RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/16/2005 7:31:48 AM
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Tom_Toll
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Unfortunaely the harm has been done. It is now set in the minds of the Mississippi population. CNN and others will pick this up and run with it. The Law of Contracts is supposedly a methodology to bind one to an absolute agreement in terms. It appears the AG did not attend his Contractural Law class. This is not what I was taught in Law school. Of course, any contract can be challenged. Why did not the AG file this suit prior to the Katrina event.
This, by reason of a now informed public on this issue, is going to create some animosity toward the end result of a loss, the adjuster. The upper management of the companies do not have to go into the field and confront this, we do. The health and welfare of my fellow adjusters is dearest to my heart and soul. I fear there may be harm done if this is not resolved in the very near future.
The politicians have managed to screw our country up and apparently are going to continue. These policies have been around a long time and reason should prevail in the long run, however, we are dealing with a bed of hornets, since this issue has been made public. One poster made the comment that nothing in the policy contract says the companies must advance monies, and he is correct. I am sure that no advances will be offered until this matter is put to bed. That being the case, we must be careful when talking to an insured. We must not discuss these issues with the insured, as some of them are still and will be in a state of shock at losing what they have worked for , for many years.The psychological impact on the populace is evident, including the AG. Fear and depression of the populace due to this event, is a concern that we all must face in the next several years. I only ask that all of you be careful. Be compassionate to your insured, but refrain from discussing matters of coverage until this is resolved. Please be careful and stay safe.
In the matter of payment for your services. You cannot be paid until a claim is resolved, in my opinion. This is an issue that the companies must resolve before we go out. We enjoy helping others, but, we do have to make a living in order to reach our goals. The vendors should make a decision of adjuster payment soon and then put forth this information to the field adjuster. This is not an unreasonable request.
A word to the politicians, please refrain from becoming totally moronic. Please refrain from destroying an entity of protection for your population. Please don't take this wrong, we are totally sympathetic to your population, and as adjusters, want to help your populace in any way we can.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/16/2005 12:03:26 PM
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RobertV
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tom_Toll
... Why did not the AG file this suit prior to the Katrina event....
Read the suit if you haven't. That was one of my biggest questions. If the AG has such deep-rooted and well thought out concerns, surely they were in place before this event.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/16/2005 12:05:08 PM
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RJ
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While Mr. Hood is trying to change existing contracts through state courts he may well be opening Pandora’s box in relation to Article 7, paragraph G. of the SFIP under the NFIP. If Mr. Hood is successful he will in effect add flood coverage to homeowner and commercial policies. This will then invoke the provisions under the SFIP (Standard Flood Insurance Policy) that apply to other insurance. This will have a dampening effect on the speed in which a flood claim can be handled due to the fact that the wind carrier loss will have to be settled first in order to establish the pro rated share owed under the SFIP.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/16/2005 7:32:22 PM
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okclarryd
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I would certainly agree that the mess just got a lot deeper but, one must keep in mind that the flood policy is always primary. It is the wind policy that must refer to the decisions made in flood.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/16/2005 7:44:04 PM
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trader
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The last time I worked in MS. (1995) The state amendatory sheet for MS (not the ISO policy) had an exclusion for Wind/Hail damage on aluminum patio and carport covers. Is it still in MS. sheet ?
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 12:15:54 AM
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tim38801
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On the local tv news (Tupelo, MS) today the AG said the policy holders dec sheet shows a Hurricane Deductible. So therefore the policy holders thought they had "Hurricane Insurance" and any damage caused by a hurricane should be covered.
In an earlier interview he indicated the proximate cause of the tidal surge was the wind. He didn't use the term proximate cause but indicated the tidal surge was caused by the wind.
Could get intresting. I think it is a political move. This AG is the understudy of Mike Moore the first state/person to sue the tobbaco co. and win.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 6:57:02 AM
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JimF
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For those interested in learning more about Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood and his office, they can do so by reviewing the website for his office as follows:
http://www.ago.state.ms.us/
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 7:37:33 AM
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jlombardo
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Tom,
Outstanding post.....as usual......looks like it is going to get real interseting in a hurry.....interesting point concerning payment.........another thought...will the companies just stop the inspection process on any losses involving flood damage to the risk and handle only verified wind losses until this mess is cleared up???? Or will they have the adjuster visit ALL POLICYHOLDERS IN THE AREA and write ALL the DAMAGES...whether flood or wind????
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 8:07:46 AM
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FloridaBoy
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Home base: Ft. Myers, Florida
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jlombardo
Tom,
Outstanding post.....as usual......looks like it is going to get real interseting in a hurry.....interesting point concerning payment.........another thought...will the companies just stop the inspection process on any losses involving flood damage to the risk and handle only verified wind losses until this mess is cleared up???? Or will they have the adjuster visit ALL POLICYHOLDERS IN THE AREA and write ALL the DAMAGES...whether flood or wind????
