RE: How do the vendors stack up?
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 9:45:35 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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Oh coverage is complicated. All fire and EC coverage in the world covers, Windstorm, Hurricane & Hail, and the event made world wide news 2-3 days before the adjuster was deployed. No automobile,s in the driveway are not covered while in the drivewayunder the Homeowners but your supervisor will handle the fine print, just follow the form we gave you and have them call me with thier questions, our lines are open 24/7.
No dont discuss that with them just have them call the question line.
Dont worry, we trained you correctly, if you feel unsure of youself, just ask them to call the question line open 24/7.
Don,t get into a dialog with the customer, tell them you must inspect 20 houses per day and you must go to your next one, and to call your supervisor he/she has all the answers they have been adjusters for years.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 10:01:04 PM
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JimF
Posts: 1323
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Gale, with all due respects, you and I simply disagree on our vision of what cat adjusting is and should be. But I don't think I stand out there alone in my views in that I think the general public, affected insureds, the press and media, and government regulators pretty much have and share the same expectations that I do of cat adjusters. Professionalism and competency.
Again, as gentlemen we can rightfully disagree, but I simply am not smart enough to understand or appreciate the point of view you embrace which accepts and excuses this continuing fraud and incompetence by so called 'adjusters' acting in harm to an innocent and unsuspecting insuring public.
In pursuit of intellectual honesty, it does me no harm, financial or otherwise, to suggest that more than half of PowerClaim and other software adjuster users during the four Florida hurricanes were unskilled, untrained, and incompetent. The self same suggestion which I think you would find very difficult and financially painful to express. So rightfully our visions are likely clouded by the lenses with which and whether we see the bias of our inherent financial self interests or lack thereof.
I simply think the Florida incompetence created fiasco was a disgrace and a shame and disgusting to so many, while I clearly and certainly can understand why you can't and don't.
It disgusts me to no end and it's inexcusable no matter how you view it.
< Message edited by JimF -- 3/17/2005 10:28:29 PM >
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 10:05:50 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
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Goodmorning Mrs. Homeowner, as the call center explained last night I would inspect your roof and inside if you have any leaks, do you have any inside damage? None, OK I will measure your roof, take photos, look at the complete exterior of your house for hail damage, and have the adjuster call you to discuss the settlement amount and answer your question within 48 hours after I leave. No we will not send a contractor out as the lady said last night, just show a contractor of your choice our diagram and sheet and have the contractor call the number at the bottom of the page with any questions, but most workmen accept our estimates.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 10:26:23 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
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If the house inspector and the inside adjuster handle a claim as described in my post of this date.... and the loss was adjusted to both parties complete satisfaction... and the adjustment cost was cut significantly... who wins... the insurance buying public.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 10:31:11 PM
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Gale
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Jim, I do actually agree with you in an idea world. The picture I painted was how things can look in a less than idea world when there just are not adjusters enough to cover the losses in a timely matter as was the case with 4 in 04. While I am a non-practicing Optometrist I would never attempt to go into an ER and try to save a life but with medical training from twenty years ago I might be better at helping save a life on the side of the road than the closest ER team that is 60 miles away is all that I am saying. Heck the one on the scene without any medical training could be of more help perhaps than someone one hour away. There are times that just are not idea and that will continue to be the case from time to time. If I were given the power to tie up an ER room while qualified doctors on call were not being called then that would raise another set of questions?
Trader, you have put some thought into your point of view have not you?
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 11:24:50 PM
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mlburrows
Posts: 11
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JimF
I hope I do not insult you with this post, however, I feel I must say something. I feel insulted with you and other veteran adjusters putting all of us newbies on the same level, no I did not have any experience going into Florida because no one wants a newbie. Everyone wants experienced people, so how in the hell do you get experience when no one will hire you? When Charley hit I got a phone call and accepted a position, who wouldn't have? I just feel it is unfair to put all newbies in the same category, god knows all you see on the news is the whole situation being blamed on us ROOKIES, I come to this website to get advice and enjoy the dialect between all of the adjusters, I do not come here to see everyone repeatedly blaming us for the problems in Florida. I met plently of seasoned people the devil himself would be ashamed of. Greed, and opportunity made the biggest difference in Florida, not just the new people. I do agree, however, that there were plenty of new adjusters that did cause problems because they did not have the type of supervision they required, but once again not all of us fall into this broad category. I do apologize if I offended you or anyone else with this posting, and I am also sorry to get off topic of this forum, but for what it counts I prefer DDS to anything else. Thank you all for the opportunity to post on this subject, and I do apologize if anyone takes this the wrong way it is not meant to be like that.
