Painting the entire room
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Painting the entire room - 5/2/2006 9:19:56 PM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
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There has been some discussion on a separate post related to drywall repair, where some seasoned adjusters are saying you do not have to paint the entire room when there is a drywall repair. http://www.catadjuster.org/forum/m_20681/mpage_1/tm.htm#20715
I wanted to open up a discussion on this, as it relates to achieving a "reasonably uniform appearance". I have been doing claims for 15 years, and have worked for lots of carriers as an independent. I cannot remember an instance where any carrier objected to painting the room.
If it is a huge "open architecture" where this room opens up to that hall, etc, you have to pick a corner and call it good. Let's say it is a bedroom, not too many offsets - how many of you would only allow to paint part of the room?
Even if it's a small drywall repair, it's kind of like being a little bit pregnant. If there is damage in that room, and it wasn't freshly painted, the same paint from the original can often doesn't match.
It is a big deal in California claim regs, and I didn't see it any different working Katrina for 5 months. If you patch a ceiling and don't paint (or reblow acoustic) to the whole ceiling - there is gonna be a supplement. Painting a room is the same, unless it was a fairly fresh coat of paint that can be matched and the homeowner agrees to a reasonable point to stop the repair at a corner.
Bob Harvey
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/3/2006 12:06:42 AM
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margar
Posts: 237
Joined: 3/18/2006
Home base: Benton, KY
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Bob
I am with you 100% on this one , I always keep in my mind when I am scoping the loss that I am going to write up the repairs to restore to a pre-existing conditon.
While there are Carriers that will try and nickel and dime and have their file reviewers on the lookout for so called fluff.
This is not fluff a drywall patch or repair will definately in my opinion warrant at least a one coat for matching purposes.
Mark
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/3/2006 9:20:58 AM
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Big Bob
Posts: 185
Joined: 10/4/2005
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BobH, I agree 110%. Do what proper restoration calls for.
Loss restoration is not a fun remodel ( been looking forward to contractors coming in trampling all over my house so I can get it how I want it) Less is more sometimes. If the window returns can be painted ( can't tell anybody has been there) and the HO is happy. This is a win win.
The overall situation dictates the proper restoration.
My .015 worth.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/3/2006 9:26:57 AM
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sunshine2777
Posts: 22
Joined: 3/21/2005
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I think one of the worst instances of this was when I heard of a carrier giving only an allowance to paint half a wall. They did not want to even paint the entire wall over a repair, let alone a whole room. Sometimes the nickel and dime stuff gets rather stupid. The entire room should be painted and I agree 100%.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/3/2006 4:19:17 PM
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dcmarlin
Posts: 145
Joined: 2/10/2006
Home base: Morrison, CO
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I worked for a carrier that painted the damaged wall(s) only. If there was minor sheetrock damage on one wall in a room (let's say 16 sf), after patching the drywall, I was instructed to seal the 16 sf damaged area, apply one coat of paint (16 sf) over the sealer and then paint only that wall. This did not make a happy insured.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/3/2006 7:57:33 PM
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misterC
Posts: 45
Joined: 12/29/2004
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In California, where "matching" is much stricter than other states, I worked for a restoration contractor doing jobs for about 5 different carriers.
"two coats on the affected wall, one coat one the other walls" was the constant refrain.
One job I had the insurance company paid for painting several extra walls because the affected wall looked so clean and new compared to the nicotine stained walls nearby that the carrier was willing to paint them also (not the contractor's idea!).
On another job we painted nice new baseboards that made the other baseboards look dingy by comparison- same result as above, also not the contractor's idea.
One carrier in particular liked to insist on one coat, but most pay for two at least on the affected wall.
One good trick painters (or homeowners) can use is to have the primer(sealer) tinted the same color as the paint. Any hardware store will do this at no extra charge, and it works very well to hide underlying problems with only one coat of primer and one coat of paint. This is a trade secret that to my knowledge, carriers don't ask for, but it gives a very good result with one coat of paint.
Another issue is the quality of the paint. Benjamin Moore is more money, and some homeowners have it.
I am remodeling a mobile home, and I bought PVA (polyvinyl acrylic) primer for the cieling because it is cheaper, only $8 gallon. PVA is only for new drywall.
For the walls I bought a more expensive primer that will bond to the wallpaper.
Another paint issue is paint under wallpaper. Most wallpaper is hung on painted drywall for easier installation and later removal. If wallpaper is removed from drywall it should often be repainted too.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/3/2006 7:59:38 PM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
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Yeah, I would think that a standard practice of only allowing paint on one wall would tend to get rather noisy.
Historically, mankind has patched roofs and fencing. But when it comes to carpet & paint, you pretty much have to do the room to get them back to their pre-loss condition
Bob Harvey
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/4/2006 7:39:22 PM
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Catmandale
Posts: 48
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Home base: Bakersfield, CA
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Shall we discuss texture now?
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/4/2006 11:24:08 PM
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BobH
Posts: 103
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Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
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If you tear down to the studs (after fire, or flood) the computer database prices are fine. I agree that there are challenges when you cut out the lower 2 feet of drywall around the perimeter (say a water pipe broke, lot of rooms got water that wicked up). It isn't fair to only allow texture on the "new" drywall, because of the grief in blending with the existing texture.
