims will probably provide you with at least some direction in finding the answers you are looking for with your approach.
It is an interesting question, and one which can no doubt provide some answers which may be somewhat surprising as well as portending a road map into the future.
A link to the Texas Department of Insurance list of the Top 40 homeowners carriers in their state is enclosed as follows below:
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/general/pdf/00annul4.pdf
I am aware that one of those 'Top Ten' carriers in Texas brought in their carrier staff cat team from all around the country and was going to bring in IA cat adjusters when staff became overwhelmed, but decided at the last minute to use roofers as Preferred Vendors instead for the inspections. C'est la vie! |
Edited by - JimF on 04/29/2003 11:27:57 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 12:22:03
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That's good Jim, thanks. Maybe that will open the doors more to make it easier to apportion the type of claims service method utilized in Texas; which accounted for (285,000) 74% of the total ISO claims noted in the opening post.
The following is a list of carriers writing business in Texas, who in the latest reporting available (as per Jim's link), had at least 1.0% of the written premiums for homeowners coverage.
Insurer
01. State Farm 32.9%
02. Allstate Texas Lloyds 12.4
03. Farmers 9.6
04. Fire Insurance Exchange 6.5
05. United Services 4.4
06. Travellers 4.3
07. Nationwide 2.5
08. USAA 2.3
09. Safeco 2.2
10. Allstate 2.1
11. Chubb 1.8
12. Texas Farm Bureau 1.5
13. Texas Farmers 1.2
14. Republic 1.1
15. Consolidated Lloyds 1.0
16. Hartford 1.0
The actual total of these 16, represents an 87.16% marketshare in homewoners written premium.
Due to the spread of risk and many other factors, it is inaccurate to relate or equate marketshare percentage to the number of claims that may have been received. That is for example, it would not be a fair conclusion to state that #16 Hartford at 1.0%, received 2,850 homewoner claims from the noted event.
Now, from those among us who have some knowledge of how the carrier's respective share of the ISO cat event noted was handled - what type or types of claim service method utilized - please share that with us. Then we will rework the figures and divisions further.
Perhaps to make the flow and level of information easier, I should note that I am not looking for the names of vendors in any of the possible service methods utilized; mention them if you want for interest. Identify the service method by the six types I noted, or add another; and provide what information you can.
If you are concerned about your identity relative to any information you may want to provide, send me a PM or email; I guarantee your confidentiality. |
Edited by - CCarr on 04/29/2003 12:37:51 |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 17:39:25
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Clayton, I think I see where you want to go with this analysis, but am confused with your choice of road and choice of vehicle.
Would not a comparasion of each of the top ten carriers operations in this storm present a representative view of the industry trends? I suspect that John's intelligence was based on only one carrier, such as Big Red or Good Hands or even The Big FIG. 300 adjusters sounds like a typical turnout for a Big Red event, not the entire industry. Might I suggest a chart like device to compare the carriers methods as to who got pie and who got the crust?
If the carriers are going to abrogate their responsibility to properly serve the customer by using phone adjusters 4 states away or the sweetheart deal roofers and contractors, then we need to legislate the way business should be done. And...(Oh, boy, here it comes again!), you know what that means.
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kwsmith
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 18:18:58
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| unless they've changed procedures, i think you can take texas farm bureau completely out of the picture in so far as independants go. last i knew, they still relied just about exclusively on staff adusters to handle cats, bringing in farm bureau staff fromn other areas as needed. at one time, even when they did use an independant, they were paying something like $75/day plus motel and photos.... |
kwsmith |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 20:10:39
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Thanks Ken for the info on the Texas Farm Bureau. Subject to any other specific input on them, we will allocate all their ISO event claims to the 6th noted service method - "carrier day to day staff claims personnel".
Johnny, can you give us any more detail on the numbers you presented? Can you relate any of the info you got to any of the noted 16 carriers?
"Buster, I think I'm heading in the same direction as you note relative to a comparison, but laid out the route like I did, hoping for maximum participation. If others see how "Buster is aligning his thought processes to this trip, and it brings info to mind; bring it on.
Please, lets try and keep the abrogation and opinions out of this 'fact finding' mission; or we will never get what we need to see the big picture.
I've got a couple of emails with some input, which I'll add in my own words tomorrow; to protect the sources. |
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WILDANGEL
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 06:08:27
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| My understanding from friends working Texas is almost all of the Crawford people are "Core" it's getting harder everyday! |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 07:31:31
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Okay, no editorial commentary untill the facts are in. Clayton's right, it ain't time yet.
Perhaps if all our field correspondents would please advise from each vendor and carrier how many troops are there, that would help.
Clayton thanks you for your cooperation and participation. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 09:32:12
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Hey, "Wildangel" (that pleasantly reminds me of the old and great Peter Fonda classic), thanks for your note. Which insurer(s) are your friends (Crawford 'core')- working Texas - reporting to?
The following is a summary of information received from a few others, that is relative to the opening post; presented as a "top 16" update - to see where and where not - data is available. It is obvious, reviewing this emerging data, that it lacks specifics, and that it has little info on the "numbers" needed to create the big picture.
You may not like my statement, but you people as independent business men and women - do not know much about your marketplace and the competition within your marketplace. That factor, is a critical success point in any business pursuit.
