Repairing Laminate Flooring (Full Version)

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Tom_Toll -> Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 12:49:36 PM)

I just discussed a claim with an agent who is an agent on a commercial loss I am handling. He and his adjuster are in an argument with Citizens over his Pergo type laminated flooring. He said they will only pay to sand and refinish the floor. They refuse to replace the floor. It got extemely wet and is buckling at the joints.

QUESTION? I have yet figured out a methodolgy to repair a laminated floor. The substrate is a wood substance and the top is a vinyl overlay, thereby making it a laminated floor. Can anyone tell me how to repair a laminated floor so I can pass it on!



RedSupraT -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 1:01:00 PM)

You should be able to simply replace the damaged sections of flooring. Pergo comes in a variety of standard colors so match will not be a problem. Obviously if the floor is old and in horrible condition, this may not workout. :)



JimF -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 1:32:30 PM)

Tom, I was exploring whether to put down Pergo in the kitchen of a house I was remodeling and there was no rush in time in making a decision.

To test Pergo for endurance, I took a 12" x 12" sample, then used it as a cheese cutting board, and then put it in my dishwasher for over 100 washes and it still looks brand new.

Have you checked to see whether the problem might be in the sub-flooring?

I do agree with the previous poster that Pergo can be replaced in sections as needed for repair without replacing an entire floor.

Based on my experience and dishwasher test, it seems to me all but indestructible.

I still use the same 12" x 12" Pergo section as the best 'cheeseboard' that I have, including those specifically designed and sold for that purpose.



jimjam -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 1:54:03 PM)

Wow! I can't believe tha Pergo can be that instructible!!

I recently adjusted a large Mobile Home Park in Arcadia, FL, for the Ballroom floor, where the exterior Clubhouse doors were blown inward by Hurricane Charlie, with resulting rain soaking the Pergo dance floor.

The edges of each plank of the Pergo were buckled up and very noticeable, which I interpreted as expansion and buckling. The finish was not damaged, just the joins where the Pergo sections met.

I need to learn more about this indestructible Pergo. AND - how could you ever 'sand and refinish' this flooring?

PS -This flooring is laid without regard to subflooring, in that it 'floats' between the walls. How do you replace a small section?

Thanks,

Jim




JimF -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 2:14:23 PM)

Jim, run down to your local Lowes or Home Depot, and they will sell you a 12" square sample for around $1.00. Then put it in your dishwasher and see if you don't get the same results I did. Makes the best cheese cutting board I have ever seen. (You don't think I would make up a story this preposterous do you?)

You are correct that Pergo floats between the walls, but you let the subflooring get wet and buckle with large bubbles below the Pergo, and you will see the laminate floor floating if not buckling in response to the underlying subflooring. The Pergo still has to be laid over something and around here that is still the subflooring.



rhking -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 2:15:09 PM)

I have Pergo in 1st floor of my house it is durable but it can be damaged. My three kids (all boys) have beat the hell out of it. Pergo is laid over a thin layer of foam (hence the term "floating") which lays directly over the subfloor. The problem with repairing sections is that most Pergo is tongue and groove and glued together (if it were nailed down like traditional wood flooring it is a different story). That means that when you take up one section, it all comes up. I have several chipped sections in my house and I have been told by a few flooring companies it can't be replaced in sections for that very reason. However, if you can find a flooring company that can restore the floor to it's pre-damaged condition-go for it. I don't think it can be done though based upon what I have seen and heard. Good luck.



C_Bond -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 2:32:24 PM)

Tom, I always thought that laminate wood floors derived their name from the fact that they are ply products, such as plywood. The wood substate below the vinyl is also laminated. If your discription of "extremely wet" means this material was allowed to soak in water then the laminated layers would draw water providing for the swelling at the joints that you discribed. This effect is exagerated when the pruduct is installed and your eyes have a lever plain to discern the height of the joint relative to the rest of the floor. Moreover, these floors are typically installed on a 1/4" layer of foam sheeting, irregardless of subfloor type. With this in mind how could consideration for only repair of particular areas be considered unless all water has been extracted from under the entire laminate floor. This would require the replacement of the foam layer which acts as a sponge. I'm sure you see where this is going.

I agree with the other posters in that portions of the floor could be replaced. But it has been my experience that once the seams have swollen this product has sustained unrepairable damage. Why has the carrier refused to pay? If the seams are swollen the damage is there.

I am currently working a residential claim with similar damage. The floor looked fine except for the seams. The carrier never flinched when informed that replacement was the appropriate action. I am curious myself as to the repairability of this product but have yet to hear of any.



khromas -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 3:41:18 PM)

A few things to keep in mind - "Pergo" is a propietary brand name for a particular type of laminated flooring. There are numerous other manufacturers of laminated floor products out on the market today.

For a comprehensive look at the 'Pergo' line, go to pergo.com. This is what I found there:

The Pergo Warranty
All Pergo flooring is warranted against wear-through-stains and fading and will resist water damage from everyday spills and damp mopping when water is promptly removed. Some Pergo flooring has additional warranty coverage. See your individual warranty details or your authorized Pergo dealer for more information. (Underline added.)


