RE: How much can you really make??
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/3/2006 9:19:58 PM
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gordon1
Posts: 88
Joined: 9/16/2004
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not that my opinion counts, but I believe the hard sentiments towards the newbies is a direct result of the adjuster market being FLOODED with new guys-It has created a take it or leave it attitude on the part of management-Management feels that if someone speaks up or goes against the grain, then they can easily find someone else to fill the slot-Additionally, it has created a "buyer's" market for adjusters-The new ones don't know better so they will work for less than good experienced adjusters, which brings our compensation down-Don't take me wrong, EVERYONE deserves respect, at least if they are respectful, but I believe this is why alot of seasoned adjusters are hostile towards new adjusters
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/3/2006 10:34:31 PM
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gordon1
Posts: 88
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline
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What about asking the helper to get some 3 penny nails & toe nail from the truck & then yelling at him when he took so long to come back ?(because he was nervous & scouring the truck looking for them)
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/4/2006 12:23:13 AM
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adjustorlando
Posts: 34
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
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Wow!! Has this forum gone on for awhile or what??? And such great input from everyone-experienced & newbies alike. Very entertaining. Getting too long, but still valuable.
Some simple observations to consider: When my kids got their drivers licenses, they would be all proud and cocky (OK, we all were as it is a big milestone) but I'd remind them that even though they passed the state test, it still didn't mean they knew how to drive that well. That came with time. Alot of time. And practice.
Such as all these folks being run through 3 day training classes, boot camps etc. Passed the test? Congrats !. Now you get to come out into the real world . If and when a storm hits. If and when you get called.
When I started in this business as a casualty adjuster, I attended a five week school in Atlanta. When I arrived at my first assigned office, my supervisor told me "Now we're going to teach you how to handle claims" Hummm, and I thought that's what the preceeding five weeks did. Not true, not true at all. It's called OJT.
How much can you make? Depends on too many and varied factors. How many storms? Where are the storms? How many carriers? How many IA vendors? How many fee schedules are there? How many adjusters are there available? How many claims are reported? How big are the claims? What are the current local contractor prices? What are (were) your expenses? What was your initial investment in equipment and training? Are you talking gross or net? Pre-tax income? For someone to state a fixed dollar amount would be highly misleading. And like I said, with so many factors in play, you could only give broad estimates. And I wouldn't tell anyone any amount.
How about the caveat that mutual funds state: Past performance is no guarantee of future earnings. What I made in 2005 (which by the way is no ones business) was based on two major storms hitting the southeast, making the right connections and being fortunate enough to work CAT claims for about seven months. But, no guarantee it will be that good this year. Every year is different. Wouldn't even begin to tell anyone what they're going to make.
Life is a ****shoot. As a wise old supervisor used to say "we'll take a calculated risk" on this one.
And as grandpa used to say " It's not how much you make, but how much of it you KEEP"
Be safe out there and good luck to all.
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/6/2006 12:43:11 PM
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Rimfire
Posts: 1
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline
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I have watched this subject for a while.
I am surprised at all of the PROFESSIONAL people on here.
There has been a large amount of bashing of newbies. When I started working fire and explosion damage 20 years ago there were the select few that always were putting down on "newbies" and were quick to let them know that they were not worthy of the position. Maybe they were born with all of the necessary knowledge? I was fortunate enough to work with some old dogs that were very forthcoming with information and knowledge. It appeared to me at the time as it does now that the experienced one were only job scared by someone that may be more motivated than they are and are going to cut into thier earning capabilities. Which it what this thread started out to be. I myself have helped several "newbies" to get the proper experience needed to proced and make a very good living. The "newbies" that I helped along the way have never cut into my earnings. Several have gone on to make quite a bit more than myself. A question on how much a person could earn. Like in any job it all depends on what you put into it and if you are luck enough to work with others that are willing to help you on the way. This is my first post on here as I am not into a large amount of idle chit chat. I like to read and watch others mostly. But the way this thread has morphed I felt like puttung my 2 cents worth.
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/6/2006 1:21:12 PM
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Tom_Toll
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Austin, AR
Status: offline
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John, you will always find those ol timers that fear competition, but there are many who do not and mentor on a constant basis. I have mentored a number of people that have become very successful in this field. I would suggest you not pay attention to those older adjusters that fear newbies. I was a newby 46 years ago and had a number of mentors to guide me on the path to becoming a good adjuster, at least I hope I am.
That is one reason Roy Estes, myself and a number of others are starting the National Association of Insurance Adjusters, Inc. This will be a large table for all to engage in and learn from, without fear of reprisal, scorn, or chewing out. This venture is for the self gain of each adjuster, be he/she a newbie, or ol timer. This is something that is happening right now.
