| Author | Message | ||
| Darryl Martin
Registered User Username: Darryl Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2001 |
I, like Chuck am familiar with the basics of copywriting. It appears to this untrained eye that it still becomes a matter of fact for a court. If anyone has attempted and succeeded or failed, their story would be enlightening. Also the cost of such litigation would be interesting. Here's hoping we get a real life example, not just law cites and paraphrasing. | ||
| John Durham
Member Username: Johnd Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2000 |
Chuck: Anything you write has an AUTOMATIC copyright attached. You do not have to put the (c) copyright notice on a document to receive this protection. You could if you wish put a (c) Copyright notice on your estimates etc., by using the estimating software program that allows you to place standardized notes on the bottom (or end) of the estimate. From this point on your copyright material is OWNED BY YOU. You sell the rights to use this material, much the same as an author sells the rights to use (read) a book. You do not purchase the ownership of the book manuscript, just the right to read the words on the pages. If someone does not pay you the agreed fees for using your copyright material you have the litigation recourse and in certain instances (to my understanding) you can actually have a sheriff confiscate the copyright material that has been obtained illegally. I would not attempt any of the preceeding without GOOD legal counsel. When I was in the software business, I did use this avenue several times to retrieve "pirated" software, and software that had not been paid for by less than honest "customers." I believe that an individual in Georgia has used this "defense" to obtain payment of adjusting fees; however, I do not know his name. This "defense" will probably not "sway" most vendors, but you can be sure that it will cause lights to flash in the carriers office, who is the ultimate user of your work product. Think of yourself as an independent "writer" who submits his "manuscript/estimate" for review and payment and you will get the overall picture. I would suggest retaining an attorney or calling a legal help line to have them refer you to an attorney who specializes in the copyright statutes for additional help. Nothing here should be considered legal advice. GOOD LUCK... please share your findings with the CADO group. Maybe Roy will start a different thread for this discussion for easy future access by those in need. | ||
| Chuck Deaton
Member Username: Chuckdeaton Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2002 |
This notion regarding using the assertion of a copyright as a tool to collect an unpaid fee bill intrigues me. Would anyone who has attempted this, with or without success, please share the story. | ||
| Darryl Martin
Registered User Username: Darryl Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2001 |
Curiosity has finally gotten the best of me. I noticed in the past and again in this discussion the mentioning of the fact that when we write an estimate as an adjuster it is a copywrited entity and therefore protected. I admit I have limited knowledge of these sort of things but can anyone give me the case law cite or information that shows the veracity of these statements. If true, I would like to enlighten other independents and also do an article for our company newspaper on this. Thanks for any help you can give | ||
| Jim Flynt
Registered User Username: Jimflynt Post Number: 267 Registered: 6-2001 |
Not to bastardize a word, but Clayton, it sounds like you have been 'Boyled' in oil. I concur with those who are suggesting you bring the carrier into the discussion if you are going to have much chance for recovery of your lost wages short of a lawsuit. Thanks for sharing your story, and everyone needs to etch this vendor into their permanent memory so they don't get 'Boyled' too. | ||
| John Durham
Registered User Username: Johnd Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2000 |
Wong: Thank you. I have worked for CNA and Encompass many times over the years, but not with Art Boyle. My exposure to them has been with Reliable Adjusting company. I was very well pleased with both Reliable and Encompass and found them both to be one of the best I have ever worked claims for both being quite honorable. | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 122 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mark did you mean blissful? As I said, ignorance is bliss.......... How well you prove my point. (Message edited by dwongwhey on April 26, 2002) | ||
| mark salmon
Registered User Username: Olderthendirt Post Number: 168 Registered: 12-2000 |
I do understand your position John, but if you are right then we are really employees of the insurer. Wong so glad you are blissfull  | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 121 Registered: 10-2001 |
John, Encompass Insurance Company is new brand name for the old CNA Personal Insurance Company and is based in the Chicago area. For more information check out the Encompass Insurance Company website at http://www.encompassinsurance.com/ It is a fairly well known fact among adjusters that Boyle was serving as a vendor for this carrier. | ||
| John Durham
Registered User Username: Johnd Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2000 |
Mark (Olderthandirt): I agree with you 110% regarding the Pilot overtime lawsuit. You keep returning to that argument. We all know we are 1099 employees. HOWEVER This scenario is different.. the Vendor is acting as an AGENT for the carrier... the vendor is under the direct control of the carrier... the vendor is a "de facto" agent of the carrier. The carrier has the ability, upon notification, to withhold any more payments to the vendor and remit the monies owed to the individual adjusters per se. I would bet anything that the carrier, if put on notice by the adjusters, would, without hesitation pay the adjusters the sums of money that was purloined by the vendor. Mark, when you complete a claim, your work is a copyright product, destined for the CARRIER'S USE to settle the claim. Use of this product without payment to the adjuster could lead to litigation whereby the carrier would lose. This is totally different from the scenario you allude to where "adjusters" are trying to get something for nothing from the vendor or carrier. If the carrier is who others hint it may be, there will probably be no problem as they have a sparkling reputation for promptly paying their invoices and going the "extra mile" for their independent adjusters. IMHO | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 120 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mark you might as well wear a shirt with the words KICK ME on the back. And they say that ignorance is bliss........ | ||
| Jennifer Sabin
Registered User Username: Kitchenista Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2002 |
If memory serves me correctly, Allstate is contractually obligated to use Pilot for all of their catastrophe services where a vendor is involved. Can anyone confirm this information? | ||
| mark salmon
Registered User Username: Olderthendirt Post Number: 167 Registered: 12-2000 |
First I wouldn't blame the carrier because the vendor went broke or died or whatever. I have worked for small vendors on occassion, I accepted and understood the risk. It is often a pleasure to deal with the more person relation ship when you are not just another number (warm body) on the list. I have also worked where the carrier took forever to pay and I had to wait for my money. ( I was not happy) I am a 1099 contractor because I take risks, I do not expect the benefits and protections I had when I was 9 to 5 wage slave. I was on the list for the Pilot suit and wrote and told them to stuff their settlement. I had been paid fairly for the work I did. This attitude is a threat to our way of life. John when the vendor is paid the carrier has met there payment obligations to you. (Message edited by olderthendirt on April 25, 2002) | ||
| John Durham
Registered User Username: Johnd Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2000 |
Olderthandirt: Mark, while I disagree with you, how would you handle or explain the liability of the Carrier for using "Copyright" materials obtained from the adjuster, who has every right to demand payment for their use? IMHO, this is not a cut-and-dried scenario as put forth by Clayton. Mark, I know you are an experienced "oldtimer" could you please tell us what you would do in this instance or similar instance. Thanks.... | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 119 Registered: 10-2001 |
And Mark that is what the courts are for........ | ||
| mark salmon
Registered User Username: Olderthendirt Post Number: 166 Registered: 12-2000 |
You might win a law suit, maybe. But please refer to that stupid suit against Pilot in california where the class action resulted in people who worked an ice storm in Penn. being able to collect over time. Every time we prove we are not 1099 contractors but employees we threaten our whole way of life. I do not blame the carrier if I make a mistake in the vendor I work for. I want my freedom to choose, and for those who don't they do not belong in cat adjusting, there are lots of company jobs out there. There are plenty of times carriers are to blame, let's not invent new ones. It is sad when a vendor even a small one gets in trouble, I guess that is what has happened (the Boyle website is not working today) It is even sadder for the adjusters who lose money, but that is part of the risk we take for the freedom we have. | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mark suppose a cat adjuster was injured "on the job" while working inside the carrier's cat center and the vendor did not have worker's comp insurance provided for these cat adjusters. Do you think there would be any legal liabililty on the part of the carrier for the injuries sustained by the injured "worker" or would the cat adjuster/"worker" just be SOL? With regard to the relevancy of the carrier, I suggest it would behoove you to examine potential relationships and obligations which the carrier might have to an aggrieved cat adjuster/"worker" as it relates to tort. It seems to me that a strong case can be made for negligence on the part of the carrier in choosing a vendor who is either financially shaky, morally bankrupt or otherwise unable or unwilling to pay the cat adjuster, and in a court of law, the plaintiff cat adjuster would and will be successful in recovery for his pay from the carrier if not the vendor. That would ENCOMPASS what IS my theory on THE tort responsibililty for this CARRIER in this situation. If anyone is going to "know before they go", it is imperative that they do their homework beforehand. I did and it shows in a preceding paragraph for those who want all the facts. (Message edited by dwongwhey on April 25, 2002) (Message edited by dwongwhey on April 25, 2002) (Message edited by dwongwhey on April 25, 2002) | ||
