RE: Maximizing Income
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 4:06:42 PM
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Action
Posts: 109
Joined: 2/22/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gulfsun
I think that some of us forget that the new and in some cases younger adjusters are the ones that will be taking over for the older more experienced adjusters as they retire from this profession. It is a shame that many of us would prefer to bash or belittle the new folks. If we really care about this profession we should be more concerned about its continuity. The best way to do that is to focus on training and mentoring the new folks. I really think the claims scenarios presented on CADO are great....Thanks to Janice Toll for trying to get that rolling again. It would be fantastic where possible for us to offer ridealongs and mentoring to the new folks if that doesn't pose a problem with the carrier you work with. We shouldn't vent irritation or anger at the new folks because it was so easy to get a license. They didn't create the requirements, they only followed them and believed the hype. Lets do the right thing for the long term perpetuation of our profession and treat these people decently and offer your knowledge and support. It takes so much energy to be negative and so very little to be positive. Give it a try.
If I can be of any help or support to anyone please ask.
Gulfsun
Gulfsun,
Great attitude. And I can attest to your sincerity because of previous e-mail communications with you.
A license does not an adjuster make. Of course, experience (and tutoring from the more experienced) is the best teacher, but I would suggest taking the course for one's Texas license and any other certifications and schools you are able to attend. I just received my California earthquake (CEA) certification in the mail today. I'm working on riding with someone in the Biloxi, MS area. Keep up the good work.
Charlie
_____________________________
Charlie "Action" Jackson
www.magmagnolia.com
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 6:53:07 PM
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khromas
Posts: 611
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Home base: Houston, Texas
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It is interesting to note (as is typical of most entries here on CADO) that there are 21 responses to the original question about “maximizing income” and not a single one offers one iota of information to answer the request put forth. Instead, a high percentage talk nonsense about how some experienced adjusters are mean and rude to the newbee’s out of fear for their jobs. The responses from the experienced adjusters are sanctimonious in their tone and hypocritical to the bone.
First of all, I have NO “fear” for my job. I turn down as many calls for assignments from multiple vendors as I accept. After all, if you are working just about every day of the year, what is left? The reason that I can say and do that is that I produce a quality work product and I deliver quality customer service to the insured and carriers. They know that and it is the reason I am one of the first 5 people called for stand-by in a large Cat for a major vendor. (It ain’t bragging if you can do it.)
The only way left to “maximize your income” is to become proficient in the usage of every piece of technology that makes sense to use. There are many ‘toys’ out there that have nothing to do with your job as an adjuster. They just get in the way. How you develop and use the viable resources can go a long way to creating an impression with a vendor that sticks in their mind and makes them think of you the next time they need help.
I will give you a real-life example:
The vendor I have been helping out here in Virginia still requires paper files. Royal pain in the butt in this day and age but that is the reality of what we have to deal with. (I have joked with him about how ‘neat’ technology is these days!) I could have griped and moaned about it but would that have made any difference? Not likely … and I don’t sign the checks!
So, what I did was take all of the forms and reports he uses and put them into a spreadsheet using macros. The information goes into the admin page and automatically fills in 90% of the info needed on the reports and invoices. (Some of you have seen the flood spreadsheet that I made available. Very similar to that.)
I did this to make MY job easier and faster. Nothing else. But when I gave the vendor a copy of it, suddenly HE is using it on a daily basis as well. The end result is that while this guy and I had a good relationship before, now it is even stronger. The other night when I went to drop files off, he commented “Man, now you are going to have my clients after me to hire you on a full-time basis again!” (Originally that was to have happened after Isabel but circumstances in Houston with my wife’s business kept us there.)
Every one can piss and moan about how wages have gone down and costs have gone up. That is the story of advancing economies throughout time and is a highly sought after natural event.
Technology LOWERS costs. Learn it and advance. Fight it …and sit home.
Some of this is what I will cover in my Xactimate classes back in Houston …
WHEN we finally get home!
_____________________________
Kevin Hromas
_______________________________________
Definition of a LIBERAL: a person who is so open-minded that their brains have fallen out!