MB
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 11:33:23 PM
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Johnd
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Gale, I think you misread my earlier post. I do not think we should go back to hand writing all estimates. I said I think that an adjuster should be completely competent hand writing an estimate; i.e.: have the knowledge to complete an estimate (and adjustment) without the benefit of software.
Software has been a wonderful tool for ADJUSTERS to input their date and present the insured and the carrier a concise, easy to read, presentable portfolio of claim documents.
The danger arises, as Jim pointed out, when this tool is placed in the hands of a less than qualified individual that depends on the program (software) to tell him what to do. I do not believe that this was the initial purpose of the adjusting software going back to programs like Boeckh, etc. However, this is what the industry has evolved into with programs like the little "spinning house" on DDS. I commented on this in the Forum several years previous if you care to search for the post.
Mr. Flynt is absolutely 100% correct in his assessment of the situation. If the industry does not change itself, then someone else will change it, and probably not to our liking.
Since I am retired, and Jim is almost there himself, I can see that these statements by him and myself are being made out of our concern for this industry and the insured who are affected by the less than stellar adjuster settlements being foisted upon them by incompetent and uncaring adjusters.
Gail, unfortunately, I feel your attitude about CAT adjusting is symptomatic of the problem and would urge you to rethink your position.
Putting high power software into the hands of an incompetent "adjuster" will give the same finished product you would get by putting lipstick on a pig.
_____________________________
Beauty is only skin deep, BUT incompetence goes clear to the bone!
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 11:38:23 PM
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JimF
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mlburrows
no I did not have any experience going into Florida
Quite simply MLB, I hope I do not insult you with this post, however, I feel I must say something as well.
Given what you say about your lack of experience, you and other individuals like you should not have ever been called to come to Florida to handle the complexities of insurance policies, estimating and the claims process and I suggest to you in no uncertain terms, that your comments notwithstanding, that it is a disgrace to the American insurance industry that individuals with, as you say absolutely no experience, were allowed to harm and endanger an unsuspecting and innocent public.
I wish you no ill will personally but if you decide to stay in this industry, may you seek out and enroll in the months and years of classroom education and hands on supervised training needed and necessary to properly handle claims and fairly be called an adjuster.
Perhaps in time, you can come to understand the injustices that were inflicted on the Florida public by those similar individuals who shared your lack of experience, training and skills in insurance, estimating and adjusting.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/17/2005 11:53:54 PM
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mlburrows
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Joined: 12/4/2004
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I am currently working on the education and hands on training to continue with this profession. I do not take offense to your point I take offense to your attitude on the matter. I will not be talked down to as I feel you havedone to everyone of us new guys. I agree entirely with you that the new guys if needed in Florida should have beened trained properly and thoroughly before being sent out on their own. I do not disagree with one bit, however, attitudes like yours is what makes it hard to break into this business, no one wants to train a new guy period, argue if you want but you have been around this business long enough to know I am right. No ill will is meant in this posting either, and I enjoy a good arguement as much as the next guy, but deep down whose fault is it really, us new guys jumping at a chance to try and break in or the companies hiring us? I am very interested in continueing in this field, it is a world of change from being a police officer and a very good field with good people in it, you included. I in no way am trying to pick a fight, nor am I being newbie going to take the blame for this whole mess, I feel the blame should be shared and given the chance to do it again I would.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 12:02:18 AM
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JimF
Posts: 1323
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You have my best wishes, I simply disagree with most of what you have to say.
Perhaps when you have been in this industry as long as some of us have and paid your dues in the same manner that we have, you can then expect to be talked to and treated as an 'equal.'
