RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle gauge
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/23/2006 9:34:10 AM
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racko
Posts: 228
Joined: 2/17/2006
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OK, we have 2 so far. Now then, when I said "casual observation", I did not say "winging it". If one can read a clock, and is not geometrically challenged... the difference between 4/12, 6/12, 9/12 & up, is evident. Those are the cutting edges. Really, now, how many of you veterans out there use a pitch guage? And how many of you examiners can look at the risk photo, and already know? Justifying fee schedules is not a reason as I see it.
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/23/2006 9:50:31 AM
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racko
Posts: 228
Joined: 2/17/2006
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Inverse--
Your post beat mine to the punch...you make a good point. How soon I forget, having been inside until a couple months ago...there are "those" examiners with no outside experience that will question you on stuff like this. I heard it over the cubicle walls, and had to take extra smoke breaks to keep from choking those same fine folks.
Having never personally been questioned before, and then being inside myself and able to "guage that pitch" from the photos.... well, you've probably cleared that up for me. Seems it's not an essential adjusting tool, it's more of a CYA "prove me wrong" apparatus!
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/23/2006 10:35:45 AM
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inverse121
Posts: 57
Joined: 8/29/2005
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I had a rant prepared, but I refreshed before posting to make sure I wasn't off base. I think it can be summed up as follows.
Do I use a pitch gauge to measure a roof. No. Do I document any additional charges? Yes, always. Do I believe in CYA? Yes.
There are a bunch of newbies that want to be "seasoned adjusters" and when someone on this site says, "There is no reason for that," or "I have never done it that way." They take it to heart and think they can behave in a similar manner. So I write my responses in such a way that the new kids can think about their actions and document properly to prevent reopens.
I've had plenty of tag a longs think a 6/12 is steep and want to add for it until we climbed a weeks worth of roofs.
< Message edited by inverse121 -- 8/23/2006 10:52:21 AM >
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/23/2006 12:50:51 PM
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Betrock
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/27/2006
Home base: Bradenton, Florida
Status: offline
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The first roof of the morning ALWAYS looks steeper
than it really is!
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/23/2006 1:31:38 PM
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PvtNvestigator
Posts: 118
Joined: 7/26/2005
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As I stated before, I have carriers that not only require it, but need it written within the submitted summary and/or roof report. Plus I have had re-inspectors follow-up in the field and this is one thing that they noted as verified and correct. I too can visually tell the difference, for the most part, between 4/12, 6/12, etc. Racko, "winging it" had no reference to your post. It just meant that due to my personality, I am unable to leave anything to visually "winging it" or "casual observation" (if you like)if it is measureable and I have a tool at will allow me to do so accuratelyl. Especially since this estimate action takes less than 30 seconds. Thats just me. Others may be able to get along without taking a pitch measurement and if it is acceptable with their vendor/carrier, then good. I, again personally, believe that pitch angle is important in the accurate description of the damaged roof. To me it goes along with basic roof shape (gable, hip, etc.), roof covering material, ect. I have a inherent trait that pushes me to be as detailed as possible. Maybe I need therapy...
_____________________________
William "Bill" Roberts
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/25/2006 6:29:06 AM
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racko
Posts: 228
Joined: 2/17/2006
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Lack of response from the vets, or anyone else for that matter...so I guess nobody really cares or knows. What does that say? (PI, don't take this personally...I don't mean to infer "anyone else that matters", I was just surprised at the lack of responders).
And, I'm not going to rag on anyone that wants to give some pertinent facts...but are they? Pertinent, that is?
Have seen so many reports that start or end, stating "the risk faces south, north, whatever". And the claim is for an interior water pipe break, or a burglary, whatever. I realize this a whole lot different than a roof claim, and using a pitch guage...but tell me WHY IS A PITCH GUAGE a big deal (other than a teaching cost for the newbies)... can't they learn like the rest of us? That's why we carry a tape, and that's why we do what we do... some of this stuff become inherent, second-nature...not because there is a guage. I'd be willing to bet most of you vets out there can step onto a roof and already know within 1-2 squares how big it is regardless of the waste factors, that is...if you even had to get out the ladder before you knew!
Trader---maybe this is that "tough' question you were waiting for. Can you answer it for me? Whya pitch guage?
< Message edited by racko -- 8/25/2006 7:32:31 AM >
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/25/2006 8:26:20 AM
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CharlesC
Posts: 130
Joined: 8/6/2005
Home base: Houston, Texas
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If a FL roof is less pitch than 4/12 it requires double felt, that is felt overlapped at 19". That makes a big difference in the estimate cost. If not done according to FBC, including the nail pattern, the dry in will not pass inspection and the felt will have to be reapplied correctly before the contractor can shingle the roof.
I checked the pitch on a roof that obviously was a 4/12, tile roof like all the rest in the block. Wrong the pitch was 3.75/12, and the city inspector saw the exact pitch as 3.75/12, requiring the roofer to correct the felt.
Up North for all you guys wanting to work hail, a roof over 7 1/2 pitch gets extra money for steep and yes there is another up charge for even steeper roofs than a 9/12 (I think that is the next bracket).
Then there is always a contractor or two who will say months later that you missed the pitch and the roof gets the up charge for being Steep. IF you checked it yourself, you know what the pitch is.
_____________________________
Charles Calvin
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/25/2006 8:38:37 AM
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danandlea
Posts: 31
Joined: 3/15/2006
Home base: Denison, TX
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Contractors will also require a 30# felt vs. 15# with 10+ pitch. I know that's a minor thing, but still one less line item to adjust on the back end...
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Work Hard...Play Hard
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/25/2006 9:12:56 AM
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racko
Posts: 228
Joined: 2/17/2006
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Thanks for some feedback CC & Dandy, but it still doesn't go to the root of my question. And, Dandy...you may have just posted in haste but it isn't what the contractor requires, 'tis what code requires. Even then, the policy may not cover code/law & ordinance updates. Believe you are referring to ice/water shield, and then that is normally limited to valleys & perimeters regardless of pitch (as long as there is a pitch).
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RE: Roof Items trying to locate pitch gauge, shingle g... - 8/25/2006 9:31:39 AM
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inverse121
Posts: 57
Joined: 8/29/2005
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Racko, I guess you and I are gonna beat this thread to death, evidently Ray thinks this thread doesn't have any hard questions. Maybe if we both use his name he will chime in. Ray, what do you teach with regard to pitch? My guess is refer people back to 6th grade math class.
Need to substantiate pitch? Use the pythagorean theorem! You did perimeter and roof diagram, right?
I hope none of you got the 4 examiners to which I had to show the pythagorean theorem, so they could take the slope measurement versus the perimeter measurement to confirm pitch for their checklist. Then when they started calling adjusters telling them they forgot to add for steep pitch, I had to go back and explain that soffit actually increases the perimeter measurement. As I am not a smoker, I thought I was gonna have to go outside and begin a pack a day habit.
I should bill extra for teaching.
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