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 7:31:37 PM
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ranger
Posts: 186
Joined: 11/20/2004
Home base: Bonham, Texas
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Thank you for a good post on finally someone giving something that will increase income.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 7:45:34 PM
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Tom_Toll
Posts: 560
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Austin, AR
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There have been many posts related to how to increase your productivity as a cat adjuster. Just go to the archives and look for them. Sitting on your tuckus and complaining is not one of them. Learn your estimating system, learn how to organize, and learn how to ask your insured the right questions. Don't dottle at the local bar or coffee shope until all your work is completed for that day. I don't know how many times I have heard adjuster's sitting in a restaurant of coffee shope bragging about how many inspections they did that day. Obviously they had not done the paper work, which is 70% of your work product. What the examiners see is how you are branded. Return all phone calls everyday, without hesitation. Stay in touch with your vendor for updates and/or suggestions.
If you see 5 a day, close 5 a day and don't stop till your finished. I met an adjuster several years ago with 2 years experience staying at the same motel we were at. All he wanted to do was brag about how many inspections he does per day. He invited me to his room for some questions and I saw a pile of files in the corner. I asked him what that pile was and he said as soon as it rains so I can't go out, I will get the paper work done and close the files. Wrong answer. Vendors want contacts, inspections, photos, and a report, NOW, not when it rains. Use some common sense to your approach and you will be successful. Get all the training you can when not working.
As a second thought, learn how to scope systematically and do it the same way every time. If you cannot hand your scope to someone and say, write me an estimate off this scope, then you have not scoped properly.
Learn to be profecient and efficient.
< Message edited by Tom_Toll -- 10/3/2006 10:14:45 PM >
_____________________________
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 8:10:13 PM
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jwg
Posts: 36
Joined: 9/12/2006
Home base: Texas
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Absolutely Mr. Toll, The last office I was in, there were several adjusters that had the "run and gun" attitude, they inspected for a week and then spent days trying to catch up, and remember specifics of scopes. The office got aggrevated because no claims would be turned in for 7-10 days then the staff would be inundated with files from adjusters. Several adjusters were asked to leave because they would not do the work daily. I found it easier to do inspections and paperwork the same day, as a result, I was one of the last IAs at that office during the storm. as a result I made more than those who were "last dayed" early in the storm. Hence my income was maximized.
_____________________________
Its all just talk till something gets done.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 8:23:32 PM
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Action
Posts: 109
Joined: 2/22/2006
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Tom'
"...scope systematically and do it the same way every time." Amen to that.
Questions: Regarding the scope, do you take copious notes or do you depend more on drawings, symbols and photos to tell the story when you're back at the table? And can you give a short rundown of your scope order; i.e., property, roof, interior, question insured,...a little more detailed of course?
Charlie
PS: This (for me) is a time saver/maximizing income question and I would like to hear from more of you experienced guys as to your modus operandi.
_____________________________
Charlie "Action" Jackson
www.magmagnolia.com
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 8:51:03 PM
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Tiger
Posts: 28
Joined: 5/5/2006
Home base: Fort Lauderdale, FL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: khromas
It is interesting to note (as is typical of most entries here on CADO) that there are 21 responses to the original question about “maximizing income” and not a single one offers one iota of information to answer the request put forth. Instead, a high percentage talk nonsense about how some experienced adjusters are mean and rude to the newbee’s out of fear for their jobs. The responses from the experienced adjusters are sanctimonious in their tone and hypocritical to the bone.
Hmmmmmmm.......not one "iota" of information. I read one adjuster recommend focusing on things that allow you do your job better,....another pointed out that technology allows you to handle more work. Isn't that the jist your last post?
< Message edited by Tom_Toll -- 10/5/2006 1:22:50 PM >
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 8:53:50 PM
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khromas
Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, Texas
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Charlie,
Just a quick point 'cause we're in the middle of dinner.
(Time not eating is spent writing estimates!)
I always look at the interior damage first (if there is damage) BEFORE getting on the roof. That way you have a sense of WHERE TO LOOK on the roof for openings or problem spots. Deteriorated flashing on plumbing stacks, flashing problems on chimney, etc. After you come off the roof you can talk with the insured about what has been causing their problems in different spots of the interior.
If the claim is ony for hail damage (no interior), I will walk the perimeter of the home first looking for collateral damage before getting on the roof. Torn screens, dented compressor fins, pitted paint, etc. can give you knowledge of what you might find up top.
< Message edited by Tom_Toll -- 10/3/2006 10:16:20 PM >
_____________________________
Kevin Hromas
_______________________________________
Definition of a LIBERAL: a person who is so open-minded that their brains have fallen out!