| Clayton Carr
Registered User Username: Clayton Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2001 |
D Wong, I do apologize to you for my "curtness", for want of a better term. But, I am trying to both tell others and seek help / answers from others, relevant to the situation presented; which is not your 50 adjuster scenario. You were quick with a response to my original post, only in the form of a one line question; before you edited you response and it showed up later. I still don't see the need to name the carrier at this time, and I restate that I do realize where they may / could / would / should evolve in this situation. However, first, I would gladly work for this carrier again and may well in the future (with the changed vendor). Second, there are still two men working this assignment at the carrier cat office (with the changed vendor). This is not now a situation where a carrier asks a vendor for a number of adjusters - it was but is not now. When their needs increase, they activate who has been trained on their systems by them and who has proven to be acceptable to them, due to past performance. If their needs exceeded "known ' previously been there / available" adjusters; I'm sure they would go to their chosen vendors and seek new people. All this has nothing / little to do with what has happened. For you to then quickly come back and say "Allsnake", I feel is / was inappropriate. The issue is - I and at least three others have been corned. I chose to let the fraternity know and asked two questions - which I do hope I'll get some helpful guidance on in reply. | ||
| mark salmon
Registered User Username: Olderthendirt Post Number: 165 Registered: 12-2000 |
Wong is Wrong, Carrier name may be interesting but not relavent. In the case you projected, a new vendor would have to pick up the 50 adjsuters (as happened with Boyle) and the pay on unbilled time (and possibley billed but not paid time) would go to the new vendor, and the 50 lucky adjusters would have to deal with the estate for lost earnings. It would not be the responsiblity of the carrier. That is my understanding | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2001 |
Now now Clayton, just calm down. Don't take everything here so personally. If you are going to share your story and complain to the CADO audience, then why not tell the rest of the story. The carrier has/had a role in this too. While you may not initially agree with that comment, look at the following scenario: 50 adjusters go out on an assignment with ABC Adjusting to work for XYZ Carrier. ABC is a vendor which is owned by one individual. 6 weeks into the assignment, Mr Alpha (the owner of ABC Vending) is suddenly and accidentally killed in an automobile accident. He leaves no heirs and there is no one back at his office to continue the operation or even to receive and pay bills. Do you think that XYZ Carrier is going to send the 50 very needed adjusters home from this catastrophe just because ABC is no longer in operation? Do you think that XYZ Carrier is going to let these 50 adjusters suffer from loss of legally and rightfully earned wages for several weeks of pay because Mr. Alpha dies? While you may disagree, I think it is important to bring the carrier into the picture and to let cat adjusters know the final outcome of this event. If Boyle doesn't step up to the plate and do what is right, then the carrier in my opinion has an obligation to do so, or at least we all should know how they envision cat adjusters being treated. Since you say there were a total of 4 cat adjusters who were adversely affected by Mr. Boyle's misconduct, rest assured the facts will come to light. There is no way in heck that stories remain secret when 4 adjusters are privy to it. I'm sorry we see the world from two very different perspectives and things with two very different lenses. And once you posted your complaint here publicly, it did in fact become everyone's right and OBLIGATION to know ALL of the FACTS. (Message edited by dwongwhey on April 25, 2002) | ||
| Clayton Carr
Registered User Username: Clayton Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2001 |
D Wong, NO IT IS NOT. If you do not have something useful or factual to say, stay the hell out of it. | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 114 Registered: 10-2001 |
Sounds like Allsnake to me. | ||
| Clayton Carr
Registered User Username: Clayton Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2001 |
D Wong, I am not going to name the carrier at this time, I do realize where they may / could / would / should evolve in this scenario; but I don't see the need for their name at this time. The cat center is in Illinois. | ||
| D Wong Whey
Registered User Username: Dwongwhey Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2001 |
Clayton who was the carrier and in what state was their cat center located? I think it is safe to say that every cat adjuster should mark Art Boyle and Boyle International off of the list of acceptable vendors to work for and with. Such crappy business practices should be shunned and shamed by all of us. Clayton, thanks for posting this valuable information which can and should prevent other cat adjusters from being hurt by such unscrupulous behavior. (Message edited by dwongwhey on April 25, 2002) | ||
| Clayton Carr
Registered User Username: Clayton Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2001 |
I am compelled, due to disgust and disdain for a vendor to speak out; to provide a heads up to our fraternity and to humby ask "how do you really know, before you go?" Art Boyle, via Boyle International Claim Management Group, Inc., and / or Boyle International Claim Mgt. Group, LLC (as it is printed on his stationary); has defaulted on payment of monies owing to myself and at least three other people for an amount in excess of $19,000.00. This includes agreed compensation plus agreed per diem. Adding insult to this is our own incurred costs of getting to the assignment and staying there to fullfill our obligations. I had never worked for Boyle or his company, prior to this year. I was always keen to receive his articulate and interesting emails, for the past 2 to 3 years and have corresponded with him in that way. I had also spoken with him a number of times. At all times prior to a week into this assignment in February 2002, I had grown to respect this man that I had never met. Others that I spoke to that had worked for him in the past, all spoke quite highly of him, his company and of his dealings with adjusters. He presented an opportunity earlier this year, it seemed like a good and progressive fit for the direction I wanted the "cat" portion of my claims career to take. The assignment was at a carrier's cat center, working as independant contractors for the cat center. Each week we would hand our hourly billing sheet to our cat center manager who would sign the sheet agreeing with our hours, we would then fax that sheet to Boyle and he in turn would invoice the carrier for our incurred time and per diem. The carrier was kind enough to accelerate their normal payment cycle to the vendor and paid Boyle regularly, basically in a weekly cycle once the system was established. However, that is where the story turns sour. Boyle was paid regularly for our efforts, but failed to pay us. Attempts in March to communicate with him became more difficult to accomplish, but whenever successful (mostly by email) the stories received ranged from; blaming the flow of money from the carrier, having to wait 5 days for the carrier's check to clear his bank (a red flag), the check is in the mail, the check was sent by courrier - to finally no further communication - save from his wife pleading for our patience and providing distracting but unrelated stories about personal turmoils. We were successful in changing vendors with the help of the carrier and continued in good standing with the carrier in March, and received excellent cooperation and regular payment from the new vendor. However, by the early March, the four of us were out our agreed compensation for varying periods from one week, two weeks, and others much more. We have clearly confirmed that the carrier paid 100% of the money owed to the vendor - Boyle. We have not been paid, and the trail is getting dusty and dark. Boyle's web site has been down about a week and in that time our continuing emails to him are now being returned by our servers noted as "undeliverable". I'm really struggling with what appears to be an intangible item in our pursuit of work, how do you really know, before you go?" Also, any constructive insights or ideas on how we might pursue this matter, would be appreciated. | ||
| R D Hood
Registered User Username: Old_dog Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2002 |
 TIME OUT !!!! It is about time for some to stand and be counted. This old dog has worked side by side with Terry and for CJET and many of his past and some of his present associates since 1995. The last time being 6 months ago in St. Louis, MO. NOT ONE time was I charged for software. NOT ONE time was I charged for instruction.( I even taught for them ) NOT ONE time was there any holdback taken. It is sad to see those that choose to demean anyone or post derogatory and incorrect information. This hurts ALL of us. The facts are simple, not every adjuster can be acceptable to every vendor, just as not every vendor will use every adjuster. ( THAT'S LIFE)  When WE choose whom to work for, thats our option, as is it the option of the vendor to choose whom they wish to have work for them.  It really bothers this old dog, to see this constant bickering and non productive diatribe. There are some that I choose NOT to work for and there are, I'm sure, some that dont want me. Thank you Bill, for your explanation, but for those that KNOW, it was not required, but sincerely appreicated to try and educate others. | ||