I found this interesting information on the warranty page regarding 'repairability' -
20. REPAIRING MINOR DAMAGE TO PERGO FLOORS:
Minor damage to the floor, such as a small chip or nail or screw hole in the wall trim, can easily be fixed or filled using Pergo Finishing Putty. (Underline added by me.)
(There are then a few steps listed for repairing with PUTTY!)

21. PLANK REPLACEMENT Purchase Installation Video Item #81876 for installation instruction and plank replacement instruction for glue free and pre-applied glued flooring. (Underline added.)

Anyone want to buy the video and enlighten us all?

From practical experience as a former contractor, I do not think I could effectively repair a laminated floor that had been edge-glued. I don't think I could get a clean enough joint to bring them back together. Now days there are the 'snap' type floors that use no glue which could easily be repaired. Start at the nearest wall and remove the planks out to the damaged area. Most manufacturers claim that there is no difference in the product color from run to run. Now, having said that, I have a wood-grained laminate in my study here in Houston. I also have a rolling desk chair with hard plastic rollars on it that has rubbed the gloss off of the laminate in the area right in front of the desk. (Now I have a soft-rubber mat.) I figure the floor will have to be replaced if I ever sell.



Tom_Toll -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 5:43:58 PM)

Jim, I have worked too many claims with the laminated floor down. Not one has been repairable. Had one contractor in Arkasnsas that guarnteed he could spot repair and if not, he would replace at his expense. Paid him based on an agreed amount to repair. He could not repair and decided he would stand on his word and replaced it. Fortunately it was a small floor area.

I had a friend who laid down a new Pergo and that night their dishwasher leaked. All the flooring buckled and they were told by Lowe's that under the circumstances, it would all have to be replaced. I would not, under any circumstances, put a laminate floor down in my house.

The agent I speak of has a condo on the 14th floor and it has concrete as a subfloor. So, no, don't think the sub flooring is warping, oh wait, this is Florida, I take that back.

Laminate floors cannot be sanded and refinished. I have not idea whose brainstorm that is, but it is not possible. The entire product is laminate and not sandable.



katadj -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 5:52:32 PM)

Have to agree with Tom and those that concur. A wood laminate floor, usually a T&G application, when wetted severly to the point of cupping is not repairable, IMHO.

The Pergo and other laminated products are impossible to sand and finish.

I just put in a 750SF 1"thich x ramdom with to 20" wide Red Oak, Now that You can work with........



JimF -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 6:18:47 PM)

Tom, I agree with these floors cannot be repaired by sanding, and like you have always replaced the room floor sections in their entirety. I still think Pergo makes a great cheese cutting board though.



trader -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 6:34:55 PM)

Repair on a room full of Pergo type floor makes as much sense as removing rubber pad under $15.00 per yard carpet and let the fans run for 3 days to dry out the carpet. Good $$$ wasted but the contractor is smiling.



olderthendirt -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 7:32:23 PM)

Jim to make your test valid, leave your cutting board in a tub full of water over night. Let us know the results.



mhack -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 7:46:29 PM)

If the flooring is a laminate (like Pergo brand) it cannot be "refinished"... but often you can replace damaged areas with LKQ like, kind, quality Laminate pergo does not have a wood surface



mhack -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/14/2005 7:54:49 PM)

I'm sorry, I didn't express myself in the last post very well. I meant you can replace damaged sections usually (sometimes that finish/brand/style is no longer available, though) .. but in no way can you refinish laminate (ie name brand pergo) flooring since it a laminate photo type finish under a protective film. It is not wood!



Big T -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/17/2005 10:55:17 PM)

I have had extensive experience with laminate flooring damages. From the above:

1. No laminate can be sanded. If you look at at manufacturers site, this should be stated. Plus the actual layer is about .1 inch thick
2. Pergo, for instance, comes in grades. The highest grade has a warranty that needs to be examined in regards to the cause of loss
3. Repairs rarely work. This is because the time it takes to properly remove the damage, set up and rout the groove and lay the first piece of the new floor usually is offset by just replacing
4. The swollen edges will never properly dry out
5. Plus the color between batches isn't consistant over several years of manufacturing, so the new may not match the old

So I almost always recommend replacementand the carrier agrees. If the floor is only a year or so old and there is minor damage to the groove side (because it's laid from groove to tongue) you may be able to repair it



LarryW -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/18/2005 6:26:56 AM)

But when it comes to cutting the cheese, Jim Flynt may indeed be the expert. Lets all listen to him (from a safe distance).



Doug -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/27/2005 11:24:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom_Toll

I just discussed a claim with an agent who is an agent on a commercial loss I am handling. He and his adjuster are in an argument with Citizens over his Pergo type laminated flooring. He said they will only pay to sand and refinish the floor. ]


I am currently working Citizens claims exclusively. This sounds like an isolated incident. The claims examiner is just uninformed if he is sending this back on those grounds --- print off these forum responses and send to him if it is still an issue. I have replaced thousands of sq. ft. of laminated flooring with no kick backs. Although photos of damage like this are sometimes tricky--- i have to use several angles to catch the action sometimes if the damage is subtle, and sometimes the messed-up floor still looks good in the picture..



JimF -> RE: Repairing Laminate Flooring (1/27/2005 11:38:59 PM)

Memo to Larry W: Rats



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