Ladder Safety
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Ladder Safety - 6/22/2006 9:26:55 AM
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CATdawg
Posts: 149
Joined: 2/26/2006
Home base: Keller TX
Status: offline
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While there is much advice here, objective and subjective, on ladders, I think a separate thread on ladder safety could be helpful to many. Several excellent points have been made about avoiding double-pulls if possible, and keeping a ladder maintained has been touched upon.
I would like to see more about technique, ie, setup; safety checks of equipment; situations to avoid; etc. For instance: it would seem prudent to avoid setting up the ladder on concrete or asphalt, presumably to have a "softer" landing in the event of a fall or slip. But in many cases, soil provides an unstable support for a ladder, so there would appear to be a trade-off.
I have seen mentioned using a bungee cord to secure an upper rung to a gutter pin. This seems a common-sensical suggestion. Setting up at a valley, especially on steeper pitches, can be helpful. It's a matter of geometry and biomechanics.
I'm curious to see if anyone else has any input on this subject.
_____________________________
Lee Norwood
"Many a time have skillful workmen tried to contrive a wheel that shall turn of itself..." -Archimedes
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/22/2006 10:19:05 AM
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racko
Posts: 228
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline
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Remember to check for overhead power lines before throwing your ladder up. These are pretty common in older neighborhoods, small towns and on the farm.
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/22/2006 12:46:44 PM
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ddreisbach
Posts: 47
Joined: 6/6/2004
Home base: Kemah, TX
Status: offline
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Double-pulls are forbidden by Pilot / Allstate. It's just too dangerous to be standing on the edge of a roof trying to handle a ladder. They will pay for a contractor with the proper equipment to get you on the roof.
Also, you're not required to go on roofs over 7/12 pitch.
_____________________________
"The secret of success is to get up early, work late and strike oil." -- J.D. Rockefeller
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/22/2006 2:28:43 PM
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Wes
Posts: 616
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Deerfield Beach, FL
Status: offline
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I was carrying my fully extended ladder vertical from a house over to a detached garage completely concentrating on balancing the ladder. All of the sudden the ladder just stopped but I kept moving forward until I lost the balance of the ladder. The ladder tipped several feet with my head going through one of the rung openings. So here I am in this back yard looking like a total idiot with an out of control aluminum ladder wrapped around my neck and I am bewildered because I can't figure out how I got in this position. Well my embarrassment didn't last long once I realized that what stopped my ladder was the overhead power line that the ladder was now resting on at the top with the bottom of the ladder resting on my shoulders around my neck. At that instance I learned everything there is to know about power lines and ladder safety, basically stay away from them. Now I will not extend my ladder with out checking for a power line in the area. If I check and don't see one I check again. If I don't see the power line I try to find it just to be safe. Make sure you also check for hidden lines in any nearby trees. I thank fate for teaching me a valuable safety lesson that day that I should have already known.
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/22/2006 11:06:54 PM
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Wes
Posts: 616
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Deerfield Beach, FL
Status: offline
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I like the look of the 'walk through' for getting on a roof but not quite sure how you use it to get back off. Do you turn around back wards at the ladder and step down through it to the rung? Seems a little tricky on a sloped roof.
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/23/2006 12:03:51 AM
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Lonestar
Posts: 13
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
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The walk thru looks good, where did you get it???
_____________________________
David in E TX
DO OR DO NOT!!!!!! THERE IS NO TRY!!!!!!
Yoda
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/23/2006 12:07:56 AM
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Lonestar
Posts: 13
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
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Was impressed with the walk thru. Heres my tip.
Use the proper ladder for the type job you need to complete. I use 3 different ladders. I have a 32' fibberglass extension for the tall roofs, a 16' fold up for the normal single story roofs, and I use a 12' telescoping ladder for anything indoors. Attic access in closets and garages.
The right tool for the job so ta speak.
_____________________________
David in E TX
DO OR DO NOT!!!!!! THERE IS NO TRY!!!!!!
Yoda
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/23/2006 1:33:48 AM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
Status: offline
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Here's the manufacturer's web site for the "walk through" http://ladderinnovations.com/aic_walk.html I paid $285 for mine, from an authorized distributor on E-Bay (do a search on the words "WALK THROUGH").
