RE: They don't just hand you the keys
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 8:47:49 AM
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margar
Posts: 241
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Home base: Benton, KY
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StormSupport
Very nice post and response . I really enjoy reading your post as they are informative and genuinely heart felt. It is very obvious from the post you submit that your value system is top notch. The positive attitude and respect for the veterans in this business is a direct result of your upbringing.
By the way with only 6 years in this line of work I am not referring to myself when I speak of veterans.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 9:47:28 AM
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aporco
Posts: 124
Joined: 4/21/2004
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Mark, With only 6 years CAT experience, you are a veteran. Certainly not to the extent of a Mr C Carr, but a veteran compared to the crop of newbees that has sprouted up in the past 2 years. And if El Nino continues to keep 'canes from hitting this year, most of the crop of newbees will die for lack of nourishment ($$).
As to the entitlement mentality -- hasn't that become the norm? It's no wonder the jihad boys think we're fat, lazy and arrogant. In many respects,they are correct. Our society has most certainly entered a period of decline, whether this is permanent and/or the final throes, only history will tell. I'd like to think it's a temporary situation that will result in a renaissance of "American Values." If someone thinks there is something wrong with "American Values," kindly explain to me why people, the world over, will risk life and limb to get here. People don't flee to France as a general rule.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 10:57:19 AM
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rass3742
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/6/2005
Home base: Spokane, WA
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That's correct aporco. People often ridicule what they cannot attain.
_____________________________
Things are never so bad they couldn't be worse.
Count your blessings.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 3:18:58 PM
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LarryW
Posts: 207
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Grand Bay, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StormSupport
quote:
ORIGINAL: GAMAR
Rass3742,
Please rass please tell me about the majority of newbie’s attitudes of entitlement. What are your facts you are an adjuster (detective), what research have you done to prove your theory? You have a great following, but please prove your hypothosis show me your facts or is yours just opinion.
Chris, as in everything in life, if that shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on.
The statements were not directed toward any one particular person, they were a broad statements that are quite accurate.
I'm new, I won't even say I'm a “new adjuster” yet, (being licensed does not make an adjuster!!) and I’m even offended at some of the statements made by people, who quite obviously, are not only new in the industry, but apparently new to respectful behavior. All you have to do is read any thread and you'll see exactly what is referred to; the attitude of "entitlement", the attitude of cockiness because someone has gone through an adjusting school or even a storm or two.
I was raised in a family that taught me to respect my elders, and I don't mean just people who are older than me, I mean those who have more experience, wisdom, and life skills.
What I see that is offensive is a lack of respect toward the industry because someone who has a season or maybe two under their belts acting as if they have now reached the pinnacle of knowledge. It's also a lack of respect toward those who have spent a lifetime, or at least many, many years working in this industry.
Why does anyone need to challenge those who have years under their belt? They are offering their opinions and offering free training if someone will only listen and not feel the need to speak up and show them how their "new" way is better.
Sometimes I liken these posts and the replies to a herd of deer, watching the young stags butt antlers with the bucks who have learned that they will live a long and happy life by being careful, cautious, listening for bullets and dodging cars, not by bragging about the new antler buds that are growing on your head, not by playing "chicken" on the highway nor by challenging the hunters because they are in "your" forest!
(once again, just MHO!)
~M~
Meg,
Perhaps Gamar was just trying to prove Rass' point. As though he may be Entitled to an explanation.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 3:56:05 PM
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GAMAR
Posts: 44
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Larry I suppose you ar ENTITLED to just try to throw out insults
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 4:08:25 PM
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LarryW
Posts: 207
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Home base: Grand Bay, AL
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Suppose whatever you want. Are you suggesting that I insulted someone or that I tried to? I don't recall having done either.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 4:24:21 PM
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GAMAR
Posts: 44
Joined: 10/4/2005
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All I asked rass was where he based his findings, he told me it was his opinion and I respect that no problem.
His original post is right on in fact. It’s just seems that on the one hand the oldbies wish to welcome the newbies then start attacks has to how the majority of new adjusters are going to go home tail tucked between their legs and fall apart and that the majority feel they are entitled. I was fortunate to be able to work last year and earned a nice living while helping people which I enjoyed very much. Do I expect work this year? Highly unlikely. Am I worried about it, No. I have other work to do while I take additional courses from AICPCU. I will work on it. I am not so deluded as to think that I have the ultimate right to anything. At my age 53 have learned to learn. I wish the thread (How much can you really make) would just be pulled I think that has to be the most ridiculous question. I have always learned to worry about the work you are doing and the benefits will be commensurate to the work done.
