RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjusters. Any pointers?
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 10:53:56 AM
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Doug
Posts: 102
Joined: 8/18/2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bigarrow
She did disallow special underlayment, GAF stormguard @ $60/SQ my price. The low slope part of the house had a hot mop on it. I peeled back the shingles and cut a sample out for her. She said even though it had it she wasn't going to pay for it because code didn't require it. She's a dumb ass, it was about a 2 1/2" per 12" slope with asphalt shingles on it.
I'll talk to my attorney first before I decide how far I want to take this. And no the adjuster can't file on me with the Attorney's office as per my attorney, I'll have to take his legal advise over yours, thanks though.
The adjuster probably did owe for special low slope handling if it was roofed that way originally, and it is code in many areas for special underlayment -- you're right in that regard. Most insurance companies do not owe for code-upgrades though But you stated that you already got it taken care of by discussing it with her supervisor. End of story - or it should be.
Don't take it so personal --
On the flip side, i do know of a few adjusters who are way too nit-picky about small things like that, but its usually not the adjusters fault, its the companies guidelines they are working for. Are you working in Florida? If so, the insurance guidelines change there every week it seems with the companies.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 11:00:42 AM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
Joined: 7/7/2005
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Your not getting the point. I didn't say my client is getting ripped, I don't think they are getting ripped and I never implied that. I didn't say the insurance pay was out of line all I said is that the difference is only 2.7% and thats only $174 on this job, no big deal for me or the insurance company. This is what makes the adjusters telling my customer that I'm ripping her off so out of line. It makes it look as though State Farm disapproves of me and besides that she is lying I'm not ripping my customer off. I upgraded the felt to 30# no charge, new metal edge and flashing no charge, damaged decking replacement no charge. I did sound like a hotshot when I said "bad ass attorney" and did sound confrontational, so I'll retract that statement, but he is very very competent and I have to protect myself. This lady did the business equivelent of a kick in the balls and will do it again, all I'm doing is protecting myself, I didnt start anything. Where I'm at contracts are not written "valid pending insurance company approval". " you are a contractor, not a crusader of insurance justice" I'm not trying to be I'm just protecting myself from a rogue adjuster. I'll agree with you there are many, many incompetent
contractors but this adjuster is very poor. I don't stand up for the bad contractors I don't know why you guys stand up for a bad adjuster.
I wish the bad contractors would be driven out of business, they drive prices down and give the industry a bad name. I would think this would apply to adjusters too. Get rid of the bad ones and the good ones prosper. When I asked why are adjustors anti contractor, thats a valid question. Are you an ex contractor ? If so you know how hard this business is. My business is based on repeat and referral business and I can not have a State Farm rep saying I'm a cheat stuff like that spreads like wildfire.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 11:23:34 AM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
Joined: 7/7/2005
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I'm the kind of contractor an adjuster likes to work with, this is just an isolated case.
I spoke with 2 adjusters yesterday about jobs.
The first adjuster missed some hail hits on a small flat back porch on a house I'm going to roof. I called the adjuster and told her what I found and how many hits. She told me it wouldn't change the claim much. So I called my customer and told her there wouldn't be enough damage to have the adjuster come back out. I called the adjuster and told her she didn't need to come out, so I helped save her an extra trip. good contractor story
I had an appointment with an adjuster to look at a commercial roof today at the request of the owner. I looked at the roof first on Wensday and couldn't find much damage. I called the adjuster and told him we didn't need to meet, that I didn't see any more damage than he did before. He thanked me and asked me to work up a price on the work because his program didn't have the entries for repairing flashing on a commercial roof. So after lunch I'll go back up on the 2 story building and then work up a price for the adjuster and fax it to him. another good contractor story
Also this afternoon I'm going to look at a house for state farm to see if the roof has any damage before they issue insurance on the house. another good contractor story
I'm also the guy who meets you at the job with a 2 story ladder.
I did 100% of the line item damage adjustement on 2 fire jobs, both over $50000 each, for the adjusters.
This bad experience is just an isolated instance with this lady.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 11:24:12 AM
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Medulus
Posts: 366
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Lake Ariel, PA
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Big Arrow,
It's hard to believe and sounds unlikely that an adjuster is running around telling people that you are a rip off artist over a $174 price difference. And it's equally hard to believe that you are calling the adjuster a dumb ass and trying to get her fired over a $174 disagreement in price. My hope is that this is one of those times when a contractor and adjuster just have an aversive reaction to each other.
Before trying to get someone fired, you should ask yourself a couple questions like:
"What did I actually hear first hand and what am I hearing filtered through someone else?" and "How likely is this to impact my business?"
It seems that your primary concern is actually your reputation. I can hardly speak for a particular State Farm adjuster, but I worked on staff for State Farm for five years. It was then and likely still is State Farm's business practice to avoid telling people that contractors are not good or are "rip-off artists". The more likely practice is to give the insured the names of three contractors that she believes are good and reasonable without mentioning any contractor that the adjuster may feel is not up to standards. If the adjuster really is going around telling people you are a price gouging roofing contractor (which, again, seems unlikely) a level headed call to the supervisor should quickly put an end to that practice. State Farm is a mutual company (owned by their insureds) and would much rather use their insured's money to pay for all the roofs that they owe for than for one lawsuit that could be avoided.