_____________________________
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/7/2006 3:48:26 AM
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racko
Posts: 228
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline
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What mandates an "awaiting approval"?
What has prompted these latest "awaiting approvals"?
< Message edited by Tom_Toll -- 9/8/2006 8:03:15 PM >
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/7/2006 9:05:35 PM
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LarryW
Posts: 202
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Grand Bay, AL
Status: offline
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Some of these posts about how we should all help the new adjusters appear rather uninsightful. I think everyone agrees that as independent adjusters, we are all engaged in business. We are subcontractors, contractors or whatever. Bottom line is that we are in business. As in any business, we have competitors. If anyone knows the first thing about economics, they realize that the price of any product or service is determined in the marketplace by the laws of supply and demand. Recognizing that we are in a service business, we must operate within those laws. Catastrophe adjusting pay schedules have been stagnant for the last 15-20 years. Why do you suppose? Has the demand for our services been eroded? No, quite to the contrary, it has expolded. What then could be causing this stagnation? Might it be the supply for our services? Well, coincidentally, the supply of "Cat Adjsuters" seems have enjoyed a much larger explosion. Twenty five-thirty years ago there were virtually no cat adjusters without 10-15 years experience. It was pretty much a minimum qualification. Now we are cranking out bona-fide cat adjusters by the trainload from the three day schools.
Well, excuse my brutal honesty, but if we are going to be in business, we need to think like business people. When was the last time you heard that Allstate, State Farm, Farmers or Hartford were encouraging and trying to help the newer insurers get ahead in thier business? For that matter when was the last time you heard about any of the vendors encouraging people to go into competition with them? Funny none of these business folks have grasped the value of hepling others compete against them. I don't know where their wonderful heart-warming mentoring websites are located. If anyone does, please send me an e-mail. I will take back everything I have said here.
Some of the oldtimers say they don't feel threatened by the newbies. I can only agree with that to a point. The point where the fee schedule for a 2006 assignment is indistinguishable from a 1986 fee schedule. I know many will disagree with my position and to that, you are entitled. If you really disagree, go out and get as many friends and acquaintences as you can find and encourage them to join our ranks. Even if not all of the older adjusters appreciate your efforts, I can assure you all of the vendors and Insurers will.
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/8/2006 8:05:02 PM
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Tom_Toll
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Austin, AR
Status: offline
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Remarks must stay within the perimeter of the forum. That is what constitutes "Awaiting Approval"
_____________________________
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/8/2006 10:53:48 PM
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racko
Posts: 228
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tom_Toll
Remarks must stay within the perimeter of the forum. That is what constitutes "Awaiting Approval"
Thanks for the answer. If some readers wonder where my question came from...there were a couple posts out here "awaiting approval" but they are gone/disappeared. Yes, really, I think so anyway.
P.S. Tom, thanks for your "Toll"erance with me so far. LOL!
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/9/2006 10:21:35 AM
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Agility Cat
Posts: 15
Joined: 6/15/2006
Home base: Asheville, North Carolina
Status: offline
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I received an email from Tom Doll, the one stated right above (post 253); I am glad that CADO does "awaiting approval". In reference to post 131, 132 on page 7, and post 195 page 10 of this forum. If you pick those 3, what does that could do? Liability, possible legal action.That is why I believe CADO does an "Awaiting Approval".CADO host this web site and is liable for its contents to display publicly infos that should not appear. My post 195 was to clarify the veracity of my licensure to the public, not to triger further critiques or other.
As I often say, there is a learning curve, and I think we all learn something out of all this.