As in any business where a large influx of new people come in there is a fallout of those who cannot hack it (my opinion better than 50% ) no scientific thought just opinion. I just get tired of the fact that because you have experience you feel you have the right to simply be rude to people coming into the business.
Which is it, do you welcome new people or do you not?
The fact is there are new people out there who can do the job just as well as an (experienced adjuster) these people are an exception. I am not including myself into that group I have more studying to do, more experience to gain.
If it were not for the likes of people like Tom Toll and Roy Estes, who truly express a desire to help this site would end up a sharks den.
< Message edited by GAMAR -- 9/16/2006 5:09:30 PM >
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 4:47:18 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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Sharks stay out in the deep water.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 5:00:49 PM
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GAMAR
Posts: 44
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Okay I'll stay out of the deep.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 5:23:19 PM
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tiwiii
Posts: 116
Joined: 6/3/2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GAMAR
If it were not for the likes of people like Tom Toll and Roy Estes, who truly express a desire to help this site would end up a sharks den.
Gamar,
Not true. There are many others on this site who want to help people who are new to the business.
In my opinion, the post regarding "entitlement" speaks to the demanding attitude of others who want to know all the "secrets" without taking the time to learn them. The fact is that recognizing a hail hit is pretty easy, but understanding other complex coverage issues is another. Roy Estes is correct about having the right attitude, but that is only a small part of what it takes.
There is no "magic" to being a veteran adjuster. I have met people with 3-5 years of experience who are extremely talented adjusters. The trick is to handle a variety of claims with complex issues and work through them. That will help make you better. The problem is that most Cat Adjusters handle the same typical kind of claims over and over, and so you won't get the broad experience that helps you understand insurance concepts and practices.
Sounds like you are heading the right direction in seeking an AIC or CPCU designation. I would not take offense, you may be here 5 years from now experiencing the "newbie drag".
Let me say I am not against helping anyone who shows the effort, intelligence, and desire to want to be the best. The fact is that it will typically take the average adjuster 2-3 solid years of working different types of claims before your good. There are always the exceptions.
PS. Storm Support - from what I have read of your posts you have an awesome attitude....except for one (I think)...jk..lol
< Message edited by tiwiii -- 9/16/2006 5:35:33 PM >
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 5:45:07 PM
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LarryW
Posts: 207
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Grand Bay, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GAMAR
All I asked rass was where he based his findings, he told me it was his opinion and I respect that no problem.
His original post is right on in fact. It’s just seems that on the one hand the oldbies wish to welcome the newbies then start attacks has to how the majority of new adjusters are going to go home tail tucked between their legs and fall apart and that the majority feel they are entitled. I was fortunate to be able to work last year and earned a nice living while helping people which I enjoyed very much. Do I expect work this year? Highly unlikely. Am I worried about it, No. I have other work to do while I take additional courses from AICPCU. I will work on it. I am not so diluted as to think that I have the ultimate right to anything. At my age 53 have learned to learn. I wish the thread (How much can you really make) would just be pulled I think that has to be the most ridiculous question. I have always learned to worry about the work you are doing and the benefits will be commensurate to the work done.
As in any business where a large influx of new people come in there is a fallout of those who cannot hack it (my opinion better than 50% ) no scientific thought just opinion. I just get tired of the fact that because you have experience you feel you have the right to simply be rude to people coming into the business.
Which is it, do you welcome new people or do you not?
The fact is there are new people out there who can do the job just as well as an (experienced adjuster) these people are an exception. I am not including myself into that group I have more studying to do, more experience to gain.
If it were not for the likes of people like Tom Toll and Roy Estes, who truly express a desire to help this site would end up a sharks den.
Gamar,
In that your quoted post immediately follows one of my earlier posts, I shall assume the "you" being referred to is me when you state that you get tired of fact that because (I?) have experience (I?) feel (I?) have the right to simply be rude to people. I dont know how diluted you may be or what you may be diluted with. I can suggest, however, that if you think I have been rude to people in this forum, then you are deluded.
"de·lude (d -l d ) Pronunciation Key  
tr.v. de·lud·ed, de·lud·ing, de·ludes
- To deceive the mind or judgment of: fraudulent ads that delude consumers into sending in money. See Synonyms at deceive.
- Obsolete. To elude or evade.
- Obsolete. To frustrate the hopes or plans of
di‧lute /dɪˈlut, daɪ-; adj. also ˈdaɪ lut/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-loot, dahy-; adj. also -dahy-loot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -lut‧ed, -lut‧ing, adjective
–verb (used with object)
1. to make (a liquid) thinner or weaker by the addition of water or the like.
