Adjuster not paying for service
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Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 11:06:27 AM
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Robin
Posts: 14
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
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I process claims for adjusters using Xactimate 24 and I had an adjuster obtain my service as a result of an ad I placed on this site. I have had great success with adjusters from this site until today. Everyone from catadjuster has been helpful, knowledgeable and honest until today. An adjuster obtained my services, I processed a few claims for him and I have yet to see payment. He has stated a few times that I don't have anything to worry about but he doesn't respond when asking for payment. I only have his first name and email address and am considering placing it in this forum. Should I give everyone this information so other adjusters and Xactimate processors are aware? It is not a lot of money but it is the principal. He agreed to my fee and sent me the scope notes. He received the claims as agreed upon but no payment was received from him.
Thanks for anyone's advice.
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 3:31:14 PM
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Wes
Posts: 616
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Deerfield Beach, FL
Status: offline
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First give us the terms of the deal. How long has he/she owed you the money? Send him/her an invoice by certified mail to back up your claim legally if it comes to that. I know this isn't an excuse for your part of the deal but he/she may be one of these adjusters that is getting screwed by a couple of these IA companies that have been very late in getting payment to the adjusters. Can you give just a general ball park on the amount of money you are owed. Thanks
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 3:37:51 PM
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MRichardson
Posts: 60
Joined: 2/4/2006
Home base: Ocean City, Maryland
Status: offline
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With only a first name and email there's not much chance of a certified letter getting through. Sure, share with us what you have, maybe that'll flush 'em out or at least give us a heads up on who to stay away from.
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 4:55:48 PM
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Medulus
Posts: 366
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Lake Ariel, PA
Status: offline
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Here's my two cents:
As I told Robin in a private email, I think she did this the right way by withholding the details at this point. We can recognize the problem without having all the salient details aired in a public forum right now.
Now... to the adjuster who needs to pay Robin: If you value your reputation and do not want to be classified with the vendors who are frequently reamed on this site for not paying what they owe, it is time to pay Robin or at least keep in touch to let her know when she can be paid. She has provided a valuable service which is contributing to your income and well-being. If there are cash flow problems, it sounds like she is reasonable and will understand. Just keep in touch.
It seems to me there will be an increasing need for this type of service. We want the first few people who venture into this type of support services to have a good experience with us.
_____________________________
Steve Ebner
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 5:05:02 PM
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Wes
Posts: 616
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Deerfield Beach, FL
Status: offline
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Agreed, I would hate to see something like this turn into a sour or "more" sour situation.
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 5:09:39 PM
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katadj
Posts: 684
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
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There is no doubt, that IF the adjusters name were published, he/she would be chastised by almost every legitimate vendor/carrier and other adjusters for casting even more disparaging information to the public as well as our profession.
Pay up or else.
_____________________________
"Excellence often first appears as error. It is only in retrospect that wisdom emerges from ignorance and success from failure." Abraham Lincoln
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 5:26:22 PM
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therev
Posts: 21
Joined: 9/1/2005
Status: offline
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You know folks, as far as it goes, it seems like an effective idea to post the facts here. But the original poster only has "his first name and email address." While we are a business that depends on integrity, we also deal with facts. I would be hard pressed to prepare a report for a customer and have only the first name and email address to identify the adverse party. I just don't think it is a good idea to go public with so little info, even if all of us would be pretty sure we knew who the Slippery Sam is.
As has been alluded to by previous posters, I suggest you submit a document for the debtor to sign that will identify his/her invoiced amount and the activities you performed that justifies the invoice. Have them sign and return with a full name and address. Absent their desire to put their "John Henry" on the line, I would assume you have the pertinant info on the claim - company, claim number, etc. That should give you enough information to make a few calls asking for the adjuster who handled this claim, being careful to not libel them, but letting a supervisor know you are calling to clear up an invoice for work performed.
BTW- I think I would outline your plan for collecting this debt in your next email. If Senior Deadbeat realizes he is going to get a rep. for not fulfilling his financial obligations, he may be a bit more forthcoming.
Suggestion - next time get it in writing.
Chas
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/8/2006 10:24:46 PM
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swink_d
Posts: 259
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Lexington, NC
Status: offline
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No kidding... How could you complete an estimate without all that info? Never mind I guess you could.....Did you get a copy of the coverages?
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 12:24:45 AM
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Robin
Posts: 14
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
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He gave me the customers name and address and scope notes. That was all I was working with. I didn't question this because I have had good experience with adjusters from this website. He said all he needed was the written estimate so we renegotiated my fee. This is certainly my fault for not getting more information. He only owe's me $250 and I honestly do not think I will see it but want to pursue it just for the principal of it.
