RE: Hail damage to brick
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 6/16/2004 9:59:39 PM
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Czar
Posts: 65
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
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Leam:
I think you missed the points of my posts.
1.Roofer/”GC” pointing out damages to brick that really aren’t there.
2.Window screens are not worth $18,000.00.
3.Insured has common sense to realize that window screens are not worth $18,000.00
4.Insured has the convictions to call the contractor on it.
5.Insured’s premiums are on a replacement cost basis, but still has common sense to know that window screens are not worth $18,000.00.
6.Insured has the convictions to call the contractor on hail inflated roofing prices.
As far as the neighbor goes, I frankly do not care about him or his contractor and what they are charging. And as for the GC’s yearly numbers… WHAT! Why would I or any adjuster care about what their profit margin is? Does this in someway effect hail damaged brick?
Now could you kindly stop posting your thoughts on contractor’s profit margins and insurance estimating schemes, so that this topic and others are not locked. It would seem that anytime a real world adjusting scenario or question is brought up that might actually be beneficial to other adjusters on this site, it is brought down by the same type of postings that you, Clm Man, ReconGui, and that Poe fellow continuously post until there is no choice then to lock the thread, thus having to have us start an entirely new thread that you will eventually clog to a grinding halt with your nonsensical and adjuster meaningless posts. Now where’s that green button that everyone is talking about?
Shadow:
Kile is correct I am questioning what if any damage there is to the roof, unfortunately the building is about 65,000 square feet and I only got part way into the roof inspection when the lightening hit. But to answer your question, yes if it does warrant replacement or partial replacement. Remember the policy is between the insured and the carrier, not the contractor. If the insured is willing to settle on $40.00 less per square then the inflated rates, I’ll get the agreed price with him. I have much success with this in the past when the contractor is being unreasonable. Once the contractor realizes that he is going to have to compete for the job as Jim suggests or have to negotiate with the homeowner instead of me, they usually back down from their “demand”, you know that whole image thing with the public and customer service.
Jim:
No worries here, it was just casual conversation. The insured happened to be a former contractor and stated that they would inflate insurance work as they knew there were “deep pockets”.
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 6/17/2004 7:26:41 AM
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okclarryd
Posts: 612
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Oklahoma City, Ok
Status: offline
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Interesting reading.
The contractor BS is really getting deep in most of these threads.
I've been using the little green button and got a whole page of "Blocked"
Fewer and fewer adjuster postings.
Hmmmmmmm.
_____________________________
LARRY D HARDIN
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 6/17/2004 11:34:50 AM
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trader
Posts: 1200
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
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In 1989 the Houston area had a 9 degree hard freeze on Christmas Eve. Un-insulated pipes in attic,s and walls (approx 97% of all houses) at that time. Thousands of emergency plumbing repairs. Any home owner who could charge a tire and trim the grass began doing thier own repairs as the pro,s had months of backlog list.
The attorney general in Texas,and the local district attorneys reached the media and blasted the "gouging" and it stopped and we recovered from the very large, high profile contractors. Let the sunshine in... it works.
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 6/18/2004 10:43:50 PM
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Czar
Posts: 65
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
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Leam:
First, yes it is a true story. You would be surprised what insured’s tell you during casual conversation especially when you have a similar job or things in common. As far as it being tracked down to my file, what would be my concern, I wasn’t the one inflating an estimate it was the insured 10 years ago. Second you obviously did not get my points, the INSURED was the one who said that he would take care of the screens in order to combat the roofer’s claim to O&P. So once again no worry about price fixing.
Third, I think Jim superbly explained my concern about the contractor and his contract with the insured. I just don’t think contractors understand that we owe you nothing. Today I met with the contractor on this exact loss. We took, or better yet I took 4 hours to scope the loss with the contractor tagging behind. When I finish, he asks me to send him a copy of my estimate, which I declined. I just couldn’t make him understand that he nor his company was any part of the claim process, and that he would only receive an estimate from me if I was asked by the insured or if the insured provided it to him directly. Well he goes off, “ I just wasted 4 hours of his time on this job”, and he might not get paid. Oh Well guess that’s the chance you take if you want this job.
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 6/20/2004 3:24:48 PM
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Guido
Posts: 13
Joined: 5/18/2004
Status: offline
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Easy gentleman.
There are great issues here, and an interesting question.
Let us start at the first part about: Hail damage to brick, and yet to adjust.
Then look at remedy, as well as options.
Finally, separate issue of the O and P, which could well use a separate thread. It does have its place and purpose to where it can benefit all involved (Claimant, Company, Adjustor, and last, but not least General Contractor).