If it seems like I and others are not treating you and communicating with you as an equal, you are no doubt correct. Some of us around here really are real 'adjusters' and you and the other newbie 'adjusters' really are not. So don't insult real adjusters by calling yourself an adjuster and don't act so surprised that we don't treat you as such. These are not the words that the more tactful and diplomatic around here might use, but God bless you and them, no truer and more appropriate words could be spoken to clearly show the necessary distinctions.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 12:03:56 AM
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mlburrows
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I tell you what, forget my last couple of posts, because I refuse to get into a pissing contest over this subject. I did not take the posts the wrong way either, I am just trying to shed some light that it is not all the new guys fault, but obviously no matter what, I am wrong in some peoples eyes. Maybe I am in the wrong business, but then again maybe not. I hope I did not offend you Jim, but that is the way it looks to me. You seem to be a really great and knowledgable guy, but the whole attitude thing gets me, and maybe thats the old cop coming out in me who knows, have a good night and be safe.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 7:04:45 AM
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Janice_Toll
Posts: 78
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Home base: Austin, AR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gale
I have always said and always will stay a person should be required to take their driving test in a car with a manual shift transmission. All the automatic transmission was good for was to let women out of the kitchens and on to the roads. If they would have been kept off the roads then gas would still be $.25 per gallon.
Gale,
I take offense to you implying that women lack the intelligence and/or skill to drive a car with a manual shift transmission, and should be kept in the kitchen baking cookies, or whatever. Do you think women also lack the intelligence and/or skill to adjust claims? Do women lack the intelligence/skill to use your estimating software? Do you actually think it is entirely women drivers that have caused gasoline prices to increase? Your post says a lot about your attitude toward women. One last question, what type transmission is in your car?
_____________________________
Janice R. Martin-Toll
You rest, you rust!
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 7:53:16 AM
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olderthendirt
Posts: 570
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Home base: homeless
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MLB, you hit one point. It is not your fault you were in Florida. The lcoal Governor wantabe requires closings, vendors want warm bodies and companies want files closed on paper; and the public looses. Many fine Cat Adjusters will come out of the newbes that were here. They are the ones who will follow up on the training, have thick enough skins to understand respect has to be earned and will be willing to work the real fee schedules. I just hope the industry survives long enough for me to retire.
_____________________________
Still sliding down the razor blade of life
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 8:10:32 AM
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RobertV
Posts: 494
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(With apologies to John Postava) MyHumbleTwoCents as we meander around this thread-
There is no way that the vast amount of claims worked could have been seen in such a short amount of time without augmentation of the workforce. I am in agreement with above themes that you cannot simply fill in from any old temp agency and expect software to make an overnight wonder. This has been similarly broached in at least two different threads here in the past few months. Remember Douglas, looking at $300k totals as a newbie?
It appears to me the biggest problem was triage/ assignment and lack of specific direction to get help or return a claim if there was more damage. I bet most of the newbies had no trouble with quick settles like roofs and fences.
Imagine this: "You guys are all in this orientation room because you are new. Welcome to adjusting. Until we ride with you/ see your paperwork you are to settle only losses with roof covering/ fences, etc. If the house is not livable or appears to have structural damage you are to ..."
It doesn't matter whose software a newbie uses or how power-packed it is. The newbies didn't go door-to-door soliciting claims. Someone vouched for them to get their DFS Temporary Emergency License and saw to it they were assigned claims. That someone owed the policy holders some supervision (of the adjusters.)
Now excuse me, MY spleen is hurt: quote:
Gale, I take offense to you implying that women...
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 8:38:47 AM
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Gustbuster
Posts: 10
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OK......let us consider the alternative to sending in the unexperienced to help in a situation such as Florida......IF we hired only adjusters with the utmost experience, then the majority of claims would still not be settled, thousands of people would be without livable homes and insurance carriers would be out of business due to fines from the board of insurance. But, there would be a very small percentage of claims that were handled with complete competence. This scenario, obviously, would not work. It is true that the alternative has its problems, but not only is it the only logical choice, it is the only choice. This is not worth debating, however, i will give Y'all something else to debate. Why is it all the GOOD adjustes are from Texas?
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 9:25:10 AM
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JimF
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gustbuster
Why is it all the GOOD adjustes are from Texas?
HaHa. Nothing like a good joke early in the morning to give everyone a good rolling in the floor belly laugh. Try that one out on some of the carrier file examiners if you want an ear full. The joke is on you.