Humbly submited
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/12/2006 9:47:44 PM
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gordon1
Posts: 88
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline
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LarryW's post#250 hit the nail right on the head, no doubs about it-Yes it is a nice thing to help someone out, BUT does when it comes to competition, we must protect our livelihood. We have families and bill collectors who depend on us. Most have no argument against the fact that our expenses are increasing while our fees haven't changed. I started in 1991, when mileage reimbursement was 40 cents per mile(fact), with only 25 free miles. How much is it today? Maybe 50 cents(fact) if you are lucky, but you have to give 50 free miles & some carriers don't even pay mileage. Yes, I did have a mentor, but I also had to attend a 4 week intensive training class in Atlanta, only to come home to find out I 1st had to learn how to handle the claims just as a prior post above mentioned. My mentor was my supervisor as I was a salaried staff independent, not a sub-contractor as most cat adjusters are.My mentor/supervisor taught me well for one reason & he was blunt about it. The only reason he was mentoring me was he didn't want to get chewed out & lose his job because I screwed up. The only reason I was hired was because he was sick of working weekends to catch up on work & wanted a family life again.His pay wasn't threatened by me because he was on salary. I didn't start CAT work until 1997. Not too long ago in the scheme of things. Back then, CAT companies wouldn't hire you without 5 yrs of daily experience. Now you get hired with 3 days of CAT camp or beauty school, or whatever you want to call it. The adjusting companies don't care that the newbies don't know the ropes because the carriers will fix the screw ups on the back end with the supplement. CAT adjusters aren't guranteed salary, so I can understand the reluctance to help the newbies. I don't think it is right to belittle them & be hostile. But I don't want to help someone else take money away from my family, by helping to increase the supply of adjusters.The newbies do contribute to the stagnant fees schedule.As supply increases, price decreases(fact).Am I resentful that newbies get a great career with lots of potential?Not at all, I just think it should be earned. Does McDonald's tell Burger King what's in that special sauce? I don't think so. It would be a different story if we all got salaries & were guaranteed income, but we are not (fact).
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/14/2006 3:08:21 AM
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rass3742
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/6/2005
Home base: Spokane, WA
Status: offline
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I'm not sure it's all about pay. As noted above, most carriers wouldn't have considered allowing an adjuster to work CAT claims until they had a certain amount of experience, just a few years back. We have to remember, the society we live in becomes more litigious every day; carriers have more to worry about than just storm related damages. When the carriers send untrained, inexperienced folks into the trenches, they are doing their insureds, and the industry, a disservice. This will cost them money, which will get their attention.
As Gordon points out, the carriers don't seem to care about the sub par work product of the newbie since they will have it cleaned up with a supplement. Two thoughts on that: 1) they will be using the veterans to do the clean up; that's good for the vets. 2) this industry is very cyclical; they will discover the errors and overpayment of claims being made by the inexperienced and change their approach. Likewise, in a “normal” year, they will not have the demand for the same number of adjusters they have needed the past two years; my guess is that they will seek a balance between experience and their fee schedules. That will not likely increase the fee schedule, early on, but if you are one of the selected experienced adjusters, it will mean work.
I think as we move out of the anomaly that was ’04 & ’05, so too will we see things shift closer to what has been the norm in years past.
As to the comments about helping mentor newcomers to the industry: I am all for properly training people to become great adjusters. My observations, however, have been that most (not all) of the “new adjuster candidates” show no interest in being properly trained. This is evidenced by their stand that they have completed a 3-day course, passed their licensing tests and in some cases even rode along with other adjusters, and should now be handed a stack of claims, while only worrying about how much money they can make. This shows no real concern about fully understanding the industry or being fully equipped to handle the tasks of an adjuster. There are plenty of carriers who have trainee programs; frankly, this is where someone who is serious about entering this industry needs to start.
_____________________________
Things are never so bad they couldn't be worse.
Count your blessings.
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/14/2006 10:05:08 PM
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LarryW
Posts: 202
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Grand Bay, AL
Status: offline
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Rass,
quoting you from above:
"As to the comments about helping mentor newcomers to the industry: I am all for properly training people to become great adjusters. My observations, however, have been that most (not all) of the “new adjuster candidates” show no interest in being properly trained. This is evidenced by their stand that they have completed a 3-day course, passed their licensing tests and in some cases even rode along with other adjusters, and should now be handed a stack of claims, while only worrying about how much money they can make. This shows no real concern about fully understanding the industry or being fully equipped to handle the tasks of an adjuster. There are plenty of carriers who have trainee programs; frankly, this is where someone who is serious about entering this industry needs to start."
You express my sentiments exactly. You ought to be an adjuster before trying to become a Cat Adjuster. I can't imagine wanting to engage another career wanting to get into the rapid fire situation of that which we have to deal with. To me, that would be like trying to book a fight for the heavyweight title without ever having worn boxing gloves.
_____________________________
Larry Wright
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/15/2006 12:02:41 AM
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rass3742
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/6/2005
Home base: Spokane, WA
Status: offline
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Larry, you're dead on.
It's like coming out of med school (or more apropos, pre-med) and thinking you have a chance at the Chief Surgeon position. You have to put in your time before you are considered qualified.
_____________________________
Things are never so bad they couldn't be worse.
Count your blessings.
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RE: How much can you really make?? - 9/16/2006 6:50:43 AM
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Catmannn
Posts: 27
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Duncan, OK
Status: offline
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VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!
1. Unless one of the a venders call and PAY YOU, you make nothing.
2. If you are new to the business, who are you going to replace?????
HOUTZ
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