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 9:04:32 PM
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gordon1
Posts: 89
Joined: 9/16/2004
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I think everyone got off of topic here.The purpose of this thread was not to discuss how to be more productive, which obviously will increase income. I should have given the thread a better name.For that I apologize. Several of the posters had caught that this has gotten off of topic, but for some reason (likely a ton of type A's), it is now on a tangent. THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD WAS INTENDED TO GET EVERYONE TO PUT THEIR HEADS TOGETHER(not against) & COME UP WITH IDEAS ON HOW WE CAN INCREASE OUR FEES, MILEAGE & PHOTO REIMBURSEMENT.Yes, increased construction costs have caused our fee bills to increase somewhat, but as a percentage of the loss, it has actually gotten smaller. No technology has not helped me become more productive. I can actually handle the same amount of files as before the paperless saga began. And for those who know it all, I am ALWAYS a top producer at any storm site I have ever worked, so please keep the rude comments at bay.I was hoping we could all cooperate & brainstorm to see how our fees can get increased. Tom Toll is correct that we should not bash or be rude to newbies. However, by experienced adjusters helping them, the experienced adjusters are cutting their own throats by helping the influx of new adjusters, which increases supply & lowers or stagnates fees. Granted, mentoring is a good thing, but should be resevred for adjusters who took the proper route to becoming adjusters (for example started out as daily adjusters for 5 years) and not the guys who took the rookie camp classes & want to continue their education at the expense of the rest of us. The newbies with the 3 day certificate should job hunt & scour the help wanted ads until they can land a daily adjusting job, then work at it for awhile before they get mentoring. You guys got me going off on tangents now. Back to the point, how can we get our fees to increase, such as unionizing, getting experience level certified,etc.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/3/2006 10:51:17 PM
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jwg
Posts: 36
Joined: 9/12/2006
Home base: Texas
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Gordon, I apologize if you think my comments were rude. The problem with a forum like this is the reader puts the inflection he/she feels the post may have and that may not be how the writer intended. My comments were not intended to be in any way harsh, just my observation.
_____________________________
Its all just talk till something gets done.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 1:13:34 AM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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This will maximize your income. Find a vendor or a local IA with good contacts, but a small property adjusting base during a large storm.
Do not hire any adjusters, BUT hire 10 people and train them in 3 days how to measure a roof, diagram and photos of the roof or interior damage.Get PowerClaim of Simsol software on a month to month and put it on THIER laptops ($500.00 for 30 days) Down load 10 inspections each day to each. Have the data send back after inspection. 10x10= 100 files per day average net bill after split= $25,000 per day.
Cost 10x $500. for inspectors $5,000.00
clerk 250.00
Supplies 100.00
Your 2nd adjuster $1,000.00
$6350.00 cost per day
Some can do it and some can't ! That is the road map Mr.Action Jackson.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 12:33:47 PM
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Action
Posts: 109
Joined: 2/22/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: trader
This will maximize your income. Find a vendor or a local IA with good contacts, but a small property adjusting base during a large storm.
Do not hire any adjusters, BUT hire 10 people and train them in 3 days how to measure a roof, diagram and photos of the roof or interior damage.Get PowerClaim of Simsol software on a month to month and put it on THIER laptops ($500.00 for 30 days) Down load 10 inspections each day to each. Have the data send back after inspection. 10x10= 100 files per day average net bill after split= $25,000 per day.
Cost 10x $500. for inspectors $5,000.00
clerk 250.00
Supplies 100.00
Your 2nd adjuster $1,000.00
$6350.00 cost per day
Some can do it and some can't ! That is the road map Mr.Action Jackson.
Ray:
Why address this to me? This is not my subject thread. But, no doubt, you must know I'm good at mapping and you sound like the voice of experience.
Good plan. It's been done (Alacrity) and is being done successfully, you're undoubtedly aware. My hat's off to those who've implemented and are doing it. Me, I don't have the company ties but I'll take any job, put my nose to the grindstone, eventually do that job better than most, pick up my $60K before leaving the scene, take a break, then build or remodel another house and double my money. That's maximizing, right?
Peace.
Action
_____________________________
Charlie "Action" Jackson
www.magmagnolia.com
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 2:09:41 PM
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yebolu
Posts: 50
Joined: 2/10/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gordon1
Tom Toll is correct that we should not bash or be rude to newbies. However, by experienced adjusters helping them, the experienced adjusters are cutting their own throats by helping the influx of new adjusters, which increases supply & lowers or stagnates fees. Granted, mentoring is a good thing, but should be resevred for adjusters who took the proper route to becoming adjusters (for example started out as daily adjusters for 5 years) and not the guys who took the rookie camp classes & want to continue their education at the expense of the rest of us. The newbies with the 3 day certificate should job hunt & scour the help wanted ads until they can land a daily adjusting job, then work at it for awhile before they get mentoring.