I emailed other claims processors advertising on this website about him so that they could beware. I received a response tonight from an individual stating he too did business with this adjuster and he too never saw payment.
I only have his first name, phone number and email address. I am certainly partly to blame for not getting more information so that I could take action if payment was not made. I will continue to have trust in adjusters from this site. It is sad that this adjuster is taking advantage of others.
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 12:34:08 AM
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swink_d
Posts: 259
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Lexington, NC
Status: offline
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Did you get photos as well?
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 7:44:07 AM
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olderthendirt
Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: homeless
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www.reversephonedirectory.com
Is it just me or does anyone else have a problem with adjusters haivng estimates writen by someone that has not even seen the photos? Guess I'm just an ole phart who believes the field adjuster has certain responsiblities and the Insured has certain rights.
< Message edited by olderthendirt -- 3/9/2006 3:27:04 PM >
_____________________________
Still sliding down the razor blade of life
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 8:19:54 AM
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newtonclaimstim
Posts: 154
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
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I had very good luck doing this, I was sent the entire I/C via comm central and wrote the
estimates. And then sent the entire package back, pay was as agreed and on time.
Good Luck
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 9:31:22 AM
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therev
Posts: 21
Joined: 9/1/2005
Status: offline
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I would agree. I have forwarded scopes to a fellow adjuster who uses a program required by one of our customers and not on my computer. It is a hassle to make sure he in-put my out-put so that the out-put I then received was worth putting into the... man this is confusing...anyway, I didn't like not being able to make changes to the couple of items he misunderstood. I had to email back corrections, etc. The only positive was dealing with an adjuster who understood syntax as well as the customer's requirements.
By the time I have prepared a diagram, organized my photos and prepared my scope, the hard stuff is done. Don't know why the guy wouldn't take the extra time to save $250.
_____________________________
Those that can, do. Those that excel, teach.
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 9:49:31 AM
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Dimechimes
Posts: 256
Joined: 11/3/2005
Home base: Destin, FL and Franklin, TN
Status: offline
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Dirt, I'm with you- I don't think the carriers would approve of this being done and guess who would get sent home first if they knew it? With the new privacy laws,etc..I'm not sure how they would look on sharing private claim file information with people they are not aware of handling confidential material on a claim.
They are hiring a licensed adjuster and there is a reason for temp emergency licenses..are these folks working the claims off site just doing data entry or are they adjusting the claim?
Personally, as an adjuster myself, I would think it would take me as much time to go back and review my scope notes against the entry as it would to just do it myself and be done with it than explaining my notes to others.
I do know some of the preferred contractors are having the estimator do the scope and photos and using in office people to do the data entry so maybe this is no different than that concept but atleast in this case, the carriers are aware of the procedure.
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 10:59:36 AM
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Medulus
Posts: 366
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Lake Ariel, PA
Status: offline
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Whether someone else writes the estimate up or not, the adjuster is still responsible for what the estimate says. Confidentiality is generally not considered to be breached by using an assistant, whether that be a claims assistant or clerical assistant. This would be as true for a claim adjuster as for an attorney or doctor, both of which professions also require confidentiality but use assistants,copying services, researchers, and other employees and vendors in the normal course of performing their work.
I have used assistants for data input, photo mounting, riding along to take dictation on my scope notes, and have trained other catadjusters on a limited basis. I spent about three months training a catadjuster four years ago who would work on my claims with me until two or three in the morning every day. He would often write up my estimates based on either my scope notes or on inspections we worked together. The only difference between that situation and Robin's is that Bill was across the table from me while we worked. Every estimate, diagram, report, or photo Bill worked on was reviewed by me. And I personally made whatever changes I deemed neccessary before my name went on the report. The clients paid for my wisdom and experience, and they got it. Everyone using Robin's services are under the same onus to make sure the final product is exactly what the adjuster wants to send to the carrier as his/her work. I wouldn't want to try to accomplish that without having the program loaded into my computer, therev. No wonder you were frustrated with trying to get the estimate written the way you wanted it. It probably is worth the extra expense of buying the estimating program in order to save the time of trying to get rewrites processed correctly.
I would much rather see an experienced adjuster using several assistants and reviewing their work before submitting it than to license every warm body in sight as an adjuster.
