RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars?
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/11/2006 4:21:04 PM
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shadow
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Gale,
Why don't you guys concentrate on writing the code that will make xact.,and all the others "open" I would venture to think that is what actually happened on the automotive end. Some third party software vender came up with a way to database the info from the big three and so the big three, to protect their bottom line had to become bedfellows of sorts. Just a thought from a wouldbe hacker.
_____________________________
perfect worlds are hard to find
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/11/2006 7:55:49 PM
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Gale
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Rick, there are forces reportedly at work with another established estimating software vendor that may do a lot to “open” up the use of software other than brand X. Regardless you can expect the landscape to look very different 5 years from now.
As to your last post I am told there is some database person who has figured out how to open both Xactimate and MSB claim files into a standard spreadsheet. The only problem with both of these bits of information is that the source in both cases is one removed from the original source it seems. :)
Remember Wal-Mart and Microsoft will not be the top player in their markets forever. GM losses out to Japan this year I understand as well.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/11/2006 8:55:27 PM
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joeddiew
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I hate to plagiarize Strother Martin, but what we have here is not a software war but “failure to communicate”. Before Information Technology was called IT, it was called Data Processing, a term coined by all powerful IBM. The data is the driving force behind all the software design, not vice-versa. The biggest computer systems in the world are owned by insurance companies because they have huge depositories of historical data they have to keep track of and that data has to have the same Access Method it had 50 years ago. So, the rub is in the data, not the software. If the claims adjusting business is going to become standard, they are going to have to standardize the data; computer programs can be changed, but tons of data and historical files and their file layouts is a different story. Sort of like dribbling a football, not impossible, but very difficult.
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Joe Williams
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/17/2006 1:02:46 PM
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jim1234
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What really would make sense in the software is to force some standardization. There are all the different damage assessment packages out there etc., but the problem is that once you have finished the damage assessment, there are all these other issues to consider like policy rules in various different states, what is covered under any particular policy and what is not etc. There should be some system that will not victimize the adjuster for not having interpreted the policy rules absolutely correctly, but a system that would take care of applying the policy rules itself! This would be a breakthrough in adjusting/insurance software! However, at that point the insurance co. might not need the disposable independent adjusters anymore as there would be no more need for shielding themselves from lawsuits by making the independent adjuster responsible!
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Jim
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It's the SECOND mouse who will get the cheese!
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/18/2006 12:22:33 AM
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PORTASATGUY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jim1234
What really would make sense in the software is to force some standardization. There are all the different damage assessment packages out there etc., but the problem is that once you have finished the damage assessment, there are all these other issues to consider like policy rules in various different states, what is covered under any particular policy and what is not etc. There should be some system that will not victimize the adjuster for not having interpreted the policy rules absolutely correctly, but a system that would take care of applying the policy rules itself! This would be a breakthrough in adjusting/insurance software! However, at that point the insurance co. might not need the disposable independent adjusters anymore as there would be no more need for shielding themselves from lawsuits by making the independent adjuster responsible!
Reading your posts, sounds like you are in somekind of lawsuit, and being a Disposable sheild for some insurer??? Hey E&O!
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R. Estes
Life is short LIVE IT!
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/18/2006 8:32:13 AM
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mh0825
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jim1234
There should be some system that will not victimize the adjuster for not having interpreted the policy rules absolutely correctly, but a system that would take care of applying the policy rules itself! This would be a breakthrough in adjusting/insurance software!
You're kidding, right?
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/18/2006 4:29:30 PM
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Jgoodman
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Yeah, and it would be really cool if we could just type the address into ClaimQuest.com, select a peril and a damage percentage and have the estimate print out.
No need to inspect the risk or deal with that troublesome insured.
Line forms to the left.
Jeff
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/19/2006 2:07:47 AM
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jim1234
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I guess I wasn't clear enough. We are already using software for damage assessment without having to keep all the numbers memorized and applying them ourselves to the damage, aren't we? I'm just saying that the rest of the process should be as much automated as possible also. People should not do the work that computers can do and there is awfully lot more that could be moved to computers' shoulders. Why are we carrying them around anyway? To enter the numbers manually that we have calculated on our pocket calculators? While carrying around 1.6GHz Pentiums? If there are clear rules to something (like policy) then that can be always programmed very easily.
_____________________________
Jim
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It's the SECOND mouse who will get the cheese!
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/19/2006 9:04:16 AM
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FloridaBoy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jim1234
What really would make sense in the software is to force some standardization. There are all the different damage assessment packages out there etc., but the problem is that once you have finished the damage assessment, there are all these other issues to consider like policy rules in various different states, what is covered under any particular policy and what is not etc. There should be some system that will not victimize the adjuster for not having interpreted the policy rules absolutely correctly, but a system that would take care of applying the policy rules itself! This would be a breakthrough in adjusting/insurance software! However, at that point the insurance co. might not need the disposable independent adjusters anymore as there would be no more need for shielding themselves from lawsuits by making the independent adjuster responsible!