I have seen this done many ways - so it is a great topic to air out. There are always exceptions to any rule, but my initial premise will be:
1.) If it is a small patch, allow some labor hours to match texture (and of course you can't prime/paint till it dries) The cost per Sf will be insulting on a small patch. If your database has an OK fee for drywall min charge that includes everything "ready for paint" then that is all you need. I worked for a carrier that pulled the drywall Min Chge completely from the database - so any patch I would view as a sheet of drywall (32 Sf) because you need to buy a sheet, and that helped.
2.) If the wall has the lower drywall cut out along it's full length, I tend to put in to texture the entire wall. I know that if you shoot the whole wall you may end up with bizarre texture that doesn't match the other walls, but it allows some labor to shoot the lower area and time to blend, in order to avoid a "worm" along the wall where new meets old. It's just a matter of money, and that is one way to bid it.
3.) Typically I do not allow for texture on "non-damaged" walls. But if the whole room has the lower perimeter drywall damaged, I will recommend replacing drywall up to 4' and texture all walls.
Whenever I do drywall work personally, it always takes 2 or 3 times longer than I think it will. That is a "reality check" that helps when I am deciding what to allow.
Bob Harvey
< Message edited by BobH -- 5/4/2006 11:39:17 PM >
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/5/2006 1:27:53 AM
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misterC
Posts: 45
Joined: 12/29/2004
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for ceilings with knockdown texture it is basically impossible to spot texture. The knockdown is made with little plateaus and if new overlaps old it is very obvious. This is a common ceiling texture on California homes less than 10 or 20 years old. It needs to be textured "corner to corner" after reskimming the entire cieling smooth. When I worked for the restoration contractor I only had one adjuster ever question this, it is well known already. Orange peel texture is however, fairly easy to spot texture.
Knockdown is normally sprayed with a hopper and compressor. Hand knockown exists but is not very common and looks different. It can be rolled on with a paint roller.
It was a big surprise for me to work in Louisiana and see textures that I had never seen before, like half circles made with a stiff brush, starting at one end of the room.Also I was surprised that the baseboards that are most common in California (711, streamline, colonial) were non-existent in Louisiana. Is every region like that, different mouldings, different textures? Adjusters with more experience please advise.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/5/2006 1:45:57 AM
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margar
Posts: 237
Joined: 3/18/2006
Home base: Benton, KY
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misterc
Here in Ky it is very diverse with ceiling texture. While we do have a lot of the popcorn texture, there is also a lot of homes with the hand textured swirl or known as stomped. The swirled textured is applied with a stiff brush that is about 8 inches in diameter.
There is also more and more of the knockdown or lace texture on the walls in the last 5 years.
I totally agree on the texture method for ceiling repair. If texture is damaged in a particular room a scrape and texture is necessary for entire ceiling area.
Mark
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/8/2006 3:54:25 PM
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Betrock
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/27/2006
Home base: Bradenton, Florida
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catmandale
Shall we discuss texture now?
Anyone have any pictures showing the different kinds of ceiling texture?
Popcorn, medium knockdown, heavy knockdown, orange peel, etc., etc.
It might be very helpful for newbies.
Thanks.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/8/2006 4:31:23 PM
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CharlesC
Posts: 130
Joined: 8/6/2005
Home base: Houston, Texas
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I would suggest going to Amazon.com or Lowes and getting some construction books of how to frame a house etc. so you would learn and have a field reference Also you might go to claimsmentor.com and see what information they have on line there.
_____________________________
Charles Calvin
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/8/2006 5:26:47 PM
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Betrock
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/27/2006
Home base: Bradenton, Florida
Status: offline
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Thanks, Charles.
Here's a quickie link to some photos that might help
others. I was hoping someone might have some that were
better.
Best to all.
http://custom-ceilings.com/photo_gallery.htm
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/23/2006 10:58:19 PM
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Lee S
Posts: 3
Joined: 10/6/2005
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Come on guys, what kind of repair would you like if it were your house.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/24/2006 1:04:49 AM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
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Lee, what is your point? You seem to be disagreeing with someone or something, but I really don't know what you are saying.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/25/2006 8:36:29 AM
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Lee S
Posts: 3
Joined: 10/6/2005
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I am agreeing that the whole room would need to be painted, I have never worked for a company that required spot or just the damaged wall painted. The same goes for textured ceilings.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/25/2006 10:31:01 AM
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BobH
Posts: 103
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Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
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Coolness. I understand, and agree.
A homeowner, faced with bigger and bigger deductibles, may end up "cutting a few corners". But when we estimate the scope of repair, to return to undamaged condition, you gotta paint the room.
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/25/2006 12:57:44 PM
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Lonestar
Posts: 13
Joined: 3/28/2006
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Its seems to me that the most effeciant, and cost effective approach to the carriers would be for us to estimate for complete repair the first time ie; paint whole rooms, retexture intire ceilings. It may seem a little more up front, but in the long run, client good will and less supplimental claims and another adjuster to fix the short cut would end up costing a lot more.
David
_____________________________
David in E TX
DO OR DO NOT!!!!!! THERE IS NO TRY!!!!!!
Yoda
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RE: Painting the entire room - 5/26/2006 1:26:42 AM
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BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
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Yep. This thread confirms that the normal procedure is to allow painting the entire room. It is unusual NOT to do that. I have never had any carrier complain, and I have worked for over 30 carriers.
Again, if you have a huge "open architecture" that keeps opening up to this room & that room, you have to pick a corner and call it good. If there is a tall entry that is damaged, and it opens up to a loft & 2nd story above, you are stuck painting the 20 foot walls but have to "stop the bleeding" where you can at a corner upstairs.
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