| Bob Mitchell
Registered User Username: Adjusterman2002 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2002 |
The Nerve, it has been struck ! ! ! We should all just wait for the "Hurricane". Then the posts will be, "what a great guy everybody it" | ||
| Admin
Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 85 Registered: 1-2002 |
Posted on behalf of Bill Richard. Gentlemen, Gentlemen.... Here.. Here.... I was going to refrain from responding to these unfounded attacks but after the urging of several respected colleagues I have decided to attempt to set the record straight. Please bear with me… A few facts need to be in evidence before all of the idle minds of the UN-named elite post more complaints. Response to Young-N-Dumb, D Wong Whey, Nowthen and others 1). THE PRICES THEY CHARGE THE NEWBIE FOR TRAINING: I, Mr. Richard (No “S”) is not now and never was a corporate officer (“Head knocker”) on the Board of CJET as was eluded to by “D Wong Whey”. I was hired as The Education Administrator in January of 1999 to write a training program. This program was to be a curriculum for courses to train qualified candidates to read and interpret insurance policies, properly identify the appropriate repair techniques necessary to address property damage, and prepare an accurate estimate that reflected the covered damages that were viewed. I did this, and actually administered the training in February through July of 1999 and again in the same time period of 2000. For my efforts, I was promoted to VP of Corporate Claims in March 2000, a title which only identifies me as a member of senior management. After the initial down payment for attendance, which was spread out over the five-month school, the remaining fee for this training was deferred until the training was complete. After 6-8 weeks of initial training, qualified attendees began to receive actual claim assignments where a seasoned adjuster did hands on training. The attendees would actually start receiving a commission on what work they completed at this point. After calculating the cost of training materials, the facility, the facilitator and supervision, the raw cost to CJET Corporation for training the program was between $7,200.00 and $8,000.00 per student by the time we went to North Carolina and sponsored the pre-licensing course. For those who successfully completed the course, CJET would then pay for their first attempt at the State exam. That raw cost was predicated on having at least 12 students per five-month session. (“Come on CJET why do you charge the trainee so much money to work?”) Well, the fact is that while the trainee was still learning, they were covered under our E&O and received 50% with No Holdback because we would basically have to hold their hand and help them close their files. As they progressed and became more independent, their percentage would increase and finally be 65% of gross billing still with No Holdback. The remaining fee for training was to be obtained from the attendees’ future income stream in the Insurance and Property Estimating Fields only. If an attendee decided to move to another field, all training debt was suspended. If the attendee returned to the Insurance and Property Estimating Fields, then they were expected to be forthright and continue payment of the debt. The debt was interest free and the re-payment amount was set at 5% of the billing amount or take home pay. We initially tried training for free and found that the dedication of most individuals was lacking if they had nothing invested in the training. We were trying to curb the influx of untrained, unethical adjusters from the ranks of the Independent Insurance Adjustment arena. Our goal was to fill our ranks with the best-trained individuals in the market but agreed that the attendees were free to work for whomever they chose. We did achieve success in training qualified individuals however, the last 2 years have not been active enough to meet everyone’s financial requirements and some have gone to larger companies, insurance carriers and elsewhere. No training has been offered that requires the attendee to pay for attendance since the class of February 2000. Today, training is offered during evening hours and classes last approximately 8 weeks. We only charge for non-reusable course materials. We provide the facility, the instructor and patience free of charge. 2). The second issue for “young-n-dumb” to chew on is the fact that we give the software away for use by adjusters that are handling our claims. This is currently the case, although we are in the middle of a re-write of our estimating and claims management system and have not set any standards for the new software. (“Crappy Awful”) is how young-n-dumb describes it, and he is entitled to his opinion. This may be attributed to his inability to understand simple instructions. Here are the facts: a). As far as I know, it was the first DOS based estimating package with an interface to windows (access) where the adjuster could input the indicative info from a loss notice in windows and have all the info forced into the DOS estimate. This eliminated redundancy of input. b). I believe that it was also the first to automatically populate a captioned report page with the dollar total from the dwelling estimate, the contents estimate, and the appurtenant structures estimate when these estimates were completed. The information served would reflect the gross and net claims by coverage and total payable with depreciation separated by recoverable and non-recoverable. This was automatically calculated based on the default setup codes that were set prior to starting the claim process. c). I believe that it was also the first to allow claims activity to be tracked without redundant input within the same windows program. d). I believe that it was also the first to allow captioned photo sheets in several formats to be produced, saved, and printed without redundant input within the same windows program. e). The program also provided diagram sheets with all required indicative information concerning the claim. These could be printed and then used for either a hand drawn diagram or used in a printer as a form to produce a diagram that was drawn with another program. f). I believe it was the first program on the Claims Management end that allowed the carrier to access diary entries online and check the claims status of their files. They can actually copy and paste our diary into theirs. There are other features…”Crappy awful” is his opinion. And even though we don’t know who “young-n-dumb” is we suspect that the name fits. The issue of $100.00 bucks. Well, let me see. If a vendor had a contract with one of the top five (5) insurance companies, which stipulated that certain documents would be necessary in order to use an independent adjuster, shame on the vendor for not being in compliance. So, if I need to have 300+ adjusters on standby or at least on a list of adjusters who have been properly, let’s see… 300 x $100.00 = 30,000.00. Our intent is to keep a current form signed by the prospective adjuster that would give us permission to run these checks. This would assume that the adjuster had completed the application without misrepresenting any information. Before we would call the adjuster and ask him to travel to a storm sight, we would charge for this background check. This money is returned to the adjuster in his first commission check if 1). The background check confirmed the information that was given on his application and 2). He arrived within the time allotted to meet his contractual agreement. How many times has an adjuster stated that he will report to a storm center only to get diverted to another site by a competitor or simply decide not to go? Too many times for a small company to absorb and meet their contractual agreements with the carrier they are servicing. We are still in the learning process and will be as this industry changes. 3). This is for “Nowthen”. I, Mr. Richard arrived in Miami in January of 1993 at the request of Mr. Langhorne. We worked for Gay & Taylor as insurance adjusters. I was not a salesperson or a software expert, but served as an adjuster using the software. I did contribute to the estimating concepts and scoping techniques used. Be careful how you use the names of people you have never met or associated with. With that being said, we were always the top producers as far as closures went and ended up with the lowest re-open/supplement ratio. The proof is in the pudding. 4). Lets talk about E&O. I have seen some of the work that the prima donna's in this industry boast about. Frankly, some of it does not even meet the minimum standards that we set at CJET Corporation. Our insurance outlay for the required coverage we have makes it cost prohibitive to provide E&O for Independent Contractors. Bare Facts Of Life! In conclusion, CJET Corporation, incorporated in 1988, was a software development company. In 1997, the powers that be decided that since insurance adjustment had been the financial driving force for the software development, it would change its focus to being an independent insurance adjustment company (vendor). There is not a hard knock that any of you cat adjusters have suffered that we have not personally suffered ourselves. We treat every one we meet in the manner in which we would like to be treated. Not everyone has had a good experience working for us but that is a two-way street. I will venture to say that if you look deep in the mirror at yourself and what you profess to be, you may find a flaw or two that needs work. As long as we all strive to improve ourselves and eliminate the flaws, we are moving forward. I will slide my soapbox back into the closet and resume the pursuit of perfect customer service for the policyholder and the client. As I said, I hate responding to negative posts because I am passionate about our company as well as this industry and tend to get long winded. The moral of this story is “Know before you Post” Respectfully Bill Richard VP Corporate Claims CJET Corporation | ||
| Billr
Registered User Username: Billr Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2001 |
