New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls
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New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 11/9/2004 9:28:54 PM
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digitalsaw
Posts: 9
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Home base: Umatilla, Florida
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I am just curious how many of you adjusters working claims for the hurricanes here in Florida have run accross claims where the insured has a newer cinder block home and reports water coming through the walls and soaking drywall and flooring. I have run accross this many times. It seems to be a simple case of these walls not being correctly sealed when they were first painted. Anybody have any thoughts on this situation and coverage for this?
Thanks.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 11/9/2004 9:31:10 PM
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JimF
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Post temporarily removed by Poster to review for compliance with the CADO website owner's guidelines to insure that generally accepted Free Speech provisions of law are not violated by exceptions to free speech recognized by American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, "fighting words" and sedition.
< Message edited by JimF -- 2/18/2006 2:23:42 AM >
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 11/9/2004 10:14:13 PM
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digitalsaw
Posts: 9
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Home base: Umatilla, Florida
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Yes. Thanks for the confirmation. I have not been paying for these damages. How about my other question as far as if a lot of the other adjusters are seeing this and especially in the new homes? As you can imagine, the insured's don't want to hear this type of damage is not covered and it would make sense this would be a construction flaw if the block is not correctly sealed. I own a two story cinder block home that is 30 years old and my East wall got bombarded with driven rain but did not have a drop of water enter my home. What have you guys (and gals) been saying to the insured's about this?
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 11/9/2004 11:15:51 PM
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JimF
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Post temporarily removed by Poster to review for compliance with the CADO website owner's guidelines to insure that generally accepted Free Speech provisions of law are not violated by exceptions to free speech recognized by American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, "fighting words" and sedition.
< Message edited by JimF -- 2/18/2006 2:24:10 AM >
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 11/10/2004 4:54:01 PM
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digitalsaw
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Home base: Umatilla, Florida
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Thanks for the link. That is exactly what I have been seeing. I appreciate the article link.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/5/2004 11:18:20 AM
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Steve F
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Jim,
I have found that a lot of this type of damage is from wind driven rain blowing through cracks in the stucco walls. Sometimes these cracks are very close to ground level.
I was wondering if the water never hits the ground and just blows through the walls laterally how are you denying the claims for surface water? Where does it say in the policy that water flowing laterally near the surface of the ground is excluded?
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/5/2004 11:32:28 AM
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JimF
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Post temporarily removed by Poster to review for compliance with the CADO website owner's guidelines to insure that generally accepted Free Speech provisions of law are not violated by exceptions to free speech recognized by American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, "fighting words" and sedition.
< Message edited by JimF -- 2/18/2006 2:24:44 AM >
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/5/2004 11:15:16 PM
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asawka
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Home base: South Florida
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I'd have to disagree with this crack-induced wind-driven rain theory. I've spoken with many local builders and engineers, and they are aware of the problem resulting from water saturation through the improperly installed stucco. However, I've never heard any of them mention wind-driven rain through cracking, and the homes that have the cracking did not usually have water damage on the other side of that crack.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 7:05:17 AM
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jlombardo
Posts: 340
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Home base: clearwater, fl
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Jim and Steve,
In reference to the need for an opening in the structure to have coverage for damage to the structure as a result of wind driven rain, this is incorrect when working with a standard ISO H0-3 4/91 or a standard ISO DP-3 7/88........
However, the H0-4,H0-6, H0 1&2, DP 1&2 all require that there be exterior damage/opening before wind driven rain is a covered peril, but not so on the H0-3 & DP-3....
Now Contents coverage is a different story.....there must be damage that creates an opening to allow the wind driven rain /dust snow,etc to enter and damage the contents, But structure damage is all risk on the DP-3 and H0-3 with boundaries of coverage established by exclusions..........Contents is named peril as are the H0-4,6, etc.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 7:55:10 AM
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okclarryd
Posts: 616
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Home base: Oklahoma City, Ok
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An improperly sealed exterior wall would probably be a construction defect which is a pre-existing condition. Pre-existing defects or damages are not covered as per the exclusion that specifies just what pre-existing is.
The other side of the coin is that if water came through the wall, there must have been an opening. No, ground water is not covered.
Each and every one of these claims will have to stand on it's own. I'm not aware of a "standard" that would apply. I've paid for some and denied some.
_____________________________
LARRY D HARDIN
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 8:41:07 AM
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JimF
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Post temporarily removed by Poster to review for compliance with the CADO website owner's guidelines to insure that generally accepted Free Speech provisions of law are not violated by exceptions to free speech recognized by American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, "fighting words" and sedition.