I doubt the carriers will want all damages written when there is no flood coverage. The MS AG's suit is pure politics. NFIP has had TV ads about purchasing coverage in 'non flood zones'. Most cable TV monthly bills are more $$ than flood insurance would have been. Most of the people w/o flood thought this would never happen to them and elected not to buy the insurance. I would not work these claims unless I was on a healthy daily rate.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 11:54:59 AM
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sbeau4014
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The route that this is taking so far at this point in the storm, I can see quite a few carriers pulling completely out of some of these states and could cause ain insurance nightmare for the entire state, or states involved. We all know of the problems that Citizens has in Florida and that is only for a couple perils in certain areas of that state. Could you imagine if 4 or 5 of the big carriers pulled out of the entire state? There is no way there would be capacity to pick that up and the states would be forced into an insurance crisis, that the state would have to take up the slack under a Fair Plan type set up. Any of you out there that have worked for Fair Plans know how good they are. If the courts did rule that an insurance company can't use the flood exclusion, what would stop them from ruling any exclusion is applicable. Precedents once set stay with us and can be used in future legal battles. And keep in mind, it doesn't affect just the homeowners market, but commercial, auto, etc. People of Texas can all tell you what happened to their rates with all that mold stuff that hit a few years ago, and the coverages that they now have (couldn't get an all risk policy in that state if your life depended on it). I can see everyone in those states having their premiums double or triple for getting an HO1 policy through a Fair Plan type set up. What bothers me the most about it is not the impact on us as adjusters or the big bad insurance companies, but the people that live there have taken a big hit throughout the state (not just the affected areas), and they stand to take a bigger hit for some of them for years to come.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 12:08:07 PM
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trader
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delete
< Message edited by trader -- 9/17/2005 12:58:36 PM >
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 12:38:54 PM
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Tom_Toll
Posts: 560
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Regardless of terminilogy, the basic fact is the Federal Government is immune from litigation. I think the idea the AG has is ludicrous, to say the least. If the courts allow this to happen, there will be total mayham. I hope the AG wakes up and realizes that the law of contracts cannot be inadvertantly changed, due to whimsical thoughts. The people of Ms. truly need help, but, the contract of insurance should not be played with. This industry cannot stand a total burden of responsibility for those who chose not to take NFIP flood coverage. One failure of society now, is the absolute fact that no one can take responsibility for their own actions and when they don't, they want legal intervention.
This is going to be a very dangerous situation. I ask that all of you that are handling claims in MS., refrain from discussing coverage. Let the company you represent take that responsibility, under these circumstances. If an insured become extremely hostile, leave immediately. Emotions were running high prior to this and they will run much higher now. Most insured's who have lost everthing are already in a state of fear, lonliness, despair, and depression. Under those pressures, anyone is capable of doing anything. SO BE CAREFUL.
_____________________________
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 5:45:27 PM
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kpoppa
Posts: 7
Joined: 9/2/2005
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How many of you expect the AG of Louisanna to jump on the Mississippi band wagon? Probably not much question that Attorney Scruggs will get a Class Action suit going.
Comments
kpoppa
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/17/2005 8:20:38 PM
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FloridaBoy
Posts: 98
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Home base: Ft. Myers, Florida
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tom_Toll
Regardless of terminilogy, the basic fact is the Federal Government is immune from litigation. I think the idea the AG has is ludicrous, to say the least. If the courts allow this to happen, there will be total mayham. I hope the AG wakes up and realizes that the law of contracts cannot be inadvertantly changed, due to whimsical thoughts. The people of Ms. truly need help, but, the contract of insurance should not be played with. This industry cannot stand a total burden of responsibility for those who chose not to take NFIP flood coverage. One failure of society now, is the absolute fact that no one can take responsibility for their own actions and when they don't, they want legal intervention.
This is going to be a very dangerous situation. I ask that all of you that are handling claims in MS., refrain from discussing coverage. Let the company you represent take that responsibility, under these circumstances. If an insured become extremely hostile, leave immediately. Emotions were running high prior to this and they will run much higher now. Most insured's who have lost everthing are already in a state of fear, lonliness, despair, and depression. Under those pressures, anyone is capable of doing anything. SO BE CAREFUL.
Spot on Tom. Katrina may not be a big money storm for many adjusters. Why did the Feds offer 50 Billion in aid? Short answer, there is no insurance.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/18/2005 2:43:05 PM
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kmerian
Posts: 55
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Home base: San Antonio, Tx
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I have already seen the "consumer advocates" going on CNN and other places urging people to claim windstorm damage even if it is flood, since the wind pushed the storm surge or pushed the lake over the levees etc. As a result we are going to be sent on a lot of claims where there is no coverage. And I have not bought the argument that people don't know, EVERYBODY in that part of the country knows you need flood insurance, but we have all heard every argument in the book. BTW here is another article urging people to claim some other coverage than flood:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1133677&page=1
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/18/2005 3:39:52 PM
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rhking
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I found this article that provides a good legal analysis to the current Katrina situation and flood coverage in general . It will be interesting to see how this hashes out in the coming months and years.
http://www.dougsimpson.com/blog/archives/000464.htmlnd
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/18/2005 4:34:14 PM
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LCAT
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Even if the wind pushed the water onto land, the exclusion clearly states that tidal surge /waters or overflow from a body of water is not covered whether or not driven by wind. I really dont understand the ambiguity that the AG alledges.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/18/2005 6:26:37 PM
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Johnd
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quote:
I really dont understand the ambiguity that the AG alledges.
AG is a Liberal. AG is tired of his job. AG wants to be Governor. AG knows he can get a lot of votes by appearing to care. AG also knows he cannot get these folks votes unless he appears to be getting them something for nothing. AG also enjoys all the "face time" he is getting on the TV networks.
Clear now?
< Message edited by Johnd -- 9/18/2005 6:28:33 PM >
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/19/2005 1:24:01 AM
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kmerian
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I think John hit the nail on the head. How much do you want to bet that the AG is soon going to annouce he is running for Governor, Senate or some other high office here in the near future?
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