This was posted for Terry Langhorne To Whom It May Concern: CJET Corporation recognizes and appreciates the accurate response made by Mr. Goodman. We agree with the recap of the events in 1992. We still have and use the technology for scanned estimating. The initial training in the use of the scan forms was a stumbling block for the abilities of the adjusters that he spoke of. We still contend that this technology surpasses any other in accuracy and speed of estimate processing. Again, all differences aside, we wish to thank Mr. Goodman for his prompt response to the previous post and commend his accurate recall of the events. Terry W. Langhorne President, CJET Corporation Ps. Was it Benny and the Jets or Benny and the Hogs? | ||
| Jgoodman
Registered User Username: Jgoodman Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2001 |
Anonymous voices carrying tales from the distant past. A few words about 1992. In 1992, I was the only computer talent at CJET. The CJET Scanned Estimating system was my baby. The system was based on optical mark reading technology used to grade the SAT test. (Get out your number 2 pencils). Properly used, to this day, it will produce a large number of large estimates faster than any other estimating method. Scope sheets were filled out in the field to be scanned back at the office. No expensive equipment in the field. Supports many adjusters. But the scope sheets need to be filled out while scoping or the speed advantage is lost. The drawback was the optical mark reader cost $8000.00 to purchase. A new one selling in the $3000.00 range would be available in 1993. In hopes of getting people to see that this was a very efficient method, CJET bought two scanners with the hopes of renting them to make them more cost effective. A CJET partner, with the sales technique of a used car salesman, convinced five adjusters, who were very ready to be convinced, that this system will be the panacea to all their ills. One of these ills included having inspected many severely damaged buildings, taken poor field notes, photos of some sort, and how have hundreds of files to close and one poor Radio Shack computer borrowed from one of their kids. (It took me two hours to find out how to change the files= line in the config.sys file to make the computer run ANY SOFTWARE.) One computer, five adjusters, hundred of claims, and a billing deadline in three days. And a scanned software program is to save the day with no scanned scope sheets filled out? Someone wanted to believe. A five hundred dollar rental fee for the scanner had been paid. After the software was running and installed, it rapidly became evident that learning how to fill out the scope sheets was not going to happen. If the scope sheets are not used, the scanner is not effective. It was obvious this was wasting everyone's time. I made the decision to give their money back terminate the deal. The adjusters were looking for something to turn hundreds of ill-organized scope note into closed claims before the billing changed. Nothing in the world could do it then; nothing could do it now. You would think that experienced adjusters would know that fact. Experienced in 1992, that is. Not experienced in 2002. The deal may have been rotten, but the stench was emanating from both sides. One of these adjusters posts here regularly. Another, to this day, reminds me of the Elton John song, "Benny and the Jets". Make a phone call to the guys and see if we can start a new thread, using our real names as I do now, here called "What I did during Hurricane Andrew". They can regale me with tales of adjuster derring-do, and the rigorous training they underwent to become adjusters before Andrew and I can tell them how I put hundreds of hours of time in developing and improving a software package that, to this day, has abilities no other estimating system can match. I was in that room with your guys, the Radio Shack computer, the large amount of unclosed files, and the unclosed liquor bottles. I acted honorably as soon as I was brought into the situation; I gave them every penny back and an apology for wasting their time. I left CJET in 1999 to concentrate on computer services, mainly because I did not want to work as a manager of adjusters. (Especially adjusters like I dealt with in that hotel room right off I-95.) I do not agree with much that CJET does. But to slam them over a situation that went down nearly ten years ago, long before they became a vendor, is cowardly. The fact you do not use your name is cowardly as well. Chances are many folks have come a long way since Hurricane Andrew. Perhaps even NowThen does things a bit different than he did during Hurricane Andrew. I'd be willing to bet quite a few of todays experienced adjusters were "warm-body" adjusters back in 1992. Please do not mistake this post as a show of support for CJET. Just keep the slams on topic. Jeff Goodman www.stormcentral.com See where my software has gone at www.stormcentral.com. | ||
| Nowthen Unregistered guest Posted From: 205.188.198.159 |
Lets see was it CJet or Richards or what during their saga in Hurricane Andrew, as in, selling the scan machines to adjusters but forgetting to tell them they did not do roofs and the training was a hour or so in an apartment floor. I knew someone who purchased the deal on Monday and got their money back on Friday. Of course they lost 5 days of work waiting on the machine to do it. Made a phone call to the guys and got confirmation of my memory before I posted this. Close to a rotten deal as I have ever seen, of course remember this was 1992 and computers were new and hot at the time. Everybody at Andrew thought they would triple their money if they had a program of some sort. | ||
| young-n-dumb Unregistered guest Posted From: 12.83.68.170 |
I believe if further checking was done on cjet you would find even more reason to give them this award. how about the prices they charge the newbie for training with a promise of great income that will be made with their contacts. how about the prices they charge for there totally crappy awful software that they say the companies will only accept. i have worked for the companies with other software ant they accept anything. come on cjet why do you charge the trainee so much money to work. | ||
| D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
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"DRAG A HUNDRED DOLLAR BILL THROUGH A TRAILER PARK, AND YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT WILL TURN UP" James Carville Maybe Cjet got caught in the Carville-Clinton trailer park trap. They sure seem to love them hundred dollar bills. Since the headknocker @ Cjet is named Bill Richards shouldn't we all start calling him "Hundred Dollar" Bill? | ||
| alan jackson (Ajackson)
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Ghost: They 2 ask me for one hundred bucks a few months ago. Needless to say I told them to put it some where the sun never shines. My vote is for c-jet. Sworn and attested to. A.Jackson | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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Let's have some verification here people. In this kangaroo court, we will abide by the Marquis of Queensbury Rules. No one will be hanged without proper procedures and a new rope. | ||
| D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
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Maybe naming Cjet as the winner for this month will cause them to change their policy and stop charging a hundred bucks. If that happens do you pick another winner? Is there another winner each month? Fess up Ghostbuster. | ||
| Dave Dehlinger
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Ghost, CJet has my vote. Unbelievable! Just hope that none of us, especially the Newbies, fall for this. But having your own E&O isn't a bad idea, just in case. | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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CJET wants $100.00??!!!?? Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a WINNER!!!! We must now have a grand presentation awards ceremony to bestow our first ever S--T HEAD AWARD to our pals at CJET. I'm gluing the plastic dog poop on the mannequins head as we speak. But, just to be fair, we ought to confirm this first. Can we please have something in writing or maybe some sworn statements to verify this most wonderful of atrocities? At Claims Command Central, we do have our files to build... | ||
| Understandably Anonymous |
I have received an application packet from CJET Corporation. They require that applicants send them a check for $100.00 for a background check. They also require the applicant to furnish E & O insurance. Don't most reputable vendors provide E & O coverage and don't they certainly absorb the cost of the background check ? Red flags are going up and I think I will avoid this vendor. Any thoughts or experiences from any one else on this vendor or these issues ? | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
|
Well, sports fans, we have no clear winner yet. But, in fact, we do have some clear losers. They is us... No storm, no work, no dinero. | ||
| JimFlynt |
Ghostbuster glad to see you are back to serve as hall monitor and official contest vote counter here in the 'CADO clubhouse.' What is your tally for the November winner or do we have a clear winner yet? | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
|
I just wish someone would tell me what Roger is upset about. Please. Ya know, some of us can't sit around all day and night on-line. Some of us have to get out and drive the truck here at Suckorama Septic Service till the next storm. And, speaking of choking on it, I see on the Home page that ISO says there is 50,000 personal claims in NYC. I do hope the carriers are up to their ying-yangs in it for a long, long time. | ||
| Tom Joyce (Tomj)
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Jim, Good post regarding attitudes. If you have a min. could you comment on my post re. animal damage and handling of the claim. Also some that post negative will not understand the basis of your advice/comments. | ||
| Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