Hail can and does damage brick. It is a very rare occurrence that I suspect is most often found around tornadic and hurricane-typhoon specific weather systems. We have seen hail damaged brick, and yes the hail was not that large.
We have also seen two zones of severely damaged framing-woodwork where the hail was not that large. It seems the wind, angle, velocity of hail, and density plus surface rigidity all may-have played a factor. The science of forensics probably is not that needed here, especially those that apply the knowledge of ballistics. My gut says that forensics is most heavily applied in the areas of "Fraud investigation for: Murder, Fire, Auto theft".
I believe Kyle provided very good indication of what to look for to help determine your adjustment findings, and further reading indicates that there was not significant hail caused damage.
Now, separate that there was no truly payable claim on the brick...let us look at the remedy. Many manufacturers and insurers apply a familiar clause of repair or replace of "like, or similar quality" (my quote). They are at liberty, unless specifically directed by regulatory agencies (insurance commission, consumer government offices, and more).
I believe this generally means that the Insurance Company can invoke their right to appoint a repair agent. There have been plenty of case studies to support the refinement of this and how to proceed in a manner that will satisfy the insured and insurer without involving a mediator, etc.
When a contractor, or GC is contractually involved then a court injunction may be implemented to cease their involvement in the initial repair process, or merely the option invoked. If the insured is truly dissatisfied with the repair or replacement, then they do have options.
Now, let us look at O and P. I am not sure, but do recall this being a topic of many trade related articles.
For starters: a few screens, even a dozen ground level...do not, in my opinion, require a separate or special trade class.
O and P can provide relief to both the insured and the insurer. It can, and often does (should) provide for a more efficient, professional and satisfactory mechanism to support the full repair or restoration in a claim.
Some homeowners are more than qualified to "GC a claim". We have one with a relatively new structure who is a Commercial GC and also was the GC on his personal home build. We still are working with him on the siding and quality control issues.
Others, think that they can handle the issue (whether they are successful in business, or just 'too smart for their own good'), and some that are actually fairly well qualified.
This can, and does remove some doubt from the homeowner, the insured, provide a central agent of accountability, and more.
Personally, I love working those claims...but they do require much more management, active hands on quality control, and involvement.
As to gouging and limiting of trade practices-fair trade...these issues have been addressed only in passing or via inference. They do warrant a separate thread. No one wins long term if there are unreasonable charges or inflation-gouging. Subsequently, no one wins long term whence another factor can restrain or limit remedies in a manner that is
not in both the spirit and letter of the law that is the policy contract.
Ok, please weigh in or start up separate threads. No reason to upset adjustors, nor shoot flaming arrows at us GC's. This is a valuable resource. Make it work better for all.
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 6/21/2004 12:42:13 AM
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KileAnderson
Posts: 199
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Baton Rouge, LA
Status: offline
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I'm laughing so hard I can barely type. What a piece of work.
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 7/4/2004 10:08:45 AM
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rorunner_77
Posts: 32
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: NW Mississippi
Status: offline
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I think a couple of these guys need to see if Kerry has need of them, cause it sure sounds like politition mumbo
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 7/5/2004 12:18:52 AM
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givemeroofs
Posts: 301
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, Texas
Status: offline
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rorunner,
I completely agree. Maybe the fetzer valves and flux capicitor also need to be replaced.
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 7/5/2004 10:02:31 AM
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okclarryd
Posts: 612
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Oklahoma City, Ok
Status: offline
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Y'all are simply not taking advantage of the technological advances in today's internet environment.
I don't get upset with the rantings and devious postings from folks that don't know schtuff from shinola. Not any more.
I let 'em talk to the hand. (The red one)
Try it...........you'll like it
_____________________________
LARRY D HARDIN
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RE: Hail damage to brick - 7/5/2004 10:37:07 AM
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Cecil
Posts: 3
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: North Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
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There is no prescribed repair for bricks if they are damaged by hail. The only time I replaced any brick, the damage was caused by wind driven debris, not the hail itself.
I was in St Louis for 7 months and on the first claim, the insured asked me about the hail damage to his driveway. I took my hammer out and showed him that after hitting it hard with my hammer, I could not duplicate the alledged hail damage to the driveway. The roof shingles which by the way had no hail damage confirmed the driveway pitting was not related to hail.
There are always exceptions to the rule. In those circumstances the use of common sense and prudent claim handling must prevail. Don't ever recommend payment for something just because.
Real good photos and consultation with the paying company would be wise. Just tell the insured that you will check and let him know.
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