RE: STATE FARM
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 1:50:15 AM
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rass3742
Posts: 131
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Home base: Spokane, WA
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Everything is cyclical in this industry. The carriers decide they can cut overhead by one or two adjusters if they put a "President's Guarantee" on the repairs made by their chosen contractors, and have the contractors scope/estimate the losses. A few months later they realize that average claim payments have increased, because the contractor has no check and balance, and is controlling his bottom line to the detriment of the carrier; so now they increase the overhead again by creating a re-inspector position. A year or so of that and they realize the re-inspector has brought the average claim price down a bit, but not as much as having another adjuster or two in the field. Guess what, we're back to where we were at the beginning of this post.
_____________________________
Things are never so bad they couldn't be worse.
Count your blessings.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 8:14:54 AM
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newtonclaimstim
Posts: 155
Joined: 4/26/2004
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They might not adjust the claim that is up to the inside adjuster, but when I was doing it for Allstate you had to be certified in Subro issues and Use Itel for all flooring issues along with drawing all effected rooms and outside measurments and condition reports. Not much left because the call center/ dispatch, triage coverage issues for final decision by the phone adjuster.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 9:13:43 AM
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khromas
Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, Texas
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This is a partial copy of the post I made in the "Maximizing Income" thread regarding contractors:
There will be NO maximizing income on a large scale because the parties that control the purse strings have a DIRECT incentive to do just the opposite. Our FEES are a direct expense to the company and can NOT be assigned to a particular file. We are like the light bill that gets paid for the claims office. Cost of doing business.
Our competitors are the carrier-guaranteed contractors who get sent out to write an estimate that gets looked at by an inside file handler who likely has little to no field experience. The carrier knows full well that the estimate will be over-written to an extent but they don't care! Why? Because the FULL amount of that 'estimate' now becomes the 'damages' on the claim and can be re-couped in increased premiums on that policyholder.
.........
Carriers will make a periodic call for reduced claim pay-outs but that is mostly for show. The 'cycle' of putting more adjusters in the field is generally shorter than the period of usage of the contractors.
To a policyholder making a claim, they have their immediate self-interest in mind to have their claim over-paid. They have NO desire to look at the big picture and the effect their single, over-paid claim will have on the big scale.
_____________________________
Kevin Hromas
_______________________________________
Definition of a LIBERAL: a person who is so open-minded that their brains have fallen out!
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 11:15:54 AM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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I purchase insurance and I am very concerned where the dollars are spent. I am almost as concerned about overplayment of claims as the president of the insurance company. Do I hear some of my fellow adjusters saying more is better ?
< Message edited by trader -- 10/6/2006 5:32:15 PM >
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 12:11:28 PM
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tiwiii
Posts: 116
Joined: 6/3/2004
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Kevin is correct. More premium justification is better than cost of doing business. Maybe not for all companies, but generally correct. The typical policyholder does not think in terms of the affect on premium, but more about reimbursement of the premiums through the loss.
Facts are that, as with every industry, business methods and models will change and evolve. Can you adapt and are you willing, if not you will be left behind with nothing. Polaroid had to focus on new products when their cameras became obsolete. Just because you can measure a roof, use estimating software, and communicate does not mean you are not disposable if something or someone else can do it faster, with less cost or better.
Just the facts...
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 2:19:54 PM
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ranger
Posts: 186
Joined: 11/20/2004
Home base: Bonham, Texas
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When I was with Farmers Insurance Group, in their Dallas Property Office, they had a Preferred Contractor Program for a while. While I was an inside adjuster there was about ten contractors on the list that we would asked the policyholders to use on smaller losses. The Program worked until we started getting estimates from tradesmen that were not on the program. An example would be the tradesman charging one-third of what the preferred contractor was charging . This was most noticable on a shower pan leak in a ceramic tile shower. Farmers did away with this Program after the overcharging was discovered.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 5:38:55 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
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Home base: Houston, TX
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Yes I have seen my share of x-mate mate estimates for shower pan leaks and 3 courses of tile in the $1,000. to $1,200 range. The yellow page guys would charge about 50% of this and be in and out in one day.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 5:57:24 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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I know catastrophe adjusters feel they can not be replaced; but I disagree.