_____________________________
Steve Ebner
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 12:18:00 PM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
Joined: 7/7/2005
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It definatly is hard to believe and definatly unlikely but true, I've never experienced anything like this before. I am not trying to get her fired over a $174 price disagrement. I am not upset at all about the price disagreement, there's no law that says we have to agree on everything. I am going to get her fired for libel or slander whichever one it is. I'm not doing anything you wouldn't do in the same situation. If fact I'm probably being more reserved than most would be. I like State Farm, I am a State Farm customer and have been for many years. I like State Farm adjusters I have met with many of them and have always had a good experience before. This year they are paying a little light compared to the other companies but thats ok. Why would you want to defend this ladys actions. Why do you find it so hard to believe that an adjuster could do such a thing. There's bad apples in every group but it dosn't mean the group is bad.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 5:44:42 PM
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swink_d
Posts: 259
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Home base: Lexington, NC
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more to this story than meets the eye..
good luck in your endeavors
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 6:18:30 PM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
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I'm going to get my adjuster license after this storm, I heard it's easy money compared to contracting. Do they make ya'll take an oath of loyalty to each other? A friend,a very good contractor, interviewed for an adjusters job this week in Dallas. It's one of the big ones I think the name was Pearl, does that sound right? I hope he'll still be my friend after he starts adjusting. I've never seen a bunch stick together like you guys, its like a religion or something. Oh well. Hope you don't tar and feather me for the sarcasim. Most of you do seem like pretty good guys, misguided in your blind loyality and a little defensive, but good ol boys. If you ever want an honest answer about a contractor from a contractor just ask, I'll shoot straight with you. And unlike adjusters, contractors don't stick together just because we're contractors, we dislike bad contractors as much as our customers do. I've decided not to ask for her to be fired or to file a suit against the rogue adjuster, but I will report her and my attorney is going to send a letter asking her to refrain from defaming me blabla, like lawyers do. And hopefully she'll leave me alone, I think she is the agent on another roof where I've put in for an adjustment.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 7:03:14 PM
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Wes
Posts: 616
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Home base: Deerfield Beach, FL
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Are you filing claims for homeowners?
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 7:12:24 PM
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Johnd
Posts: 244
Joined: 4/19/2004
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Big Arrow
You started this thread named; "I would like to be able to work better with adjusters. Any Pointers?" Maybe you should try reading the responses. If there is anything an adjuster does not take kindle to it's a lippy, know it all, loose cannon, litigation threatning contractor/salesman. You seem to fit into this catagory. Grow up! AND, yea, you definitely need to go get an adjusters license, this industry is definitely in need of someone with your sterling qualities out there "making easy money compared to contracting." You may have already hit your highest level of incompetence.
PS: Use your real name bigarrow, we do not hide behing handles........
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 7:19:28 PM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
Joined: 7/7/2005
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No I'm not. They called me from my ad after there adjuster totaled the roof. The roof had 2 layers and the adjuster missed one. You know how the metal edge covers prevous layers. After eating a couple of these I always check as close as I can. Gets expensive if you don't get paid for the 2nd layer. It's always easier notifying the insurance co first before I start work if something is different.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 8:19:31 PM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
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Johnd, I didn't start the thread.
I get along just fine with adjusters, contractors, architects, customers etc. always have. This is one isolated case and thats it. I've had only one conflict with an adjuster in 18 years of business and your calling me names. How many conflicts with contractors have you had in the last 18 years?
"If there is anything an adjuster does not take kindle to it's a lippy, know it all, loose cannon, litigation threatning contractor/salesman."
Again read the thread as I've stated I've never sued or been sued and I'm not a know it all but I am very good at what I do and even after all these years I still study and work at getting better. And when I make a mistake I dont' mind someone pointing it out so maybe I don't make it again. I'm a student of the business been to manufacturers traing programs, read all I could get my hands on, and learned much from many different people over the years and I'm still learning. And at my age I'm not afraid to admit when I don't know something either.
I was joking about the easy money, I know it's hard work with long hours. I know several very good small contractors who switched to adjusting because the money is better with much less risk and much less overhead. But it was a joke about the easy money. I assume you've had some bad experiences with contractors but it wasn't me and the one bad experience I had wasn't you, so please don't get personal I'm a sensitive guy.
Well its almost Miller time Johnd, I'll drink a beer, one for me and one for you since your not here but I'd buy you one if you were and we could discuss something more important like college football or women.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 8:55:31 PM
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khromas
Posts: 606
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Home base: Houston, Texas
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bigarrow -
One important point to be aware of is that often there are situations where the carrier MAY have paid for that third layer removal under a prior claim and the insured just pocketed that amount and did a layover. Could have happened with both layers. I know from experience that most of the big boys (Red & Blue) will not underwrite a house with 3 layers or there will be a stipulation that any loss would only pay to remove the top 2 layers. As a former contractor myself, I know that the homeowner does not always 'talk straight' to me.