Wes, it is easy to get down from the roof with one of these. You just approach your ladder like you always do, and the first thing is to "steady yourself" by grabbing the ladder. That's why OSHA wants 3' above the edge of the roof. I "extend" my extension ladder enough that the top step is above the edge of the roof. The photo above is strange, because the top step really should be higher. Here's another photo from the manufacturer's web site:
Rather than swinging your leg around the ladder to "reverse direction" and putting your feet on the rungs, you just sort of do that "reverse" thing while holding the ladder like you always do, but you aren't off center. You are between the rails of the ladder. You could do the same thing with an extension ladder by taking the top 3 rungs out, but this design gives you more room. (no I don't sell them or make a commission).
This "walk through" will extend your ladder 3' which is nice, but does make it a bit cumbersome. The ladder extension pieces clamp onto your ladder rail by turning a screw, and if the ladder rails are smaller than 2 3/4" they don't fit very securely. I walked mine into Home Depot and tried them on several ladders, the smaller ones will require some wood shims to fit tight. I did that, and am very happy with them. They fit nice and snug on fiberglass ladders, which usually have a 3" cross section.
They won't fit over my Little Giant, unless I remove one of the sliding ladder sections, and put these on instead (results in about the same length of ladder). The Little Giant rails are way too small (compared to the inner capacity of the "walk-through" which is 3 1/4") but I cut some wood on my table saw that allows the whole thing to be tightened down very securely with the turn screws.
Bob Harvey
 Attachment (1)
< Message edited by BobH -- 6/25/2006 10:03:16 AM >
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/23/2006 8:09:54 AM
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jlombardo
Posts: 335
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: clearwater, fl
Status: offline
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Wes...
1) Thank God you are okay
2) Go buy a lottery ticket......
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/23/2006 1:05:48 PM
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capntram
Posts: 1
Joined: 11/10/2004
Status: offline
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If you are very interested in learning about ladders and ladder safety, I recommend the training manual "Fire Service Ground Ladders" published by the International Fire Service Training Association (IFSTA). It is an excellent resource, easy to read and learn.
Good Luck.
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/23/2006 4:17:09 PM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
Status: offline
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Cory (capntram) how ya been? I know you were a firefighter in a previous life. Looks like a good book. Here's where I found it http://www.ifsta.org/html/catalog/35920.htm;jsessionid=1151094279.13554
The newest edition was 1995, may be available used, or in librarys.
Bob Harvey
< Message edited by BobH -- 6/23/2006 4:55:10 PM >
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/25/2006 9:00:38 AM
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Agility Cat
Posts: 15
Joined: 6/15/2006
Home base: Asheville, North Carolina
Status: offline
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Another tip for safety on ladder; sometimes the ground is wet, so are the sole of your shoes, and climbing the ladder, you will have a chance to slip. I've got from home depot a 3M safety walk outdoor tread.(it look and feel like shingle material 2" wide works great). you cut it to the size of your steps, pleel the back and apply firmly the strip onto the steps of the ladder; it does make a lot of difference climbing (grasp from the sole of the shoes to the srip). you will have some left over for sure. I took the left over, cut into strip of the width of my flipcase board (the one you carry with your forms, et all), applied them in the back of the case. >>> you can leave your board on the slope of the roof , it will not slide <<< how many times we are on the roof, put the clip board on the slope, and there it goes, on the ground. Not in that case.
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/25/2006 9:12:05 AM
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Catmannn
Posts: 27
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Duncan, OK
Status: offline
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I would sure like to see something from Pilot stating not to climb 7/12 and above roofs.
Guess they never worked Plano Tx.
Houtz
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/25/2006 10:47:46 AM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
Status: offline
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Agility Cat, I like your suggestion of putting "traction strips" on the steps of your ladder, but am concerned that you are carrying a clipboard without a place to set it down: quote:
3M safety walk outdoor tread... I took the left over, cut into strip of the width of my flipcase board (the one you carry with your forms, et all), applied them in the back of the case. >>> you can leave your board on the slope of the roof , it will not slide. Where do you put your clipboard when you are climbing up or down the ladder? Get a thin laptop case, or other shoulder bag that you can put your clipboard in. There is an advertiser on this site http://www.customtoolbelt.com/ that some people like, I haven't tried their product personally. But you have to have a place to put your stuff so your hands are free - even walking around the inside of the house. Sooner or later you are going to grab a tape measure, set the clipboard (or claim file) down, and forget it. Get in the habit of always putting it in your bag so you never leave it behind. And don't ever set the bag down, use the shoulder strap (or the toolbelt clipboard holder mentioned above).
