RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/19/2005 9:00:09 AM
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olderthendirt
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Maybe he just sees all the people who have lost every thing and were told by their agents and the banks, you don't need flood insurance. He may be out to lunch, but maybe there is a reason.
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Still sliding down the razor blade of life
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/19/2005 6:21:32 PM
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mh0825
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If the AG actually succeeds in this suit, it will cause companies to go bankrupt. It may be a solution right now . . . but in my opinion, I don't feel this will result in the best for the state of MS in the long run.
One of our sister companies is in MS and has one of these hurricane endorsements which state there is a hurricane deductible. It states that damage from a hurricane will be subject to a hurricane deductible. I don't see how it can be intrepreted that this gives coverage back for flood.
Like earlier posts, the AG must have been passionate about this topic before it happened. I would like to know if he ever mentioned this before the disaster or if he feels this way to become governor of MS.
I do feel bad for those that lost there homes to flooding and they had no flood insurance because they were told they didn't need it. I do think there are ways to help out these insured's but playing with the law of contracts is no way to do it.
This raises another question as well, what about claims from last year that were declined because of no flood coverage? If MS decides to grant coverage, no doubt appeals will be made, but will FL's AG decide to file suit for homeowner's that were denied because of no flood coverage in FL from last year?
< Message edited by mh0825 -- 9/19/2005 6:22:55 PM >
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/19/2005 8:08:46 PM
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Big T
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Well, the MS AG doesn't have any power in FL. Were there any Ivan claims in MS?
Safety alert, see my new post "Escorts" I have to believe the issues in this thread have created the need for escorts
< Message edited by Big T -- 9/19/2005 8:10:00 PM >
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/19/2005 8:51:53 PM
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mh0825
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I understand the MS AG has no effect on FL directly, but will his actions indirectly affect FL by starting a class action suit of it's own?
< Message edited by mh0825 -- 9/19/2005 8:52:22 PM >
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/20/2005 7:10:05 PM
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JCwik
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By Anne Thompson, CorrespondentNBC News SLIDELL, La. - On Moonraker Drive in devastated Slidell, homeowners lives are at the curb and their tempers are short as insurance adjusters classify the vast majority of losses as flood damage — not hurricane or wind damage. “Got 145-mile per hour winds pushing water off the lake knocking all those camps down into my house,” says Slidell resident Steve Scholl, “and you are gonna call that flood? What came first, the chicken or the egg?” Generally, flood damage is not covered by homeowners' policies. Instead, you must have flood insurance — a federal program that covers only up to $250,000 in damage, no matter how extensive the destruction. The storm surge from Lake Pontchartrain, whipped up by Katrina, put a neighbor's hot tub and boat in Warren Willoz's back yard. He hopes his $150,000 flood policy covers the damage done to his $275,000 house. But already there are issues. “They said they'll only cover the bottom cabinets but not the top,” says Willoz, “because the water didn't get up high enough to damage the top.”
Such frustrations echo along the Gulf Coast. Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood and several private attorneys are suing several insurance companies including State Farm and Allstate to force them to pick up more of the tab. The industry blasts those suits as politics, arguing the federal government stepped in decades ago because such potentially huge losses were too expensive for private insurers to cover. “When you write a fire insurance policy,” explains Joseph Annotti with the Property Casualty Insurers Association of America, “you don’t expect the entire city to burn down in a day. Flood has potential catastrophic losses.” But whether it's politics or policy, for these homeowners, any shortfall is too painful. It's the aftershock Willoz didn't expect. “This is too hard to go through,” he says. And yet, Willoz is one of the lucky ones — one of the just 46 percent of homeowners in the New Orleans area who have some flood insurance.
_____________________________
John T. Cwik
CopperState C.M.S.
Tucson, Arizona
"It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/20/2005 8:27:52 PM
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JGardner
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If the AG's reason is political and to eventually become 'govna' of MS, then he won't be governor of jack squat. This state is already the poorest in the nation (financially and academically) and this dismal amount of foresight by the AG's short term solution will solidify MS in this position for ages to come.
When I was BI adjuster, we always cringed when we had a lawsuit filed in this state due to the unreasonably high jury verdicts. This is one of the states that prompted national tort reform. What a sorrowful disgrace- this state will drown in its ignorance should they stand behind this man.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/20/2005 9:42:15 PM
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Big T
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Here's what I see if he succeeds with his plan:
1. Ins Co.s paying for losses not covered
2. Fed Govt (that's us!) bailing out Ins Co.s so they don't go broke
3. Ins Co.s limiting coverage in MS if not withdrawing outright from the state
4. All homeowners in MS get stuck with a Citizen's type quasi governmental carrier because a few thousand didn't carry NFIP
5 Insurance premiums in MS quadruple
6. People get mad at AG, he's drummed out of public office and is ruined cause he's never held a private sector job
Oh, and the claims will take 2-4 years to settle as the case goes to the US Supreme Court
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/20/2005 11:15:49 PM
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sbeau4014
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One of the carriers has made their position clear on this issue. Hopefully the others follow suit and then this politician will have a good battle on his hands. I couldn't get the link to work properly, so you will probably need to cut and paste it.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid={AF045FA4-4006-4D10-BD1E-399DA4BCC7CC}
< Message edited by sbeau4014 -- 9/20/2005 11:19:33 PM >
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/20/2005 11:22:15 PM
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K. Ingram
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I wonder. Do you think the AG might have had his claim denied due to not having his own flood policy? If he is ignorant enough to attempt this suit, then he would most probably be ignorant enough not to have his own flood policy. Then again if he does carry flood where is his defense for saying that the wind policy should pick upi the coverage? Either way I for one don't think he should be trusted to handle any public office what so ever.