< Message edited by JimF -- 2/18/2006 2:25:14 AM >
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 8:45:00 AM
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jlombardo
Posts: 340
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Home base: clearwater, fl
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Larry,
The actual repair of the construction issue is not covered, but I believe the damage that results is....under the standard ISO H0-3 and DP-3 as stated in my post.
As far as each claim standing on it's own merit, well that is a given for ANY experienced adjuster.
Because water seeps through a wall, does not indicate that there is a storm created openning........
Think of the worn out roof that alows water into the interior of the risk and damages the ceiling ....Covered under an H0-3....repetative occurrences or damage may not be, but the initial damage is covered..........
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 8:58:59 AM
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jlombardo
Posts: 340
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Home base: clearwater, fl
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Jim,
Standard ISO H0-3 4/91...were is seepage excluded...other than from surface waters or waters below the surface, etc... or "pollutants"......
The long and the short of it, is if the wind blows rain in through a window(undamaged by the storm) and the rain damages the drywall, and there is a standard ISO H0-3 4/91 or a standard DP-3 7/88, the resultant damage from that occurrence is covered.
There is a period at the end of that sentence.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 10:47:52 AM
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JimF
Posts: 1323
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Post temporarily removed by Poster to review for compliance with the CADO website owner's guidelines to insure that generally accepted Free Speech provisions of law are not violated by exceptions to free speech recognized by American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, "fighting words" and sedition.
< Message edited by JimF -- 2/18/2006 2:25:43 AM >
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 11:03:03 AM
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KileAnderson
Posts: 201
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Baton Rouge, LA
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I don't see the difference between the closed window and the block wall. The block wall is not designed to leak and neither is the closed window.
I had a claim in 2002 after Hurricane Lilly where the homeowner had water running down the inside of the exterior wall in his dining room ruining not only the drywall and wallpaper but also the hardwood floor. He had gone into the attic and cut a hole in the blue R-4 board in the attic and was looking directly at the back side of the brick. The mortar was so pourous that you could actually see light coming through. After a 5 minute discussion with management we paid the claim.
Seems to be the same situation, the question is, what does the policy in question say about coverage for this scenario.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/6/2004 8:41:10 PM
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therdp5
Posts: 11
Joined: 11/24/2004
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Digitalsaw,
Were those homes finished with synthetic stucco?
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/7/2004 1:12:02 PM
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goose
Posts: 94
Joined: 4/19/2004
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I had a flood claim (and the companion wind), that the cause of loss was wind driven rain. I closed the flood claim CWP no damage and put the interior water damage on the wind claim. It was definitely going through the unsealed synthetic stucco walls. A contractor made the call on the unsealed wall, not me. I had a full plate and agree with JimF on not wanting to open a can of worms. But there were several homes in that neighborhood in a new suburb of Orlando that had the same problem.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 12/8/2004 10:49:00 PM
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digitalsaw
Posts: 9
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Umatilla, Florida
Status: offline
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Therdp5,
Most of the claims I have looked at with this type of damage had stucco on them. As far as synthetic I honestly could not tell. I have read through the discussion the cracks and my experience is that 1/2 of othe homes suffering this type of damage have cracks in the stucco and half do not. I had one insured insist that the cracks in his stucco were not there before the storm.
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RE: New Homes - Incorrectly Sealed Block Walls - 8/3/2005 9:37:44 AM
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RonA
Posts: 11
Joined: 8/3/2005
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I normally don't post here but:
Most of the time this happens in a hurricane. I have found that the walls that are wet usually are bearing walls on the windward side. Have you ever considered that the block does not give like a frame house.
The above meaning that the wind hits the walls, is diverted to the soffit and lifts on the rafter tails. When the rafter tails are lifted and the wind is ripping in there is a slight opening at the soffit where it meets the wall. As the walls are block, that water entering from the top plate drains down the block. Naturally it will settle out low but may stain the ceiling and walls on its way down.
I have never seen anyplace in the law or policy that the artificial opening made by a named peril must still be present when the adjuster inspects to allow for coverage.
When I was sitting out Hurricane Jean on the east side of Florida my slider was bowing from the wind at about 1.5 inches. Rain was pouring in this (artificial opening made by wind). In the morning that same wall had water marks all accross it.
Don't misunderstand, I also deny lots of wind driven rain claims but be carefull when looking at the total claim. If the other side of the roof is in trouble with large damage along with other interior covered loss, you may wish to error on the side of the insured.
A good claim is a closed claim. Remember also you must be in a position to support your denial. As stated above we avoid technical discussions with insured. Well, deny the claim and they are going to be pretty technical with the attorney.
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