2. to make fainter, as a color.
3. to reduce the strength, force, or efficiency of by admixture.
4. to become diluted. –adjective
5. reduced in strength, as a chemical by admixture; weak: a dilute solution.
As to which is it, do (I?) welcome new people or do (I) not? It is not my place make anyone welcome or unwelcome to this website. That is up to the administrator and/or the moderators. Whether or not I welcome new adjusters into this business, I believe I have made my feelings in that regard very clear in post # 250 of the "How much can you really make??" forum topic. Concerning your statement that there are new people out there who can do this job just as well as experienced adjusters: I don't know what job you are referring to, but I can tell you unequivocally that no inexperienced adjuster could perform the assignment (job) of which a lot of the experienced adjusters are presently working. Including my present assignment. We do have one thing in common Gamar, I like Tom and Roy too. We can also thank Roy Cupps that this site remains in the shallow water, as Trader so aptly put it.
_____________________________
Larry Wright
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 5:58:06 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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This is along the entitlement vein. Since early May I have had the original and 2 other boots camps for free. I learned a great deal about wannabee adjusters. I gave the Amazon site for the(House framing-John D. Wagner) platform construction book or $6.00 and the Lowe's Price for $18.00 and ask all to read ever page before coming to class, and bring it to class. I think the talley was 0-60. In 11 days of scoping instructions how to measure a roof, how to handle a serve windstorm on a vacant house and estimate all the damages, only the last 15 students were able to estimate the loss in PowerClaim, thanks to Lee Norwood "bootcamp beta" (5 days) I have made post on this site and the other site to review all estimates on the students own "practice house" in PowerClaim for free and my only taker was a nice lady who emailed a Simsol estimate as she did not have PowerClaim at that time.
None of the first two boot camps ever sent in the "homework " estimates that was the final exam to complete my efforts. All was not lost I found 5 excellent people I will work with if WOW hits.
PS: I tried a for profit scoping school and did not get one student. Guess the word got out- "you get what you pay for" hehe
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 6:07:01 PM
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LarryW
Posts: 207
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Home base: Grand Bay, AL
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Trader,
Sometimes we get what we ask for. So, be careful what you ask for. It is so very hard to help people. Maybe the newbies who think that the new adjusters can do this job just as well as the experienced ones should start their own boot camp and offer to review and critique estimates for us oldtimers. Might be good for a few laughs anyway.
_____________________________
Larry Wright
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 6:07:43 PM
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GAMAR
Posts: 44
Joined: 10/4/2005
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Larry I edited my post prior to you attempting to me show me your superior intelligence. I did catch the fact that I had used the wrong word, and corrected it before your post.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 6:10:26 PM
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LarryW
Posts: 207
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Grand Bay, AL
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I didn't attempt to show you my superior intelligence, I guess it just came out.
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Larry Wright
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 6:10:53 PM
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aporco
Posts: 124
Joined: 4/21/2004
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During Katrina I saw two types of newbees: (1) the ones who came to learn how to do the job correctly and (2) the bane of the industry - those who came to make some fast, easy money.
Katrina was the first storm where I worked with a crew and shared housing. Our office manager had put together a crew of 15 seasoned adjusters that mentored a couple of Number One's. These two guys worked in the office for 4-5 weeks at 16-18 hour days before they were given any claims (they were paid for the office work). They'd be at the office at 7 in the morning answering phones, telling insureds who there adjuster was, writing down questions, getting answers and calling back, calling adjusters, opening,organizing files, etc. Their day usually ended around 1-2 a.m. They learned customer relations with insureds and adjusters, they began to understand the estimating program as they worked with it in opening files, they began to understand policies because many of the questions asked of them were concerning policies. They had to go find the answer in the "bible" (a volume of all the policies available); they also had a pool a veteran adjusters who were happy to share with these young men who showed an eagerness to learn the adjusting business so as to do the best job possible. (Obviously generational misfits.) They then rode with a vet for a couple of weeks and finally spread their wings slowly. They were given 10 claims to start. Those were throughly reviewed by our checker who might have been the best the instructor they could ever have had. The Socratic method does work with quick, bright minds.
Number Two is what it is. They also learned that it's not fast, it's not easy.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 6:28:45 PM
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garyw
Posts: 11
Joined: 9/4/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rass3742
Gary,
Every occupation needs new life or it will die out.