_____________________________
If you're not living on the edge then you're taking up too much space...
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/20/2005 11:33:11 PM
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mh0825
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I don't think any of the carriers in the suit are gonna bend over and take this one. Would you? You run the risk of throwing out a few extra million, possibly a lot more depending on how big you insure in that area.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 12:35:55 PM
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The Bennetts
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Interesting thread. I've read the forums here for a long while but never posted. What occurs to me is that first, I am appalled to think that the AG of MS is attempting to rewrite policy provisions and include perils not originally covered by the policy. Second, the old days of legalese in insurance policies is largely history. Most policies or policy jackets contain provisions and definitions and mostly explain the terms in ordinary language. The fact that most insureds do not read their policy is not a defense. (Though reading your policy is a sure cure for insomnia) They have policies if they have insurance and it's their choice to read them or not. Furthermore, most agents take the time and trouble to explain coverages to insureds. Personally, I have three policies on our property. Fire, windstorm, and flood. If the agent didn't clearly state the coverages provided, then they would be potentially subject to E&O exposure. Most good agents thoroughly explain these coverages.
There are no ambiguities about whether flood is covered, therefore, no adherance issues. It's clearly explained, so doctrine of reasonable expectation would not be a point of contention. He has no legal basis upon which to base his suit. It will be thrown out. He's going to look like a bigger fool than Georgie Jr.
He needs to take out a loan and buy himself a clue. But since he has no credibility, he probably has no credit.
Incidently, thanks to all the posters here with such dedication to the profession and to the plight of the insureds. Compassion and professionalism is alive and well and living on catadjuster.org. The willingness to educate and assist new adjusters is refreshing and reaffirms one's faith in goodness. Once again, thank you all.
_____________________________
It takes more than insurance to make us whole.. God bless the victims of the storm.. we're here to help.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 12:47:43 PM
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JimF
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quote:
ORIGINAL: The Bennetts
Personally, I have three policies on our property. Fire, windstorm, and flood.
Your quote caught my attention and while I don't know how others here may read it, it is an interesting comment.
My question to you is why do you have separate policies for wind and then for fire?
Which insurance policy are you using to only obtain fire coverage and then wind coverage?
I understand the need to add a second policy to pick up coverage for flood, but find it unusual that 2 policies instead of 1 would be used to provide coverage for wind and fire. Said another way, most insureds it would seem could/would insure these same three perils under 2 rather than 3 insurance policies.
Please enlighten me.I don't pose these questions as any kind of put down or indictment. I just found the comments interesting and the insuring approach a little outside of the normal method of insuring.
Thanks for listening and for your consideration of this request.
< Message edited by JimF -- 9/24/2005 12:50:06 PM >
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 12:54:05 PM
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okclarryd
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I'm gonna make a guess :
it's either commercial policies, Texas policies, or both.
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LARRY D HARDIN
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 1:10:55 PM
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gvmorgan
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I don't see how Texas policies would make any difference. Maybe he has a building used for business on his residence premises? I guess we will find out, lol.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 1:27:06 PM
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RicVitiello
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I just ran across this article and thought it might stimulate some discussion
Stay Safe
Ric Vitiello, president
Benchmark Services, Inc.
Forensic Roof Consulting
Hail/Wind Roof Damage Assessment & Training,
Service Nationwide
Cell # (502) 777-5202
Katrina Suit Stirs Industry Ire
BY STEVE TUCKEY
NU Online News Service, Sept. 16, 3:37 p.m. EDT
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Were the Great New Orleans Flood and Hurricane Katrina separate events?
Much is riding on questions like this as the insurance industry, regulators and plaintiffs’ attorneys fight over claims liabilities from the weather events of late August in the Gulf Coast region.
The first salvo came yesterday in the form of a lawsuit filed in the Chancery Court of Hinds County, Mississippi by the state’s attorney general, Jim Hood.
Mississippi seeks a restraining order to stop insurance companies through their adjusters from having property owners sign liability waivers acknowledging their damage was caused by flood and not wind-driven rain. The state argues such provisions are unenforceable and unconscionable.
The insurance industry reacted immediately, and with some degree of alarm.
Ernst Csiszar, president of the Property Casualty Insurers Association of America, based in Des Plaines, N.Y., said the lawsuit was about politics. “It threatens the validity of any contract now in effect,” he said.