I think it works this way. Baseball size hail hits a large metro area.
Homeowners report a damaged roof. When the cat. adjuster gets the assignment the storm and coverage has been confirmed and the adjusters needs to substantiate the loss. He/she does his job and charges the carrier $xxx fee for the service.
Plan two described in other post.
Plan 3. Have some one measure, diagram and photo the damage send the data to an inside adjuster to estimate and pay the claim for a flat fee per house. The future is now.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 7:08:40 PM
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margar
Posts: 241
Joined: 3/18/2006
Home base: Benton, KY
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Great then why not take your 45 55 or 65 whatever years of theology into the future and preach it to the choir at Big Blue and Big Red.
I am still relatively new here but I was still under the impression that this is a site for adjusters. And whether anyone wants to accept it or not Cat adjusters still fall into that category.
While I will admit this industry is headed down the tubes . The reason in my opinion is because of post listed just above. On the one hand you have a individuals like Tom and Roy who are organizing and trying to unite. And then on the other you have others posting such comments as Cat adjusters are easily dispensable.
And it is no wonder we are struggling to gain leverage when it comes to increasing our incomes.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 9:25:29 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
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Home base: Houston, TX
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You really give me too much credit if you think my post alone is destroying your income. I think the lack of weather is a larger factor.
I really must have a problem though as I can still recall my neighbor who was an air traffic controller union member who was replaced on a Friday Night by President Reagan and the planes kept flying.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 10:30:02 PM
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margar
Posts: 241
Joined: 3/18/2006
Home base: Benton, KY
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Let us set the record straight The weather and storms will come and go. I do not depend solely on the weather for my income. That being said anyone who has worked in this industry for very long knows how important it is to manage your resources. My Lord you of all people should know that with all the storms seasons you have seen.
However weather may limit or increase with each year various incomes. I do not feel that making a blanket statement that Catadjuster can be easily replaces with contractors and desk jockey,s is leading this industry in the right direction.
Ray I respect all of the wisdom and help you provide to this forum . I can say with assurity that you have much knowledge that I as well as others can gain from. With that being said I must also state that I cant go with you on this one.
Last word I am not going to get into a pissing match with you on politics . I will say this yes the planes may have continued flying when Reagan sold the Unions down the river. Me and a lot of my family members were Union Ironworker's during the mid - 80s . His debacle nearly starved a lot of good people out during those years. Reagan did a lot of positive things as president trying to break the Unions backs was not one of them.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/6/2006 10:48:34 PM
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rhking
Posts: 127
Joined: 11/13/2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: trader
I really must have a problem though as I can still recall my neighbor who was an air traffic controller union member who was replaced on a Friday Night by President Reagan and the planes kept flying.
Spot on Trader. Like or not, the claims handling business will change lots in the next several years as the carriers begin to use the technology that's available today to streamline (and shorten) the time b/w claim origination and final settlement.
Roving teams and task specialization are what's coming down the pike (SF toyed with this concept last year but Wilma prevented full implementation for Katrina claims). Hate to be a dark cloud but fee schedules won't be going up unless we have a repeat of '04/'05 - which ironically will probably only hasten the transition.
_____________________________
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it.
- DLR
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/7/2006 4:00:19 AM
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racko
Posts: 241
Joined: 2/17/2006
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Well looky here, this numbskull stumbled back into the original forums! Got lost there for awhile in that newfangled whatever that is taking over.
Anyway, while Trader might be right about what will be the future of claims processing...I'm still looking at this as a staffy kind of guy even though I've been independent about 4 years now. But always taken the staff look, hated but had to put up with the "contractor connection", and the "president's guaranteee". Those were on the staff side as well as the independent side. In a way it made my job easier on some situations, but always felt like a sellout at other times. The carrier would send out their preferred contractor, and then want me to go on a reinspection. HA!! Guess what?? And usually it might even be after the repairs were done or partially done...can you say betterment? Full main floor remodels after an icemaker line break, and so on.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/7/2006 11:03:05 PM
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PvtNvestigator
Posts: 120
Joined: 7/26/2005
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I am sorry, but maybe I am missing the point of this FICUS theory. Sure, on paper it sounds like a winner for the carrier with reduced Adjuster expense. But I have to question the quality of these individuals (contractors ?) with computer skills that will present the scope to the inside Adjuster. Seriously, anyone that has done this for a number of years knows that the "great" income is really offset by the road expenses, not to mention, the expenses that continously come up every month (mortgage, utilities, etc..). So where in this great theory do you find these qualified individuals that are willing to go on the road, leave their families, yada yada, etc..etc.. for less money than Cat Adjusters make currently? I mean those of you that keep bringing FICUS up may have the experience in years, but I can damn sure bet that you have not been on the road adjusting claims for some time, if ever. I personally spend a great deal of my off time working on my craft and I still find this extremely challenging. Maybe, I should go back to shooting film on the not-so-faithful.