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Roger, as I said in my earlier post, you have years of experience and a wealth of knowledge which you could share with the CADO audience to benefit the education, professionalism, reputation and advancement of this profession as well as many adjusters, including yourself. CADO is not only well read by cat adjusters but by adjusters off all stripes and from institutions and entities beyond the borders of the US. Every major vendor, service provider and carrier monitors this site, and those are the decision makers who staff and deploy adjusters as needed to storm and other assignments. It would seem to me that by providing positive ideas and instruction to this forum, you could do more to advance your own reputation as a knowledgable professional, thus gaining the attention of potential new employers. If you are so overloaded with vendor and carrier contacts, with an over abundance of work opportunities presently coming your way and don't need the money, then by all means stay negative and continue to separate yourself from the adjusting 'family' with sniping and senseless remarks. But the loss will be yours every bit as much as it will ours. It is going to be a long winter and perhaps quite a long while before the next round of storms hit, so Roger you may want to find some additional outlets for your stress, bitterness or whatever other unknown frustrations which apparently seems to drive the tenor and content of your negative posted remarks here on the CADO Forum. The rest of us have decided to learn and share our knowledge positively in the meantime, so that when we do go back to work, we can work more efficiently, wisely and with greater financial rewards. Roger, take a look at several posts made this afternoon by Clayton Carr under another CADO Forum thread and tell me you didn't or couldn't learn something from his wonderful assessment of the state of the insurance industry and how we got there. Or perhaps, ask yourself if you could search your own mental knowledge bank and write a similar article of equal import? What Clayton has shared with all of us goes to the very essence of the lofty goals for which CADO was initiated and remains viable. This is not about Pollyanna or a Pollyanna Syndrome. It is all about working together to share knowledge and to find solutions to mutual problems in order to create more individual and collective opportunities. We welcome you to join us when and as you will. Roger rest assured I have no hard feelings towards you whatsoever, and I genuinely and sincerely offer whatever resources I personally have available to assist you in any way possible to relieve your stress or frustration with CADO, this Forum, or any specific threads, posts or posters. | ||
| Roger
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Nice of you to say so Marc. | ||
| mark (Olderthendirt)
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Well said rodger, you continue your deep inciteful and helping comments | ||
| Roger
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C2: ibid my prior remark!! | ||
| Concerned2 (Concerned2)
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The relevance to the topic is this, Roger. If you know who you work for, do a good job, address your billing problems as I have suggested, i.e., while on-site and in an appropriate manner with the correct person at the vendor, you will not end up at home looking for a check that is not coming, threatening vendors with lawsuits, nominating vendors for the "Hall of Shame", and festering in bitterness. Also, you will not end up burning bridges that you can never mend. Employees and principals at one vendor often turn up years later at another vendor. You cannot afford to alienate too many people in this industry. Take this advice or don't. I hope this didn't stretch your attention span too much. | ||
| Roger
|
Ah ha, another Pollyanna. While this cathartic rambling may be therapeutic to some degree, what does it have to do with the topic at hand??? | ||
| concerned2 |
Your comments to Roger were well said, Mr. Flynt. As with many things in life, we are our own worst enemies. Surviving in this business for a long time is tricky. It is possible to do very well as a single line "roof thumper" as Mr. Flynt puts it. Those who succeed usually have a construction back ground and have that to fall back on when times get lean. The key thing to note is that times will get lean and you will be OK if you have another business for income or a wife with a strong job, retirement income, etc. so you have a safety net. However, the other way is to have an insurance background. You need several years with a carrier and/or a bureau type adjusting company like Crawford or GAB. This is the only way you can learn this business well. They have excellent schools and you get to work a lot of different types of claims and develop an understanding of all of the implications of the things that you do from a standpoint of liability and potential litigation. You need to be multi-line to increase your options and marketability. During this time, you will hopefully develop some connections and friends in the business. It is really good if you can work for a general contractor for a while and get a feel for estimating. It is impossible to write a really good estimate without a sense what it is going to take for the contractor to do the work. If you don't work for one, cultivate a relationship with one and ride with him to estimate a few jobs. You'll learn a lot of things that you can't get elsewhere. A little sales training is useful too. When you accept an assignment, get the terms straight before you leave. When you get there, present yourself well, keep your mouth shut, and follow instructions. Try to develop a good relationship with your supervisor. You want to be perceived as efficient, friendly and knowledgeable. Don't tell war stories or discuss your income with company people. Don't encourage then to get into this business. Just do the job exactly as instructed. If you are working schedule or t & e billing, keep a log of your closings, billings, and dates of closure. Know how much is owed you by the vendor at the end of each week. Find out who is responsible for keeping track of your commissions and getting you paid. Be friendly with that person and make sure that he or she knows where you are in your billings, which can be demonstrated by the log you keep. If there are discrepancies, get them straightened out then and there while you are working and on the site. It is much easier to correct errors then than if you let it slide until you are gone. Don't let your receivables exceed $5,000-7,500.00 for longer than 2 weeks. Keep close track of your accounting. Know who you can call at your vendor if there is a real problem and make a point to meet them when the occasion arises. Some people have posted complaints about day rates. Except for hailstorms, day rates are a great thing. It simplifies accounting for you and the vendor. It takes away the frantic pressure to slam dunk files to make the week's billing. You can do a better job. There are times when a $325.00 day rate will seem great and others when it is not. Do not adjust your lifestyle when you are having a good year. Adjust it to an average or below average year and you will be a lot happier. The trick is consistency. The day you are not working and producing something - say for example $325.00- it is just like throwing that much out the window. You cannot afford to do that for very long while you wait for a "better deal". Start each year with a plan and realize that you need to string together a set of assignments to produce what you need for the year. If you take something, finish the job, do it well, and be cheerful. Develop connections and good recommendations for your resume and next assignment. Stay in touch with the connections you make and keep local ones so you can work near home during slow times. It takes a long time and a lot of effort to get a system together that works. I have shot myself in the foot more times than you can imagine over the years. In recent years, I work all the time. If you are good at this, you will be able to do it and if not, there are always salaried jobs. This business will kill you, just like it has many others, and you have to work hard to keep tension and conflicts minimal. The conflicts over not getting paid are the worst sort of stress generators so you need to know who you work for, practice the methods above, and keep a perspective on your life and work. Just a thought, or two. | ||
| Tom Joyce (Tomj)
|
In how many of us decided to earn somekind of living we decided or it is the nature of each of us to be a "solitary person" (hope Mr Diamond does't mind the loose takeoff). We work at times with, maybe a family member, or a support staff, we form frienships in towns with a variey of individuals, and we do our jobs. But is there one of us that doesn't reach a point where we say to ourselves, well jobs done and time to go, and do it with a sigh of relief? We are not nine to fivers, we as a group seem to like to move around, see new territory, deal with new challanges. It makes the job, so to speak. As far as vendors, keep in mind that they also have support staff, equipment, etc. They also provide a service to us in regards to finding the work, providing E&O,advances etc. I have had great experiences with many, and a few bad ones, but I do believe that's part of the job. This post is just to point out the fact that in a shrinking market we all have expences, etc. and the fact if you dont like a job situation inform the employer and move along. Leave the hard feelings aside and just keep on keepin on. Hope you all voted yesterday. | ||
| Jim Lakes
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Darryl and All, Darryl I agree with you and could not have said it better. Like you, I pay very close attention to the “goings on” of this site. Not just to see what many are saying but to learn what we can do to help make “all” of our lives better. I, like you, I am sure, know a lot of the people on here and consider many of them to be friends. As Jim Flynt just stated, we need to attempt to get along better and spend more time learning our business and how we can make it better. Having said that, if we as vendors deserve the bad publicity, so be it. If the shoe fits, wear it. Learn from it and correct our faults. I would also like to clear up what a few people seem to imply. We are on this site because we are in the “Catastrophe” business and this site is for catastrophe adjusters. Roy Cupps owes NOTHING to us. Sure, we pay our dues and pay for advertising on this site but if any of you out there think for one minute that the small amount that we pay for advertising buys us, any favors with Roy, then you don’t know Roy and you could not be a very smart adjuster. Hell, the last time I had to call him to let me advertise on this site. I have met Roy and talked to him several times. Not once did I ever have any other impression other than a fine person with an impeccable reputation. I truly believe that Roy wants this site to be for the benefit of “all” adjusters and for the benefit of the insurance industry as a whole. Sorry, when I see these kinds of comments, it is like accusing some of our adjusters of taking kick backs, I get hostile. Why, because many of you have worked for us and I know you would not consider it. Do “we” owe Roy anything? I think we owe him our gratitude and our full support for providing all of us the tool to communicate, educate, work together and become friends. Oh and one more thing, “MAKE MONEY.” Jim Lakes RPA National Catastrophe Director RAC Adjustments, Inc. 866.241.6574 | ||