1. State Farm
method - cat vendors and what other method(s)? Which of these 5 cat vendors got any & how many adj (property only) were deployed - Worley, Crawford, Pilot, Eberl, Renfroe?
2. Allstate Texas Lloyds
no data presented. What is the relationship of this entity to #10? Would the same "methods" be used?
3. Farmers
methods - 2 maybe 3 cat vendors, names unknown.
adj #s / claim #s - u/k
4. Fire Insurance Exchange
no data presented?? This is a 6.5% marketshare
5. United Services
no data presented??
6. Travellers
method - staff day to day, I/A day to day vendors, cat vendor. Reported that Worley was assigned 3,500 claims. No adjuster numbers or overall claim numbers provided
7. Nationwide
method - staff cat, cat vendors, PV programs. 2 cat vendors, RAC and another. A +/- 30 staff cat team suggested, all other numbers u/k
8. USAA
method - staff, cat vendors. Is the staff - day to day, or staff cat, or both? RJMW plus another cat vendor. Splits on former u/k. Conflicting reports that 9 day to day I/A vendors being used, no numbers available.
9. Safeco
method - generally even split - staff and cat vendors. Eberl and one other cat vendor. No numbers provided
10. Allstate
method - carrier cat claim call center, staff cat, Pilot cat vendor. Is there another cat vendor? No numbers of claims or adjusters provided.
11. Chubb
method - suggested that day to day I/A vendors exclusively. No names, adjuster or claim numbers provided
12. Texas Farm Bureau
no data provided??
13. Texas Farmers
no data provided??
14. Republic
no data provided??
15. Consolidated lloyds
no data provided??
16. Hartford
method - cat vendor only? Exclusive to RJMW? No adj or claim numbers provided.
Smaller Carriers than above
Several reports received that I/As are being engaged direct - without a vendor - to handle assigned claims. These are relationships that are established pre-cat.
Please review, fill in the gaps, offer and support corrections if needed; either by posting or send me a PM or email to protect your identity, if needed.
I am surprised, in a disappointing way, in the lack of interest (I guess more specifically it is the lack of greater participation past a few people) in exploring the theme of the thread from the opening post - "how many field cat adjusters were deployed ...." relative to this significant ISO event; with 285,000 claims in Texas.
If this "exploration" is done properly, and if the data is credible and sufficient in depth; this could become a useful benchmark tool for both cat vendors and cat adjusters.
All my years with a carrier, and all the 15 years beyond that as an independent business person, it has always been pounded into my head - "know your marketplace and the competition within that marketplace". The lack of data coming in, especially the lack of "numbers", means people either don't care or don't know. Neither of those two possibilities bodes well for any consideration you may have for the future of your individual business development.
This thread will die a natural death, if credible and sufficient data is not forthcoming; especially with regards to numbers of adjusters deployed and numbers of claims.
There is no summary or observations to be made, that are of any value or credibility; with the current minimal available data. |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 09:58:17
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| Farmers and Fire Insurnace Exchange and possible Texas Farmers are one and the same with the names beng changed for political reasons. I heard of 1 vendor for Farmers maybe as many as 200 cat adjusters followed by a flood of staff people with most of the Cat guys and gals sent home with under 60 files. Both Alstates would be Pilot. Does Crawford still do Cat work? The silence has been defining. Never have seen so many North Carolina vehicles since Floyd, all with USAA signs. Met several from Ebrels doing State Farm, they all have lot of files. |
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John McMennamy
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 17:59:49
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Ghost was right and I should have stated it was State farm with 300 sent to Dallas.
Johnny Mac |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 20:27:19
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I have received more input today through the various mediums, but still a long ways to go to fill in enough blanks to make it worthwhile.
I need some marketplace info that will be useful for this project a little later. If there is enough input on numbers of claims and adjusters for the "top 16" and misc smaller carriers, might be able to take call center and staff cat averages to add to big picture. Not sure, but it is worth identifying them anyway.
I need to know which carriers have
(a) cat claim call centers
(b) staff cat field personnel
I know the amount of staff for each will vary for many reasons, but I want to pin down who has that capability or resource method.
I started to make a list, but it is pretty short.
(a) cat claim call centers - Allstate, Encompass (I know these 2 are still run separately)
(b) staff cat field personnel - Allstate Group State Farm, Farmers Group, Nationwide, USAA, Safeco
Please give me data to add to this or correct what is noted.
I'll do another "top 16" update in the morning. I'm just the scribe, so a sincere thank you to all those participating. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 22:12:22
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What's wrong folks?
Why are people not providing input for the required information of this worthwhile project?
It is a project for your benefit. We are here to help each other.
This is one of the few topics or projects that has a joint use to both cat vendors and cat adjusters.
Looking at the participation analytically, with about 353 read "hits" in 48 hours - between posts, PM, and email; between all of us there has only been 12 different contributors. That is less than 4%.
Come on, before the thread fizzles or gets sidetracked - the information on the numbers is out there.
Your confidentiality is secure via a PM or email, guaranteed.
Lets keep to the topic and do something to complete this project. |
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Topic |
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How was the pie split - who handled the claims?
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