Hell they don't even teach you poor folks down in Texas how to properly spell A-D-J-U-S-T-E-R do they?
But I got to admit, your joke is good for a few laughs this morning. Thanks for sharing it and have a nice weekend.
< Message edited by JimF -- 3/18/2005 9:47:58 AM >
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 9:25:41 AM
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mlburrows
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I tell you what JimF I did not ask for your respect or to be your equal all I ask is that you not blame everything on the newbies. I never even called myself an adjuster I am simply someone wanting to aquire the knowledge to do the job right, after your attitude I hope I am never in the same category as you. I have met some real jerks in my lifetime but congratulations you take the prize, and you sir are the biggest ass I have ever met. I do not self centered arrogent people, I have made a choice to get out of this business before I start acting like an "ADJUSTER" and know it all. Maybe I should rephrase that, I do not want to offend the others that might fall into this category. If anyone takes offense to this I am sorry, Jim if you take offense I don't care. I posted on this to hear comments and discuss things rationally, however, you wanted to come with the attitude of not being wrong and no matter what you couldn't resist dragging us down. My experience does not make me an adjuster in many peoples eyes that is true, but my license says I am one so be it. Many of us came here for help and instead of wanting to help and pass on knowledge all you want to do is down play many new ADJUSTERS that are trying to the best they can.
< Message edited by mlburrows -- 3/18/2005 9:55:07 AM >
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 9:31:48 AM
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JimF
Posts: 1323
Joined: 4/19/2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mlburrows
Hell after your attitude I hope I am never in the same category as you.
I doubt either one of us have to worry too much about that ever happening.
But I am sorry you feel that way. Again, my comments were not directed at you personally but at an abominable situation which should never have been allowed to happen and which hurt tens of thousands of innocent insureds in Florida.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings with us and have a nice weekend.
< Message edited by JimF -- 3/18/2005 9:58:17 AM >
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 9:33:01 AM
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rottingmess
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geez. where are all these poor innocent florida claim filing victims? weve been here 27 years have havent run into them yet. surely no one is so naive to think florida is not the most claims savvy claims conscious state in america even as we speak feds invest tens too hundreds of millions paid out charging many with fraud of these so called poor innocent victims among other investigations ongoing. apparently some out of state older adjusters are very naive or playing dumb and its for sure they dont live in florida or they wouldnt be talking such hogwash. every con on the east coast ends up in florida and half with assumed names. even half of the experienced adjusters who apply carry assumed names or have criminal records and half the state cant speak english. diversity is our middle name.
actually we usually prefer the younger adjuster. younger professionals are usually more open minded less set in their ways more motivated and adept to learning and usualy do better jobs than the older ones. all in all please rest assured that we have things under control in case any have concerns about our welfare. with some liberal type mindsets there are plenty of our infamous contractors public adjusters attorneys or poor innocent victims who would love you.
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RE: How do the vendors stack up? - 3/18/2005 9:43:24 AM
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JimF
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Insurance woes similar across state
Hundreds vent post-hurricane problems to state's chief financial officer
PUNTA GORDA -- Nearly everyone came as skeptics. Most left as believers. All were grateful they had a sympathetic ear to hear them vent about how their insurance companies treated them in the aftermath of Hurricane Charley.
Florida Chief Financial Officer Tom Gallagher sat in the cafeteria of Sallie Jones Elementary School on Saturday through more than five-and-a-half hours of people complaining about their insurance companies.
Judy True was the personification of the feelings nearly everyone had as she came to tears explaining her plight: leaky roofs, no returned phone calls, near financial ruin.
True's insurance company, American Superior, failed as result of the hurricanes and the Florida Insurance Guaranty Association, a state-supported group, took over. Even so, she had no luck and mounting bills.
"I'm tired of the rain coming in," she said. "Nobody will talk to us."
Gallagher patiently listened to True and more than 100 others, sitting on a stool and giving people hope. More than 500 attended the town hall-style meeting, the third of four he is holding throughout the state.
Low-balling, getting the runaround, no answers at all, and every possible scenario in between were among the repeated themes recounted by the disgruntled people who wanted answers.
To read the rest of this article follow this weblink:
http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/031305/tp2ch1.htm?date=031305&story=tp2ch1.htm
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