| Darryl Martin
|
As a member of a vendor and a member of CADO I visit the site often to see what is important to the other members. I often want to comment with my own opinion on topics but have found in the past that many cannot distinguish between my opinion and the company's position. As those of you that know me I am not shy about giving my opinion, when asked, but it is strictly my opinion, right or wrong. I view the comments about VENDOR HALL OF SHAME with great interest. No matter who is talked about I figure I can at least learn things that are important to the independent workforce. Even when the remarks are negative about a competitor I still know there are two sides to every story. When I see a trend though I start to examine the comments more carefully. This is where I think this thread is beneficial. If we can identify trends then corrective action can be taken. As most know the perception of a wrong is often more damaging than a wrong. Keep up the comments, we can all learn from others experiences. Darryl Martin Director of Training The Worley Companies | ||
| Cecelia |
I guess I was snoozing, too, Ghost. But maybe whatever was so ugly it had to be pulled isn't worth seeing anyway. By the way, Roy, when our memberships expire do you write us and let us know so that we can sign up again? | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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Would it be asking too much to fill me in on the jist of this cat fight? In a calm, polite, and most gracious manner, of course. The offending posts got pulled before I could peruse them. See what happens when you snooze, you lose. | ||
| Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
|
Roger, you have way too many years of hard earned experience and such a vast repertoire of knowledge, to not share some of your positive useful ideas and powerful lessons learned with other adjusters. It is going to be a long hard cold winter for a lot of us during these thin times, and while it may seem at the time like a nice release to beat up on or batten down others as an outlet for our individual financial frustrations, in the end that is nothing more than a failed fantasy of human frailty: doing so is not going to put one red cent more in anyone's purse. In the long run, sharing positive productive ideas and lessons will. Dr. Robert Schuller has said that "tough times never last, but tough people do." That is especially going to be all the more important when we layer a tough year here in this profession (without a hurricane) with the added consequences of the vast fallout from 9-11. That alone should give us pause to unite behind not only overcoming our tangible global enemy, but to try and work together to find solutions to the intangible yet very real enemies we share as common obstacles to our individual and mutual success here in cat adjusting. In his speech upon receiving the Nobel Prize, the great Southern writer William Faulkner intoned "I believe that man will not merely endure; he will prevail." Roger, take it from another southern boy as well: CADO cat adjusters will not only endure, they too will prevail. And ultimately flourish. All that is required is a little time, patience and perseverance with a whole lot of sharing. Roger, regardless of tenor, timbre or tone, we will all get through these tough times. It may not be easy and it may not always be fun, but we will survive. Because collectively we are tougher than the problems we face. Roger, wouldn't it make more sense to share our knowledge, our fears, and our unique individual experiences in making this journey a little easier for everyone than to take out our individual frustrations on our fellow passengers? Just this once. Just this one time. Just in this urgent national period of doubt, uncertainty and crisis let's try it another way here on CADO. Insanity is doing it the same way we always have while expecting a different result. This time, we all need a different result, so let's try a newer different approach. Roger we are all in this together. Let's make the best of it. Together. | ||
| Roger
|
My, my. It appears that Jims “Pollyanna” syndrome is contagious. I understand they have a new tranquilizer that works quite well for it. | ||
| Linda Asberry (Linda)
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Ghost, you are right--most of the time. Name calling is a bit tough to take with my first cup of coffee. Visions of school yards dance in my head. Ruins my whole day. If times are that tough--come on up to Austin and I will still treat you and yours to that steak! I might even buy the gas. If you could manage it on the hot air around here lately, you could probably get to Alaska without stopping. (smile) Keep up the good words and take me up on the dinner offer. Your wife won't have to cook and you won't have to wash dishes for your keep. Past time for a storm. | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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Awww, Ms Linda, us folks don't have any 'beef' left. We're down to our last cans of Vienna sausage. One interesting viewpoint is that we are quite efficient at policing our own. Opposing opinions and presented facts are fired back rather quickly in this little clubhouse. And, considering the volume of posts, it seems to me it is a rare event for Roy to have to pull the plug, even during high stress times or controversial topics. I find it amusing when a figurative 'bucket of water' is dumped on a hothead. I'd say we're doing Okay. | ||
| Linda Asberry (Linda)
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I second that! I know of no other site which offers as much education, information and "help" as this site. The $60 is a small price to pay for all the services available. If folks have a personal beef, take it to the Chat Room, not to the forum or bulletin board. And last but not least, don't attack the person who gives so unselfishly of his time and talent so these services are available to you and me. A good rule of thumb might be: If you wouldn't say it to someone's face in a storm office, don't say it here! | ||
| Russ Doe
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I think Roger, should first, send Roy $60 for membership and second but not least Apologize to a man that works everyday and still makes time to monitor,update,answer emails,and groom the site to help, not only Cat Adjusters, but all those in the Cat Adjusting community. This site has been and will be a crucial part of our future as Cat Adjusters.I commend Roy for putting up with the snipes and STILL having the forsight to keep this site open for all to post and submit information and share their expertise. Thanks Roy!!!! | ||
| Jim Lakes
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James, Truer words were never spoken. I can see that you are, like me, mellowing out in your "Old Age." Ha Ha. I have always said that we should stay positive and try not throw stones at those we dislike. EXCLUDING BIN LADEN, OF COURSE. That is the biggest reason that with every post, I always put who I am, where I am from and my E-mail address and telephone number. Just in case someone has something they want to agree, disagree or just talk about with me on. Jim Lakes RPA National Catastrophe Director RAC Adjustments, Inc 866.241.6574 | ||
| Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
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In initiating this post, I was hopeful that adjusters could share vital useful information about lower and lousy fee schedules by some uncaring vendors. In essence, the intent of this thread was for the exchange of crucial information which might steer adjusters toward or away from specific vending firms. From my own experience, I am aware that any given adjuster might have a wonderful work experience with one vendor, while another adjuster on another storm with that same vendor might not. That is why Ghostbuster is absolutely correct that an explanation or rationale behind 'nominating' a vendor for this "Hall of Shame' was and remains so important. I was able to read all of the posts under this thread before Roy correctly removed some of them for violation of the CADO Users Agreement. It seems to me that we would all be better served if we could understand that another adjuster's experience with ABC Vendor may not be exactly the same as our own. Further, it seems with all of the talent, knowledge and experience available on this CADO Forum, that we should be able to positively influence and educate those other adjusters who are having problems in correctly scoping, estimating, and reporting their claim losses. Based on my own experience, I know that many adjusters fail because they were not taught correctly to start with and others fail because they were taught the wrong way. There is the very small number who know better but could care less, or they are so obsessively focused on being 'Thirty Day Wonders' that their files will always be the subject of reinspections, reworking and reassignment. Accordingly, I am going to initiate a new thread here this morning on claims and file handling techniques. This thread is especially for those who share the feeling that we should share knowledge to advance this profession through training and education of our weaker adjusters. And remember, we were all weak at one time or another. I know that Dale and Roger and many others can bring their own experiences and knowledge to this board to help adjusters like Florence, Ghostbuster and myself to better report our open files and more effectively close those files properly. It is easier to light a candle than to curse the darkness, so let's get our matches out and throw away the darts. Especially in thin times like these, we need to remember that we are all in this together. | ||