The system exists. It's called experience and knowledge. Works great.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/19/2006 11:20:23 AM
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mh0825
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I want to respond, I just don't know how. If only there was a program that would interpret what I was thinking and reply for me.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/19/2006 2:46:48 PM
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joeddiew
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Since I like “what if?” discussions, I am going to take a stab at this. What you are talking about here is data processing; In the world of data processing , you only have about 5 different kinds of files :
1. Master Files….i.e insureds
2. Reference Files…i.e. prices and taxes
3. Detail Files…i.e. claims
4. Historical Files…Weekly, Monthly transactions and archives
5. Transaction Files…i.e. updates to prices and addresses
6. Transmittal Files…data being sent back and forth
So, if you want a stand alone , standardized system, then you are going to have to make a deal with the insurance companies or a third party processor to send you all their files and also their daily, weekly and monthly updates. The only analogy I can think of is ADP, a company who has successfully standardized a system of processing payrolls. There is a company in Canada called Symbility that sounds like a cutting edge type of insurance situation, where the adjuster in the field uploads files to a common system, but I don’t know enough about insurance yet to call shots on that. And Canada only has 10 million people.
Meanwhile, the American insurance industry is stuck with the current patchwork quilt of data and data processing software. The American business model.
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Joe Williams
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/20/2006 8:21:14 AM
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Jgoodman
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As a serious reply.
If a program were to apply coverages, the program would have to know every variation of the policy. I think it would be impossible to gather every variation of every policy, even if you did not make a software program apply them.
It seems every claim reviewer I have wants things done a bit differently. How would a software package account for that? What if the coverages change during the storm? Would the software producer be expected to change these coverage modifications that might change several times during a storm? That would be a large cost for the software developer, and one that is not being borne at the moment.
And as a general rule, computer users get lazy and assume the software is always right. Then they stop checking what it is doing, and end up making as many mistakes as if they did it themselves. Which makes the situation worse, as the users blames it all on the software.
Since the software would be doing much more of the the adjuster's job, would you be willing to pay more for the software? I bet not. Or at least when it comes to actually paying for it, I bet not. It is easy to say, "Sure I would pay for it", but much harder to actually do so.
Back in the day, I wrote several programs for people that told me, "If I had a software package that could do this, I would gladly pay X for it." I made the software do this and was promptly told, "But you want to charge more that the competitors do, why would I buy yours, it is more expensive." Most end user want more capability in their software, but do not want to pay for it. There have been many threads on this site asking why software is not getting cheaper like hardware is.
I used to have an ex-business partner who thought that software could be written so that a totally untrained person could be put to work as an adjuster. He wanted the system to apply basement coverages in flood, only demoing the items need to be demo'ed to replace the unfinished drywall you did have replacement coverage on, as well as things like when are the fences "good neighbor fences". His goal was to be able to field hundreds of adjusters, but not have to train them. Needless to say, after I left the company, it did not last long.
I am of the opinion that a well trained person is always the best solution. No matter what sort of software one creates, how would the software be able to tell whether a framing piece is burnt enough to replace, or can be scraped and sealed? It never will. Similarly software will never be able to tell if hail has damaged a roof. It is a much easier matter to teach software use to an potential adjuster than it is to train that adjuster to recognize damages and apply coverages. If it is difficult to teach a reasoning adjuster coverages, it would be much harder to teach software to apply coverages.
This whole subject reeks to me of people wanting to make the income without doing the accompanying hard work. In this world, greater compensation comes from greater effort. Storm adjusting is difficult work, software will never make it easy. That is one reason it pays well while you are working.
Jeff Goodman
Good Man Adjusting
Goodman Enterprises
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/20/2006 8:50:55 AM
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mh0825
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For a serious reply as well...
In regards to the software picking up on policy interpretation, Simsol has stimulated this field in the lines of the flood program. Currently, their system has excellent "audit" features that pick up some errors that may not catch your eye necessarily. I am certain that they will extend this field of audit checks to extend to simple policy provisions: Basement limitations, whether a home qualifies for RCV or not, etc.
To ask for a program that would be able to interpret ALL policies is simply not possible for many reason, which JGoodman has mentioned several in his above post. Who knows though? Maybe Gale or John already has their guys working on this to make it possible or maybe they are laughing at the idea and have sent this post to all their "software" buddies for a good laugh.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/20/2006 9:43:15 AM
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frankp
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Mat,
As a side note, we would never "laugh" at a serious CADO post and send it on to our "software buddies" either.