_____________________________
William "Bill" Roberts
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/8/2006 12:58:25 AM
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racko
Posts: 241
Joined: 2/17/2006
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Do you have any celeb film of Paris or Pamela, that the National Enquirer might like?
Maybe that's your next ticket.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/8/2006 2:23:18 PM
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ranger
Posts: 186
Joined: 11/20/2004
Home base: Bonham, Texas
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Trader, the $1,000 to $1,200 price in Xactimate is for replacing all of the tile in an average size shower. Where is FICUS being used? How much would you estimate the flat fee to be and will it cover road expenses? While working hurricanes I keep my living expenses as low as I can and they still run $1,000 a month. I did not see anything resembling FICUS while working Ivan, Katrina and Wilma State Farm assignments. I do not want to hear anymore about FICUS until you can tell me what company is using it.
I have to agrre with many of the points that were made by PvtNvestigator. Racko where are you working claim assignments at this time?
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/8/2006 4:48:06 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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The inspectors would earn about $500.00 a day for 10 roof inspections and $140.00 per deim each day they turned in inspections.The inside adjusters would get a good daily rate.
The pan, curb , floor and 3 course's of wall tile runs about $550.00 to $600.00.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/8/2006 4:58:22 PM
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racko
Posts: 241
Joined: 2/17/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: trader
The pan, curb , floor and 3 course's of wall tile runs about $550.00 to $600.00.
This is off-topic but I'll ask anyway...
Absent a toilet malfunction/overflow that may have gotten the floor decking wet, what other cause of loss have you seen that called for a covered loss to include replacing the pan, curb, floor & only 3 courses of tile? I've had several losses like that claimed that were always due to grout deterioration and on-going seepage. In other words, not covered
Have also had some covered due to the pipe break behind the wall to the shower head, but then no one would ever agree to 3 bottom courses of tile due to matching issues, lack of cement board behind the wall tiles, alleged wicking, potential mold, etc.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/8/2006 6:11:23 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
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Home base: Houston, TX
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The old Texas HOB and the HO-3 before 1996 did not excluded seepage if it was unknown and unforeseen. The shower stalls had lead pans that would leak after about 20 years or so. In Texas and some other states the HO-B and HO-3 would cover these losses and the resulting damage; except the cost of the pan ($45.00) some of the losses would ran into the thousands with all the rotten studs, toe plates wet carpet, hardwood floors etc. I can not remember how many I worked as a staff or IA in 40 years.
The if it was reported soon enough. The pan and floor replacement was the SOP and the floor/wall was a contrast color or type and the match question was not a big issue.
Most states now exclude known seepage, or evidence of old seepage that a reasonable set of eyes can observe. The plumbing test was very simple, put an inflatable ball in the drain, fill the stall about 2 inch's after not using the stall for 2 days, come back next day if the water is gone the pan under the tile is leaking. When the tile is tore out the rotted studs, plates are replace with "T's and sistered onto the cut off studs.
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RE: STATE FARM - 10/9/2006 12:40:44 AM
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racko
Posts: 241
Joined: 2/17/2006
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This goes to show how handling of a claim can differ from one time to another, or from one geographic area to another.
Trader mentions an older policy form (Texas) that I would not have not known to offer coverage. He also mentions a good way to determine where the leak is. And it sound like the most common types of losses Trader had might have been with homes built on slab, otherwise the diagnosis is easier. Where I'm from, everyone has a basement. If this was your main floor or 2nd floor shower, you would see all kinds of evidence on ceilings to find the leak area. If it was a basement shower on the concrete floor, that would be different.
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