| Roger |
Right claimsranger, it is the good claims ferry paying Roy for this site. By the way, I know of a bridge in Brooklyn I can get for you at a bargain price and with easy terms. It is the perfect right bargain that anyone with your astute powers of deduction should have, especially when they are able to jump to conclusions as quickly as you do. | ||
| Moderator |
Ladies and Gentlemen, Please read the User Agreement. There will be no personal attacks allowed. Thanks. | ||
| CLAIMSRANGER
|
Boys & Girls, let us not shout, Roy has not sold out to anyone! Jim & Ghoust & the old dirt guy, get this. I get home from NYC, I got paid for my time & mileage, I had 400+ lbs of my stuff shoved on top of me, cracking a rib while being "helped" by a non-english speaking person, I go to close my mother's estate, have my home burglarized, my '97 LTD edition T-bird stolen, checks stolen along with a $3600 laptop ruined because they couldn't hack my password, now have to deal with OK Indian cops, Ark. cops, Tx cops, the FBI, still no work as Michelle is a dud or will be, hide and watch unless you are Cubano and FEDUP IS STILL AROUND YELLING "BOYCOTT". Good thread Jim, I just wish I could laugh cause it hurts when I do! Call me when you can get a chance! And Ghoust, E-mail me your d---ed snail mail address so I can award you another wall hanger.! Nuff said | ||
| Roger
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This post has been removed. | ||
| Dale Jones
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This post has been removed. | ||
| Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
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Ghostbuster, I think you are just suffering from a 'home too long hangover'. You also seem to be exhibiting all the symptoms which adjusters usually suffer when a storm pops up on radar and the standby calls start rolling in to our cat guys and gals. If Michelle doesn't hit, things will fast return to normal here . Maybe next week we can start a competition to see which adjuster got called and put on the most standby lists. Ghostbuster enjoy your giddiness while you can. And may everyone have a wonderful weekend while watching The Weather Channel. | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
|
Wow! What a difference a day, (and a hurricane), can make. Ain't it a bit peculiar how nice and pleasant and polite the vendors are right now, that are calling and, (for a change), BEGGING us to be put on standby? It must be a Holy Miracle or something. Do you suppose that this change of heart might even extend to the storm managers when we get there? Or, am I being overly giddy and expecting too much? | ||
| LMushred
|
I agree with ghostbuster there is always two sides to the story. I also worked for Eddie Adams and George Burton and my experience is just the opposite as Florence's. I found both extremely helpful and nothing but kind. They did not hassle you to get the claims done yesterday but they did expect that you get your claims done in a timely manner. This of course is what ALL companies requires. If you had a problem all you had to do was pick up the telephone and call. I never had any problems working for them or getting paid by them the experience was a positive one. I do know that Eddie and George and Doug (from Colonial) do expect you to know how to handle the type of claims you are working and the proper coverages for those claims. If you don't, I would think they would like to have you turn the assignment down. They are not suppose to be our baby sitters. I personally was thankful that they allowed me to do my job without meetings every day and without the pressures other companies put on you. Thanks Eddie and George and Doug for making the storm a pleasure to work. | ||
| Noble R. Nash
|
Let us enjoy this, today we can communicate one on one nation wide. Agree or disagree our views as adjusters can and is being sent. Just one suggestion too Ghost-buster. Ostentatious and Pseudonym. There is to much infycice on the wrong sillyiable. | ||
| pissed off
|
R.H. I too have been screwed by NCA and had to resort to threatening a lawsuit and pay an attorney to do it. That cut the profit margin down not to mention the lost interest and high blood pressure. | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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Yeah, I guess we saw this coming. One man's vintage wine is another man's sour vinegar. There are indeed at least two sides to every argument. Haven't we had prior discussions on the deficiencies of adjusters and the cleanup of their mistakes? Looks like all the players in this game have the smell of a pig sty on their feet. Be it the weasely connivers at the carriers trying to feather their glory by getting a service for nothing, or a greedy pimp of a vendor with cash flow problems shorting the adjuster on the fee bill, or the irresponsible storm trooper out to close as many underworked files in the shortest time and then vamoose before the stuff hits the fan, there are few clean hands in this game. In the interest of fairness, we should rightfully hear from the vendors that monitor this site and get their perspective. C'mon Gene Renfroe, Jared Eberl, the Pilots, and the Worleys. You too, Crawford and GAB, Cunningham Lindsey and Wardlaw, and all else. It's your turn. | ||
| mark (Olderthendirt)
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Know many who have worked profitably and with full support for nca. We have always received every penny and had all the help we need. Might there be two sides to this story | ||
| R.H. |
There are companies out their that sneak up on you and take advantage of you. that co. is NCA.I have $9,000.00 reasons why they should be on the top of the pile of dookie Along with a reinspector for USAA. Take some good advise and watch what companies and vendors you work for as they only think of their pockets and dont care if you go on a storm and spend your life savings to turn 10 claims. Seen it happen to many times to newbees that went to work for NCA and lost it all due to lack of support & claims. NCA makes shoe salesmen into adjusters who dont know their shoes from a shingle. My advise is to find companies with good support and dont give crash classes on adjusting. Find vendors that will help you and stand behind you when the insurance co.notices too much money is comming your way. | ||
| Joe schmidt
|
Crawford is looking for idiots to work for 225.00 a day in San Antone for USSA, must commit for 60 days. You also get 34.00 a day for food, 250.00 travel one way and if you stick it out you get another 250.00 to get home. They will also furnish you with a room and a shared auto. Sounds too good to be true, must be a catch somewhere. | ||
| Roger
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Eddie, Your experience with Florence seems unusual. I worked with her for 6 months (September 1,2000 through March 8, 2001) in Los Alamos and found just the opposite of what you’re suggesting to be true. I cant help but wonder what you base your comments on, personal information and observations, innuendo and hearsay from someone else or what? | ||
| Eddie Adams
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Of course, Comments from Florence Hall, consider the source. Adjusters whom completed their files, in a timly manner (not had 20 claims keep for 6 weeks then turned half back in unworked) or made their corrections to files ( not say that their demo disk had expired and can't turn it back on. Feel free to email back to me - as I have heard from numerous former co-workers of Florence, A 30 year or 30 day adjuster. Eddie Adams www.steady95@aol.com | ||
| FedUp |
This is not greed, this is need. For several months I have been suggesting that we boycott the worst offender. Looks like we are coming to some agreement that we should at least as a group refuse to work for low paying vendors. I suggested a boycott because it would give us group power instead of just "voting with our feet" as individuals. We would "vote with our feet as a group"!! It would not hurt the insureds or the carriers because we would still service them through a different vendor. It would make an example of the worst offendor and the other offendors would know that they could be next if they don't straighten out. We just need to figure out a way to select the worst offender and get the word out. we could activate the boycott when a storm hits or at anytime for example for the next month or three not accept assignments from Bad Apple Adjusting Inc. We may be independents but if we continue to act like lone wolves we will continue to lose against companies who take advantage of us. Yes, Let's vote with our feet... as a group!!! If you disagree with this please propose a better method of applying pressure to effect change. | ||
| Roy Cupps (Admin)
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Watch it guys. I don't want to start deleting post. Please do not use this board for personal attacks and keep it clean. Thanks | ||
| Greg Scott
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Ah, Jim Flynt, I'm flattered you remembered me. Actually, I thought you were with the Taliban what with your double standard on tear off and all. Sounds like you cut contractors prices and then you cry when insurers cut your rates! Rather a double standard wouldn't you say? As a matter of fact didn't I just see where the Taliban gave women no rights at all? What is good for the goose is good for the gander and oh so rewarding to see. It is truly a joy to see what goes around DOES eventually come around. Enjoy, Jimbo. | ||
| Russ Doe