< Message edited by BobH -- 6/25/2006 3:58:55 PM >
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/25/2006 6:11:24 PM
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RandyC
Posts: 62
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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You must tie that ladder off with something. Longer than long ago, I climbed a ladder to the top of a warehouse not far from Love Field. The wind had been picking up and there was no place close to tie off so I had attached a longer rope to the ladder intending to find something to tie to once ascended. Well, I got up there, threw the rope over the parapet, and stepped onto the roof. Just then a huge gust of wind caused me to stagger a step, and in that second of time the ladder went down. The long rope raced to the ground like a high speed- snake, and I just missed grabbing the end of it.
There I was up about 26 feet on top of a warehouse with a blue norther coming in and no jacket. We didn't have cell phones in those days. After a while, a guy came walking down the sidewalk with a jambox on his shoulder. I waited until he got closer and shouted, but the wind was too strong. He couldn't hear me. Then he saw the ladder, looked up at me, laughed and moved toward the ladder. He put his jambox down, then laughed again. Something struck him even more funny that before. He grabbed his Jambox, looked back at me and shook his head with a "Sorry, no can do!" look... and left. He stopped a few times looking back, laughing and waving.
I hoped he was just kidding and would return...but he wasn't. I was up there about 45 minutes before someone else came by and reset my ladder. The guy with the jambox was of no help that day, but for the rest of my life he helps me remember to tie off that ladder.
Randy Cox
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/25/2006 6:28:02 PM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
Status: offline
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Randy, some roofs are easy to tie off - like a gutter that you attach bungee to. Finding a "gutter nail" is a good place to center the ladder legs, as you can put the bungee under the nail (spacer) thingie. That also helps to prevent crushing the gutter, you know it has more support there.
Some roofs seem impossible to tie off. Like boxed in eves and no gutter. Do you have any safety tips for that scenario?
If there is a facia board (and no gutter) I bring up some clamps that I put on the facia, then tie the ladder down between the clamps. With your "focus" on this, I'm sure you have some solutions we haven't considered.
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RE: Ladder Safety - 6/25/2006 9:05:45 PM
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RandyC
Posts: 62
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BobH
Randy, some roofs are easy to tie off - like a gutter that you attach bungee to. Finding a "gutter nail" is a good place to center the ladder legs, as you can put the bungee under the nail (spacer) thingie. That also helps to prevent crushing the gutter, you know it has more support there.
Some roofs seem impossible to tie off. Like boxed in eves and no gutter. Do you have any safety tips for that scenario?
If there is a facia board (and no gutter) I bring up some clamps that I put on the facia, then tie the ladder down between the clamps. With your "focus" on this, I'm sure you have some solutions we haven't considered.
Well, I'm adding a short bungee to my ladder kit, and a small C clamp for that facia board thanks to you guys!
If I have to use the gutter, I like to put some cardboard or a rubber floor mat between my ladder and the gutter to keep the marks off. Some people don't like concrete at the foot of the ladder, but I prefer it. I hate it when one leg sinks and the other doesn't! When I have to put a ladder on the lawn, especially a flowerbed, I like to put something under the legs to spread out the weight.
You can't always do it, but putting the ladder up in a L shape part of the roof gives stability to it that doesn't happen in an open area. As for tying it, you don't have to always tie at the top. You can tie to a flood light in the cornice or even the top of a shutter if that's all you can get. You can tie to a high shrub, or an eyebolt in the cornice where a flower pot is hanging. It won't hold in a hurricane, but it might survive a breeze or a stumble of the foot. I'm sure you've used all these things. I don't mind having a chimney next to my ladder. If it's a steep roof, I like to have the chimney to my back in case I start sliding down.
I think a lot of ladder and climbing safety is art. A safety engineer would never approve of some places that work as tie off points and handholds. I've had people panic when they see me reach for a soil pipe. I'm not going to put all my weight on it; I'm just going to use it for balance. Now if I do that and someone is watching I'll explain, before they panic or worse do the same thing with all their weight and have an accident.
Another thing I might do and shouldn't. I'll extend the ladder up maybe two feet instead of three. That way I can step over the ladder in a straight line and keep my weight centered and pressing straight down instead of stepping around the ladder, which puts weight from my foot against the ladder at an angle which can cause it to slide. I've got to have one of those step throughs to keep me from doing that.
Randy Cox
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