_____________________________
Kevin Hromas
_______________________________________
Definition of a LIBERAL: a person who is so open-minded that their brains have fallen out!
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/9/2005 3:06:26 AM
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K. Ingram
Posts: 29
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Ok, now gentlemen. This thread is starting to sound like some of the roof top arguments I have had with a contractor or two in the past. Let's face it, not all but most of the problems that occur between adjusters and contractors stem from two things.
1. Either the adjuster is unskilled in the practices of construction and damage, or the contractor is. Every single time that I have met with a reputable professional contractor, the largest problem that might arise is a small discrepency in unit cost for repair(even this is rare). Scope is hardly ever an issue when both parties know their job. Believe it or not in many of those price discrepencies, the carrier had not adjusted their own database to allow the adjusters to pay the after storm prices. Are there cut throat contractors out there? Sure as hell!! and quite a few worthless adjusters too. Believe me I have had to go behind many!!
2. It's also a matter of interest, or rather conflict of. The contractor is in business to put food on the table, and so is the insurance carrier. Notice I said carrier and not adjuster, because in this instance we as adjusters have no interest if it costs $100/sq or $1000/sq for roofing. We pay the rate that each particular carrier we are working for will allow, no more and no less. As adjusters we make sure the scope is correct and accurate, pricing is decided above our heads and it causes the adjuster quite a headache when he only needs 2 dollars more per square to settle the loss and his manager won't budge. Basically we are caught in the middle. So to mister Arrow, adjusters may tend to be a little sensitive when their whole process of claim handling gets a wrinkle thrown in it, while 100 other insureds are calling wanting thier claims handled and we have to spend an entire afternoon trying to get one little 40 square roof settled. That of course is no excuse for telling an insured that their contractor is ripping them off, and I would want to sue any adjuster that did that too. If the pricing is higher than I am paying I advise the insured that I need up to two other bids showing the higher price before any increase can be entertained. That sir was an example of an adjuster making a very poor call. Please remember however the adjuster can only pay what the carrier says he can. Carriers are notorious for their wide range in pricing, in Ivan alone one carrier was paying almost $50 a square less than I was. And by no means was I priced out of the market.
I guess the underlaying sentiment here is let's all be professional and help the customer in the most efficient and fair manner possible.
Now PA'S , they are another story..................LOL but that's another issue altogether....
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If you're not living on the edge then you're taking up too much space...
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/9/2005 3:25:22 AM
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K. Ingram
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Oh.. one other quick note. Bigarrow, you mentioned how all us adjusters seem to stick together. You're right, our first reaction is to defend our colleage. That comes from conditioning, most insureds distrust us since they feel that we are the insurance carrier representative that is coming to their home and short them money. Of course as independent adjusters, many on the carrier side of the fence like us only about 1/4" more than plantiff attorneys. They only use us because they have no other alternative, no one else can do the job we do (which is not even close to being easy money). In which case here we are doing our best to walk the line between both parites and making sure that both are treated fairly, and honestly. So we tend to get judged from both sides and usually unfairly.
_____________________________
If you're not living on the edge then you're taking up too much space...
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/9/2005 10:57:46 AM
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Darryl
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I am Director of Training for an Independent Vendor and during the course of training our adjusters I often tell them that one of the greatest resources they have is a good contractor. An individual who does a particular activity over and over is usually a better resource than an individual that inspects it. I am always willing to learn. I am thrilled when I deal with a good contractor, public adjuster, attorney or engineer as they make my job easier. If we disagree, get to the bottom of the disagreement and if there is still a difference of opinion then just present it to the deciding authority with the reasons for both sides of the argument. There can be different solutions to the same problem.
I am not saying defer to an “expert,” I am saying there are different approaches to the same problem and sometimes someone else’s approach is better. It usually does not take much time to tell if the person you are dealing with is a sincere representative of his point of view or a salesman for a product or service.
When it gets down to it, our job is to find, estimate and present to the insurance company what it takes to repair a covered problem to covered property, no matter whose idea it is. Anyone that can help me do this is welcomed and those that interfere with this process are not.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/9/2005 2:09:53 PM
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JimF
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Post temporarily removed by Poster to review for compliance with the CADO website owner's guidelines to insure that generally accepted Free Speech provisions of law are not violated by exceptions to free speech recognized by American law, including obscenity, defamation, breach of the peace, incitement to crime, "fighting words" and sedition.
< Message edited by JimF -- 2/18/2006 2:48:55 AM >
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/9/2005 3:06:11 PM
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mfowlerinc.com
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Some compies like to have estimate broken down differently. One carrier may want the estimate all inclusive (example $200 per Sq. includes drip edge, vents, 3-tab, etc.) and 2nd carrier may want Drip edge price per LF, vent price and shingle price all broken out. Ask the adjuster? Mostly remember adjuster's usually make more money if the claim is higher so they are intentionally not going to pay for damage that is covered. If there are age, wear and tear issues explain that to your costomer, (the insured) that this certain portion is not covered and is an exclusion. Especially soffits and facia that is rotten! You will do great b/c you are at least trying to help reach an agreement or you wouldn't be online!! Where are you working at?
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