< Message edited by Medulus -- 3/9/2006 11:12:44 AM >
_____________________________
Steve Ebner
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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What are the dates of service? - 3/9/2006 1:21:01 PM
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newguy56
Posts: 36
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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What are the dates that you provided the document. You may get some protection from a copyright. You have, I believe, 90 days to apply for the copyright. Its about $30 per application, so you could copyright all the estimates. It certainly would give you much more leverage.
For more information, go to http://www.copyright.gov/
Also, since the adjuster located you through CADO, do you know if he has logged on since you posted this thread? If he has, I'd assume that he knows of this thread, that he's chosen not to respond, and then its time that you disclose his information so that the CADO community is more aware.
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 2:29:06 PM
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Dimechimes
Posts: 256
Joined: 11/3/2005
Home base: Destin, FL and Franklin, TN
Status: offline
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Medulus- I know it's common practice for independents to use assistants on site. This is different in my mind when they are farming this out to a vendor specifically doing work and brings in a problem for a carrier when private claim documents are being "sent out" to others the carrier isn't privy to knowing nor disclosed in activity logs in the file as participating in the claim. I can tell you working for a major carrier as staff, that you cannot even access some claims within the same company being processed by another staff adjuster for privacy reasons- may have been overkill but I can tell you the carriers are siding on the cautious side about disclosing any policyholders names and addresses from my management experience.
Robin- I meant to tell you that I hope that you have found someone to help you with a legal contract to be signed up front on your fee bills so you can take action in the event you suffer from others. I had to develop one for my staffing firm for non payment issues after experiencing a situation with a non paying vendor and the document resolved the issue for immediate payment. PM me if you need a contact to have one drawn up.
Others- I'm curious if your independent contracts drawn up with your IA firms you are working for don't address whose property the estimate is? I looked at 2 IA firm contracts and both clearly stated that the estimates are the property of the firm not the adjuster so I'm wondering if this copyright info is really possible? I've never heard of an adjuster doing this. Does that override a signed independent contract? Does it violate the IA firm agreement signed with the carrier?
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 4:20:20 PM
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katadj
Posts: 684
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
Status: offline
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It is a fact that once you create anything from your mind, it becomes "intellectual property", ergo, an estimate or photograph taken by you is automatically (C) whether or not it has the (C) notice attached.
Every one of the files that I produce has the statement, the year, my name and (C) at the bottom of the document.
I don't believe that an IA vendor contract would overrule an international agreement in Federal Court. ( By the way, does anyone have a copy of the IA contract they signed? Did you review it , verify any changes?)
This is soon to be tested , again.
We will see what we will see.
_____________________________
"Excellence often first appears as error. It is only in retrospect that wisdom emerges from ignorance and success from failure." Abraham Lincoln
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/9/2006 4:56:45 PM
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Medulus
Posts: 366
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Lake Ariel, PA
Status: offline
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The issue of copyright became a big one in the comic book industry in the seventies and eighties. Stan Lee, writer, and Jack Kirby, artist, together created characters like Spiderman, The Hulk, The Fantastic Four, The X-Men, and many other well known characters for Marvel Comics. Jack Kirby left the firm in the 1970's while Stan Lee went on to become editor-in-chief, and eventually CEO of Marvel Productions. The issue came in when the original artwork began to be reprinted and used to sell more comic books. Since it was work for hire, was Jack Kirby entitled to payment for royalties on the reprints? Also, who owned the original artwork -- Marvel Comics or Jack Kirby? The suit, after much wrangling, ended with Jack Kirby being paid royalties and in possession of his original artwork. Because it is work for hire, an original creation does not ipso facto belong unconditionally to the person who hires the work. The recording industry has experienced similar suits that have decided in favor of the creators rather than the record labels. Cases in other fields have upheld this principle, but I cannot cite the examples. Courts have increasingly decided in favor of the creator in these types of issues, and legislation in this field has become more protective of creative rights even in a work-for-hire situation.
_____________________________
Steve Ebner
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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RE: Adjuster not paying for service - 3/12/2006 9:36:24 PM
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smz02
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/9/2004
Status: offline
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Although the confidentiality issue is questionable, I think the Caviat Emptor motto is best served here. BEWARE of scams and make sure you get all the info you can on the person you are writing for. You may find that even the THREAT of contacting the carrier by using the claim number/client information will scare this adjuster into paying you, because he/she would not want the carrier or his IA firm to know about his/her questionable ethics/morals in dealing with YOU. It may also shine the light of ethics/morals on the adjuster in the handling of claims...
Steve
"no fancy quotes here, just bottom-line pricing"
_____________________________
Steve Zibilich, Property & Casualty / Automotive Adjuster
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