We added many "Flood Policy Audit" items because we know FLOOD..as far as other policy types, there are, and will be more, general audit type features in our system. There are many policy types, loss situations, state, city, and local ordinances, contractor preferences, carrier preferences, etc....
We simply believe in you, the professional adjuster, and try to give you a tool that helps you by not "getting in your way" as you try to do your job. I think that we are doing just that.
Keep up the good work, and be safe out there.
Frank Postava
CEO, SIMSOL, Inc.
_____________________________
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/20/2006 9:58:07 AM
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mh0825
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Thanks Frank... I was being facetious, just a little, with that. Thanks for the Class A response and your hard work on your software and listening to us little guys!
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/20/2006 12:47:39 PM
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johnpostava
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Jeff:
FYI, when you tell our software you are estimating a flood loss in a basement or lowest floor of an elevated building the system does not allow you to select items that are not covered under the standard flood insurance policy. That feature has been in our system since 1995 (first Windows version). Since then, we have added dozens of "flood" checks and audits. No software does flood better than our product. We estimate over 250,000 flood claims were estimated with our product during the 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons. Like my bro said in an earlier post - we know flood (we know the other policies too but I will let our users do the rest of the talking).
_____________________________
John A. Postava, R.P.A.
President
SIMSOL Software, Inc.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 4/21/2006 11:26:33 AM
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Jgoodman
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John,
And we discussed this feature the first time I saw your product run on a pen computer at an American Banker Insurance Group technology expo in March of 1992 before Hurricane Andrew hit. I was trying to sell my DOS estimating system to American Bankers at the time. I was at the time, and still am, impressed with your software, and the way you improve and support it. It remains one of the few times I have run an estimating system I did not write.
The flood policy is much easier to interpret for a computer software program since it is standard across the states. For dwelling and homeowners your might have 50 different variations for each type of policy, as well as multiple policies, DP1, HO-3 and so on. It is a problem on a different scale than the flood policy.
The DOS estimating system I was trying to sell American Bankers eventually applied parts of the flood policy as well. That was the CJET estimating system. But policy application is better done by the adjuster, not the computer program.
PS. One of the sights that most sticks in my mind was that American Bankers building in Cutler Ridge on the day I got down to Florida after Hurricane Andrew. It was devasted. The parking lots had lost every tree. It was the first of many times Mother Nature's fury has awed me.
Keep up the good work.
Jeff Goodman
Good Man Adjusting
Goodman Enterprises
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 5/1/2006 8:47:35 AM
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johnpostava
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Jeff:
You bet a remember CJET. Always respected your efforts because the system was designed by a field adjuster and programed for field adjusters (just like our software finds its roots). The idea was to scan scope sheets into the system and fine tune the estimate on the PC, right? Great idea - probably before its time. Tablet, PC and mobile technologies will now be leading the way over the next generation of adjusting software. Thanks for the comments.
_____________________________
John A. Postava, R.P.A.
President
SIMSOL Software, Inc.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 8/3/2006 8:06:25 PM
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Gale
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http://www.symbilitysolutions.com/news/news_080306.html
I guess it is over now.
Rick, in reference to your post #41 above you may find it interesting that someone has claimed to do what you suggested in that post. An IA vendor called me 6-8 months ago to say he had a guy building him a claims management system to receive live claims data from PowerClaim XML and Xactimate for starters. I got a call today wanting to schedule a demo. Naturally he started importing PowerClaim XML files first because we offer an Open Standard XML file structure that is clearly open and defined and it is his software of choice.
What caught me off guard was how he states Xactimate is outputting in an XML that is openly defined as well. I was told by a Xactimate sales person a few years ago the carriers was making it a requirement for them. This means with this CMS package as described to me will permit IA vendors to receive live claims data for storage and data mining from the field without having to use the estimating software vendors’ backend. Due to demand he has not started on accepting Simsol estimates yet but since they are now in XML as well then adding the ability to import and data mine Simsol claims should be a straight forward addition to his project.
Of course from what I can understand IC is the only vendor on the market to day that has not moved to an open XML output of claim files but how long can they be a holdout?
The exciting part is a software solution like this would permit an IA vendor to collect claim files from the 3 major auto software vendors and 3 of the better know packages plus now Symbility that Xactimate no longer has them tied up in court. With Symbility estimating software being free they may grow very fast if you can use it without the $5 per claim fee and still get an estimate back to an adjusting vendor or carrier. That kind of a deal could make it hard on the rest of we vendors if long term Symbility learns how to make money giving away estimating software.
Regardless for the IA this should in time lessen the demand/requirement to use just one brand of adjusting software. Maybe we started a trend when we introduced the Open Standard years ago to the property claims handling industy but it would have happened without HRI being around. Progress can only be retarded for so long.
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