If adjusters who took the time to train you 15 years ago shared this belief would you have continued in this profession?
_____________________________
If you grow, you will glow!
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 2:27:58 PM
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gordon1
Posts: 89
Joined: 9/16/2004
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Yebolu,
That was the mentality by those in the industry.NOONE could become a cat adjuster without a minimum of 5 years experience adjusting daily claims. I never had a mentor because no one was willing to help because they were busy handling their own files. My mentor was my first supervisor when I was a daily adjuster. After my initial training, I basically trained myself.I found classes to attend, reviewed the files of other adjuster's and asked a quick question every now & then.Of course, I had learned from my mistakes by having to correct the kickback files. On my 1st storm, I was into it for 5 weeks, before I could get any of my files accepted. I maxed out my credit cards & was down to my last $200.00. Finally something had clicked in my brain & I was able to end up producing in the top ten of over 300 adjusters at the site.I learned out of necessity, which is by far the best way to learn.In answer to your question, I have continued, out of necessity.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 2:29:40 PM
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gordon1
Posts: 89
Joined: 9/16/2004
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Yebolu,Read my earlier post. The only reason I was hired at all was because my supervisor needed help.He was sick of working weekends & missed his kids. The only reason he trained me was so he wouldn't get sh-t canned for hiring me when I did not know much.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 4:30:23 PM
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StormSupport
Posts: 89
Joined: 5/23/2006
Home base: Coastal VA
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I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, but something was said in an above post and touched a nerve................so, although I know this isn't quite in keeping with the title of this thread, here goes:
Part of the reason there is so much negativity toward new people in this industry is something we talked about it in another post, "an attitude of entitlement". An expectation that "we who are new in the industry" are entitled to mentorship from those more experienced. No one is entitled to anything! If you're fortunate enough to find those who will share their knowledge, skills and wisdom with you, stick to them like glue! Listen to everything they say, take what you will, disregard the rest, but LISTEN and LEARN!!!
Another reason is lack of respect for the time that experienced adjusters have put in learning this most complicated profession.
Another reason is a lack of respect in general.
I know everyone has the right to speak their mind, but for gosh sakes, please, make it worth hearing! I don't mean to be rude, but the argumentative tone in the posts is tiring.
There are many opinions posted here, and if you don't have something substantial to add, there is no reason to argue just because don't agree, or just because you took criticism personally. If it hits too close to home, maybe one needs to look inside and see why it bothered them so much?? Rise above the need to strike out, make an inane comment, or post something derogatory.
Just don't say anything, it’s not necessary!
One of my favorite’s quotes is:
“Better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.” (Abraham Lincoln)
The experienced adjusters have spent time in the "trenches", have spent time becoming educated in various ways, have spent untold amounts of money on equipment. One season or one year, sometimes two or three, depending on the activity that particular year doesn't touch some of the "veterans" in this business with 10, 20, 30 + years.
Have enough sense or respect just to keep quiet, not argue, not take it personally, and just gain a modicum of information out of what is being said.
And, no, the "newbie’s" aren't responsible for low fee schedules. Newbie’s aren't responsible for the fact that there hasn't been a profitable land falling hurricane this season. Newbie’s aren't responsible for a jaded attitude of the industry. Newbie’s will always come along. The past couple of seasons have created a glut in the industry, but this season will certainly weed some of that glut out. No need for negativity on either end of the spectrum. Older ones retire; newer ones take their place, in every industry and profession, just a fact of life.
And, please, don’t take this personally and get mad, I’m not criticizing anyone, just offering some life advice. Watch, listen, learn, and just glean a few pearls of wisdom here in this plethora of information called CADO.
Just my thoughts, Just MHO.
_____________________________
~Meg~
"May you live in interesting times"
Ancient chinese proverb
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 4:53:23 PM
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newtonclaimstim
Posts: 155
Joined: 4/26/2004
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You may find the whole thing outsourced to oversea's call centers soon, so the profit margins go up. Again I say the bean counters have won !
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 7:28:01 PM
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dcmarlin
Posts: 145
Joined: 2/10/2006
Home base: Morrison, CO
Status: offline
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Based on the last couple of posts, here is today's song:
RUSH - The Trees
There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas
The trouble with the maples
(and they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade?