Robert Hartwig, chief economist for the New York-based Insurance Information Institute, said it was noteworthy that not one insurance regulator supported Mr. Hood’s lawsuit, including his home state commissioner, George Dale.
Mr. Dale told National Underwriter yesterday that he would obey whatever courts said, but did note that the potential ramifications of the suit could be troubling.
Mr. Hartwig said the wind versus flood issue rarely came up after big hurricanes. “In fact, these claims usually run pretty smoothly. Whether it is flood or just flood and wind, adjusters are very experienced at it,” he said.
The problem with Katrina is that many of the affected residents did not buy flood insurance, he added.
Mr. Hood is not arguing that the flood exclusion is invalid, but has questioned its interpretation.
“The provisions at issue attempt to exclude from coverage loss or damage caused directly or indirectly by water, whether or not driven by wind,” Mr. Hood said in a press release.
In such disputes, the call should always be in favor of the policyholder, he said.
In a similar vein, Ken Suggs, president of the American Trial Lawyers Association, painted the insurance industry as heartless bureaucrats who even before the storm subsided were a disowning liability.
“The description by some in the industry of the damage from the storm surge as “The Great New Orleans Flood” is ridiculous,” he said. “It contradicts the scientific assessment of the National Climatic Data Center, and appears to be the first part of a ‘spin’ campaign designed to provide cover for denying claims from victims.”
Mr. Hood’s the lawsuit, which has not been joined by other states, is a legal attack on an industry that follows in the footsteps of his predecessor, Mike Moore, who gained a national reputation suing the tobacco business.
In Alabama, according to a Reuters report, Attorney General Troy King said it would be premature to initiate such a suit. In Louisiana the Attorney General’s Office referred questions about possible legal action to the Department of Insurance. A spokesman said there are no plans for a suit and it is not the task of that agency to file legal actions.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 1:31:14 PM
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RicVitiello
Posts: 13
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Home base: Louisville, KY
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Sorry for the way that article posted. I think the junk code has something to do with formatting of the text. The title of the article is:
Katrina Suit Stirs Industry Ire
BY STEVE TUCKEY
NU Online News Service, Sept. 16, 3:37 p.m. EDT
_____________________________
Ric Vitiello, president
Benchmark Services, Inc.
Forensic Roof Consulting
Hail/Wind Roof Damage Assessment & Training,
Service Nationwide
Cell # (502) 777-5202
http://www.benchmark-services.com
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 1:34:40 PM
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sbeau4014
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Jim, I can answer your question for the Bennetts. In numerous states (Texas for one that I know of) the HO carrier will exclude wind and possible hail for 1st tier properties, or coastal counties. The wind pool will pick up the wind and hail only perils. So you could have a HO that picks up whatever perils involved (depending on named peril, broad form, all risk), but excludes wind, hail, flood. The wind policy picks up the wind and hail, and the flood policy picks up the flood perils.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 1:51:54 PM
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The Bennetts
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Jim, because we are Texans and Perry is our governor and because of the mold debacle. Previously, we had a policy that included all the usual except for flood. After we built our new home three years ago, we learned that we only had that policy because we had been "grandfathered in." On the new home, we were advised that wind and hail had been separated from the homeowners policy into a separate policy and had to be obtained as a second policy. Flood insurance was the third. No, I don't like it but we didn't get a choice and we needed coverage. So, we pay nearly 2K a year for coverage on our 200K house with no mold protection.
You know, I love Texas. I am a Texan through and through but we aren 't perfect. We constantly tend to reinvent the wheel. Anne Richards was a great governor and she fixed the workers comp mess but she changed the wc codes around. Cut out a bunch and combined them in rather crazy ways. Why couldn't we adopt the NCCI codes? Because that would have been way too easy. Go figure.
Now we have the mold debacle and this is how the coverage is written. I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg because I wasn't aware of it until we built the new house. I don't have the policies with me because we're on the run from Rita on South Padre Island. We'd been doing some adjusting in Louisiana/MS and had to run home and rescue the Mom and pups from the path of the storm. Isn 't it ironic? Being contrarian by nature, we went south instead of north. No traffic. Nice hotel and beach. Plus, I had certs from all my travel and it's almost free, LOL. Somebody up there loves us, for sure. Hope all you guys are well and out of harms way. Stay safe.
_____________________________
It takes more than insurance to make us whole.. God bless the victims of the storm.. we're here to help.
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RE: Mississippi AG goes wild on Flood - 9/24/2005 3:09:03 PM
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JimF
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Dean and Judy, and Steve, Thanks for your responses. Reading Steve's post first, I am sitting here wondering why I didn't think of coastal properties and windpool. Perhaps that comes from living too far from the NC coast, where that same situation would be normal. With your clear answers, I now feel pretty dumb in hindsight.
Dean and Judy, ya'll be safe down there and keep us posted in your travels. Have a nice weekend in South Padre!
< Message edited by JimF -- 9/24/2005 3:10:23 PM >
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