Gary , NICE input. I agree 100% with you I am getting the feeling that we are not welcome by all.Though there is alot of positive advise on board, there seems to be almost as much negativity as well.I feel as though the qoute above is some what contradicting itself. But none the less it is a hard fact.So with that said, I am sure there are more who also know this. My friends who are already in the Industry have advised to "beware of the Wolves" they don't like it if you try to join their breadline, and they will bite.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 6:30:08 PM
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rass3742
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/6/2005
Home base: Spokane, WA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GAMAR
All I asked rass was where he based his findings, he told me it was his opinion and I respect that no problem.
His original post is right on in fact. It’s just seems that on the one hand the oldbies wish to welcome the newbies then start attacks has to how the majority of new adjusters are going to go home tail tucked between their legs and fall apart and that the majority feel they are entitled. I was fortunate to be able to work last year and earned a nice living while helping people which I enjoyed very much. Do I expect work this year? Highly unlikely. Am I worried about it, No. I have other work to do while I take additional courses from AICPCU. I will work on it. I am not so deluded as to think that I have the ultimate right to anything. At my age 53 have learned to learn. I wish the thread (How much can you really make) would just be pulled I think that has to be the most ridiculous question. I have always learned to worry about the work you are doing and the benefits will be commensurate to the work done.
As in any business where a large influx of new people come in there is a fallout of those who cannot hack it (my opinion better than 50% ) no scientific thought just opinion. I just get tired of the fact that because you have experience you feel you have the right to simply be rude to people coming into the business.
Which is it, do you welcome new people or do you not?
The fact is there are new people out there who can do the job just as well as an (experienced adjuster) these people are an exception. I am not including myself into that group I have more studying to do, more experience to gain.
If it were not for the likes of people like Tom Toll and Roy Estes, who truly express a desire to help this site would end up a sharks den.
Gamar,
Thank you for the clarification on your end. It helps to understand another’s viewpoint when their thoughts are expounded upon.
If I have made any statements that seem unclear, or have made contradictory statements, let me assure you that that has not been my intent. But if I have, let me try to clear those up.
15 years ago, I was brand new to this industry. I didn’t even know what a claims adjuster was. I was given the chance to get into the industry as a multi-line claims trainee. I won’t bore you with the tests and trials I went through, but will just say I wasn’t promoted from my trainee status until 2 years (same with the other 7 or 8 trainees that went through that year). I am only here today because I was given a chance. I also did not go into it with any expectations other than I had to prove myself and that failing that expectation, I would be out on my backside.
When I started this thread, I had two main lines of thought I wanted to express. 1) That I had observed throughout CADO a building consternation between “veterans” and “newbies,” for a lack of better terms. 2) That I had observed what I opined as a building degree of entitlement among the new folks about a vocation they didn’t understand, and, to that end, wanted to try and explain some of the processes that have to be considered and understood in this line of work.
I will concede to you that my use of the word “majority,” with regards to the amount of newbies that feel this way, might be more appropriately replaced with “some;” as clearly, I have not taken any polls. The word “majority” was used because I felt I had read far more posts/threads where this was the sentiment, than ones without.
Let me be clear that I have no problem with new people getting into the industry; I was there once. In fact, I even stumbled onto a thread earlier today from a young man in Florida looking to get into the industry. He wasn’t asking how much he could make, he wasn’t upset that no one would hire him even though he currently acquired his license; he was simply asking for guidance in how to approach getting into the industry. I gave him some insight on the differences between “independent” and “staff” adjusting; then I spent time looking for trainee positions, on-line, and was able to post leads on a couple of trainee positions and open houses in his area. I don’t say this to pat myself on the back; it’s simply a demonstrative example of my intentions and attitude toward the newcomers, relative to your inference I was attacking them.
I assure you I am more interested in making friends than enemies; but at the end of the day, this is a forum for opinions and I will, from time to time, choose to give mine.
I wish you the best Gamar with your AICPCU studies; I think those are worthwhile. I have my AIC and AIS and would recommend both of those. (Take the AIC first, as having it will give you credit toward half of the testing for AIS). I would also recommend ARM. Even though Risk Management is a little different than adjusting, it has a lot of the same theories. There is also the SCLA (Senior Claims Law Associate) program; I can’t recall who puts it on, but I’m sure you can find it on-line. The CPCU is also a great program, but is VERY involved. That might be a course better taken after a few years in the business.
_____________________________
Things are never so bad they couldn't be worse.
Count your blessings.
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RE: They don't just hand you the keys - 9/16/2006 6:36:34 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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I could not have said it better Alan. Great post and if it was done this way the older folks will be have to give up some day.
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