There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the maples scream `oppression!`
And the oaks, just shake their heads
So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights
the oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light
Now theres no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet,
Axe,
And saw ...
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 9:03:52 PM
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brentyoung
Posts: 26
Joined: 9/2/2004
Home base: Cedar Park, TX
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Newtoncliamstem- I find that hard to believe because Insurance Policies are United States Legal Binding Contracts. Here is a link about outsourcing that might be of good reading for you. http://www.insidecounsel.com/issues/insidecounsel/15_164/features/106-1.html.
Meg - I agree with your post. I would like to add something What I find hard to believe is the forum environment makes "newbies" seem like freshmen in College. Now, I am not meaning the "in left field, burger flippers" pulled in to throw at a storm. I am talking about the newbies that I have met were 40's to Mid 50's. I myself, early 40's.. These "newbies" came from well established and lucrative PROFESSIONAL backgrounds in LAW, REAL ESTATE, FINANCE, SCIENCE, ENGINEERING, CONSTRUCTION, etc. They are well equipped and/or capable of understanding how to read Policies (Contracts), business law and conduct themselves within the rules/codes and ethics. Like myself, I was tired of sitting behind desks for 20 years and wanted to get back outside, see the country, feel the sun or see the snow and smell the air.
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RE: Maximizing Income - 10/4/2006 11:20:21 PM
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khromas
Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gordon1
THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD WAS INTENDED TO GET EVERYONE TO PUT THEIR HEADS TOGETHER(not against) & COME UP WITH IDEAS ON HOW WE CAN INCREASE OUR FEES, MILEAGE & PHOTO REIMBURSEMENT...........Back to the point, how can we get our fees to increase, such as unionizing, getting experience level certified,etc.
Gordon,
Until YOU (or any adjuster) reach the point of negotiating directly with the carrier for a fee schedule, I guarantee you there will be NO increase in any of the areas you mention above. There is NO incentive for any of the parties in the food chain above us to unilaterally throw money down the line. NO ONE (adjuster, that is) is so invaluable to a vendor that they will not been shown the door as soon as they demand a higher cut. The reason? There are 100's of hungry bodies just waiting to take their place. Doesn't matter how many you close or how well they are done, all they will do is bring in 3-4 newbees and spread your files out among them.
A union? With the Type A personalities involved? That is a good one! Plus you have labor laws in 50 different states to deal with.
Experience level certification? Who has the legal authority to do that? NIAA? That is an even better one! First time someone gets "certifed" at a level lower that 'expert', BAM - lawsuit! First time a vendor hires someone based on a "certified" level and they are worthless, BAM - lawsuit!
A few years ago, a regular contributor here on CADO convinced a small group of people to pool their money ($2500 each, I believe) and they were to start up a vendor company and share the profits.
Sounds like a great idea, right?
What happened?
He went out and bought up a ton of office equipment and I think he was the only one who ever worked a claim out of the set-up. Someone told me he still had all the equipment in his garage. Before they went under-ground, he and a few other of the 'investors' were active in the formation of NIAA. Tell you anything about that outfit?
Back in 2004, we came as close as anyone has ever come in forming a totally 'adjuster-owned' vendor company.
The 'CADO Group' had 110 firm commitments for ownership positions and were in the final stages of negotiations with Citizens of Florida to be one of their primary vendors. They had told us - 'When you say your ready, you're in.' Maybe 2 weeks at most.
What happened?
The first of the Big 4 in '04 hit and everyone went to work. Plus, the leaders of the movement stepped back and saw how frustrating and futile it would be to operate a company owned by the adjusters it was supposed to deploy. (I believe the term I used at the time was "I don't want to herd cats".)
There will be NO maximizing income on a large scale because the parties that control the purse strings have a DIRECT incentive to do just the opposite. Our FEES are a direct expense to the company and can NOT be assigned to a particular file. We are like the light bill that gets paid for the claims office. Cost of doing business.
Our competitors are the carrier-guaranteed contractors who get sent out to write an estimate that gets looked at by an inside file handler who likely has little to no field experience. The carrier knows full well that the estimate will be over-written to an extent but they don't care! Why? Because the FULL amount of that 'estimate' now becomes the 'damages' on the claim and can be re-couped in increased premiums on that policyholder.
Maximize income? Work smarter, longer, harder that everyone else.
_____________________________
Kevin Hromas
_______________________________________
Definition of a LIBERAL: a person who is so open-minded that their brains have fallen out!
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