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Bottom line for all you newbies,DAY RATE SUCKS. Ghost, sorry for my french. I have learned in my 10yrs of storm chasing that every time I put that paper clip on a file, I think to myself(ker-ching).That's what keeps me closing when I'm so tired I want to sleep. AJ is like that because we used to compete over Chuck Burketts (Carolina claims) weekly $100 bill. There are a lot of excellent Cat Adjusting Firms. In all my ten years I have not been screwed yet!! I have and will refuse to work for a lousy fee schedule and Day Rate. I cant fault anyone for making a living, even though it seems we are doing so much more for not so much more !! I can certainly commend companies that refuse lousy fee schedules, One being RAC. When you work for RAC you know the lowest schedule you will use is there own schedule.And that's as good as any! I think the mind set for the low day rate is that they can use newbies at that rate and hire one or two good adjusters to fix any problems. I think a lot of good adjusters are finding new vocations or turning P.A.'s. As Independents we will always be competing for work. It's the nature of the beast. This site has always been my constant. I look forward each day to reading the eloquent posts by all the regulars and I commend Roy for updating the site.It keeps getting better and better!! What would make it even GREATER is if Roy could put a filter on the post-a-job area that wont let anyone post a job for less than $600.00 day rate.Enough rambling.Have a great day and please work safe. | ||
| alan jackson (Ajackson)
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ohhhhhhh: I got 225.00, Let's see K-mart beat that. What would they be willing to pay if we all became public adjusters or decided to become full time plaintiff lawyer consultants. Everyone call 1 plaintiff lawyer, make him or her a bad-faith and mold expert. See how fast they respond. Judge rules everywater claim in Mississippi, (Due to class action), must be reinspected. See hoe fast the phone will ring. Say NO TO DRUGS AND NO TO THE DAILY RATE. | ||
| IdeaMan |
May I make a suggestion. While sitting at home looking at the weather channel,and reading CADO, do this. look thru your rolodex, call your buds, check with everyone you know to try and find some carriers/company's that utilize independents in and around your area. check with them, send them a packet with a sample product, stating "you" will do their "appraisals" for a "real fair and if necessary cheap amount" in other words figure up what you need to go out and do "an appraisal" for the supervisor or reviewer. may be $ 100.00 or $ 500.00 but break it down. then if you get 1 claim from 15 carriers or 15 claims from 1 carrier then you will make some money. ALSO, while you are doing this, inquire/ASK and if necessary BEG, to try and find out who their source of vendor is for their cat work. volunteer, maybe, just maybe, you will establish or connect or even know the claims manager and they will let you or ask you to work direct "just like the BIG BOYS". It has known to happen more than once. I know we are "Cat adjusters" but we also are realists, we have to make a living at a fair and reasonable rate. $ 325.00 may be for some. however, then it will be for a 5 day week, and on and on and on. I know this post will recieve some flak, but hey, what else do we have to do. I have had more positive input by this than negative. and oh, by not being greedy or selfish, tell them that "you" can provide them with plenty of "PROFESSIONAL,EXPERIENCED,WITH A "CAT" BACKGROUND, if they need more than you or are willing to let you and ever how many others work direct. If I could get a hook on a CAT,and bring 6 of you with me , We would show the BIG BOYS That they don't have the only ball in town. at least we can say we went down swinging without having to grovel for a living. As I said, I have worked since 12-26-00 absent 10 days, but whenever I am not working I am out there trying to gain employement any way I can. Now don't be too hard on me, just a suggestion. | ||
| alan jackson (Ajackson)
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Someone will have to beat 325.00. The next offer will be 299.99. Wal-Mart Adjusting. | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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Memo to: P----- Off Dear sir, Thank you for you post. By providing a rationale for your choices, you have legitimized this threads purpose. We have one small request. Your choice of a pseudonym, while highly expressive and no doubt accurate of your sentiments, reflects a certain, dare I say, coarseness. Those of delicate sensebilities will appreciate a refining of your choice of 'handle'. We thank you in advance. | ||
| pissed off |
Lets get serious here, GAB ranks high on my crappy list and have screwed me out of more commissions than any other company. They take the hold back and anything else that the billing is outstanding on and give it to those who stay after a loss for cleanup who are usually buddies of the storm manager. Crawford ranks a good second for screwing with their IA’s. NCA has some very good people but also like to play with your paycheck and do not pay any benefits like your SS tax, unemployment or work comp. There are a lot of small companies like them who do likewise but there are just as many small companies who do pay these benefits so why work for these jerks. If anyone thinks for a moment I am going to give my correct name their mothers dropped them on their heads as infants. It does not take rocket science mentality to figure out these jerk companies are also looking at these posts and will not hesitate to get someone on a black list. | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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I remember 6 1/2 years ago how we pissed and moaned over how low the $525/day rate at the earthquake was. Have I been asleep? Has the $dollar doubled in value since then? Do we pay 1/2 the 1994 rate for gas, food and lodging and the various insurance's? And how about the carriers, did State Farm lose all those $Billions from buying too many 'Like a Good Neighbor' ball point pens and Polaroid film? I am as hungry for a storm as the next man, but let's get real here, identify these carriers and vendors. Let's 'bust' these evil apparitions once and for all. Drag them into the sunlight of publicity. We have nothing to fear and everything to gain. | ||
| alan jackson (Ajackson)
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Please check BB: There a poster ask if a daily rate of $325.00 is okay. My theory is if you have to ask the question, you must be a newbee. Looks like that's what all the vendors want. Fast food adjusting at fast food pricing. Should we value,(Super) size your'e claim please. | ||
| VERYanonymous |
Removed at the request of the poster. | ||
| Roger
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Hi Flo, Havn't heard from you since Los Alamos. | ||
| Chuck Deaton
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Just a comment. I worked for Doug Branham, Colonial Claims, during the Houston flood as did several close colleagues. We have been paid for all the claims we handled and were treated reasonably. | ||
| Florence A. Hall
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This post has been removed. | ||
| Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
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We all thought you had joined bin Laden and the Taliban as Director of Truth and Honesty. Back to haunt us as a pouting whiner again huh? | ||
| Greg Scott
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And I thought we were above all those dishonest roofers who wanted to be paid for tearing off real squares of shingles and measuring them by real square feet. It seems as though insurers and vendors don't care who is measuring the roof or who is putting it on as long as the price is lower. Who was it saying they could always find somebody else to do it for the price figured (no matter how low that price goes). What's good for the goose must be good for the gander. I'll check back later, boys. Nice to see the same old same old. Greg Scott | ||
| TonySoprano |
Well Jim, you have started a great thread, but can you imagine when the suits start reading the posts and figure out who shameboat or ridgewalker or ghost or jim is. might get a little hairy, but I will cast mine for the 5 worst, and then we can tally it up. or perhaps we can just post what all the "INSIDE" information we know about vendors and the vendor management, ie, rates,deals,what ever "we" don't ordinarily know, and if it gets to it, maybe the late night dinners and lots of whikey on a cat site. all this sounds like The Adjanos or something. I love it. Keep up the faith boys, we will hang in there, we always have. | ||
| mark (Olderthendirt)
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Another area is putting too many adjusters on standby to early (one vendor did this to me even time a TD occured for the first part of the season) | ||
| Justin Duckworth (Justducky)
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How about a catagory defining the best vendor at stealing adjuster money. This could include such items as failure to pay holdbacks, creative deductions, photo money theft, mileage money theft, and many others that the members of cado can supply. this is becoming a real problem for adjusters. another category could be failure to return phone calls and a 30-60-90-120 day aging of accounts receivable. maybe if some of this was brought to light the practices would STOP !!! | ||
| Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
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Maybe we should set some parameters and catagories for judging, kinda like a beauty pageant. First there should be a winner in the egomanical judging. Then the always a crowd pleaser, nepotism and extended friends and family competition. Let's not forget that all important management thru bullying and intimidation contest. There is lots to consider in the presentation of this pre-emiminent and ostentatious award. Have I forgotten any other important qualifications? Oh, Jim, Yes I do have an idea for an appropriate symbol of our affections. I happen to have an old styrofoam head and some plastic dog poop that came from an old novelty store. With the poop glued on top of the head, we could have the symbol of our monthly 'S--- Head Award'. I'm open to suggestions. | ||
| Dave Dehlinger
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I'm not so sure this will work. There will probably be a dead heat for first place among five or six that I can think of. Fortunately, I haven't worked for anyone that would qualify. Loyalty and know before you go make a difference. In any event, this should be an interesting thread to read in a few days. | ||
| Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
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New thread for the CADO reader's Vendor Of The Month Vendor Hall Of Shame Award |