I would like to be able to work better with adjusters. Any pointers?
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I would like to be able to work better with adjusters. ... - 3/13/2005 11:04:04 PM
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I'm not sure how well I will be recived here, but it seems like the logical place to ask some questions about the other side of the fence.
I have been storm chasing for a little while now working as a roofing estimator for local roofers. (I.E. I am not a roofer and do not have my own crew)
It is a simple fact that if I can make the life of my customers adjusters easier, then odds are we will both be able to get our jobs done faster and better.
When you hear from a contractor, what information do you want and how do you want it displayed?
Should I break my bid down to the lowest levels, or simply indicate the basics.
When I see a problem that the adjuster does not see, or does not think is a problem. What would be the best way to resolve the issue? (I hate going over peoples heads)
Thanks in advance for any help you can send my way.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/14/2005 8:58:19 AM
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trader
Posts: 1200
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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Show the amount of sqs, if this is a problem exchange diagrams. Show the grade and unit prices. Split out and tell the homeower, rot and new flashings (chimney, wall step etc) will not be paid(without a fight)
Most carriers will give on the prices, but not the scope. Remember it MUST be direct damage, and LQK not what you woulpd like to sell. You have the a good attitude and will do well.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/25/2005 12:14:35 PM
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trader
Posts: 1200
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
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Things that distract me when I meet a contractor or a very aggresive insured to scope the loss.
1. Like all others I have my routine. If its a roof claim I like to inspect the exterior from the ground, before getting on the roof. 2. If a plumbing leak I go to the site of the leak and work outward. 3. If its a flood loss I like to do the foot print first and then start room by room with the main entry door and save the baths and the kitchen last. I keep all the rooms with the same walls and floors togather for macro purposes.
I almost insist on not discussing scope with either until I have finished with my photos and measurments, when I overlook something on my scope notes or a photo I needed, I recall one or both were following me around yapping like a fox terrier.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/25/2005 12:44:02 PM
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LMLinson
Posts: 21
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Home base: Elkhart ,Texas
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Simply let the adjuster do his job. When you discuss the scope and you feel he/she left something off, ask if you can look at it again and if you see damage show it to them. I dislike working with salesmen who are simply trying to sell a roof regardless of damage. I have actually had salesmen point out bird droppings as hail damage. It was easy to show them it was not by brushing it away, but it helps if the salesmen knew a bit about damage, many don't. The most efective salesman I ever met was on a reinspection of a roof that only one slope had been paid for. He barely said a word, went to the affected area, circled the damage, stood back and waited for my call. I couldn't argue, he knew his stuff, he showed additional damage we paid for it no problem. Also remember an adjuster cannot pay for " What if" , it has to be "What Is".
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/25/2005 4:10:11 PM
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Wes
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What if the walls cavaties are wet.
What if mold grows.
What if the attic insulation is wet.
What if I can't find matching tile, paint, carpet, cabinets, shingles, base trim.
Bla, blah blah.
As stated above it is "What is" not "What if".
Public adjusters and contractors that think their adjusters love to try the "what if" on newer adjusters.
I also like the comparison above between contractors and salesman. A true contractor will point out visible damage and a scope will be agreed upon. A salesman contractor will be attempting a complete remodel and will be despised by all.
Another common discussion between adjusters and contractors/pa's always starts out "what about the hidden damage behind ______?" No insurance company pays for hidden damages. If unforseen damages are discovered during the repairs then a supplement will be created if needed.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/25/2005 5:28:01 PM
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trader
Posts: 1200
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40 years ago hail damage was all over the slope facing the direction the storm came from. Now it seems the damage is always near the ridge.
I.m going to ask for a salesman my age next time. Yes they look steeoer each passing year.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/26/2005 10:43:51 AM
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Medulus
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I echo much of what I've heard here. To the contractor who started this thread -- Trader is right about you having a good attitude. Any contractor who wants to work better with me is welcome. And I find most contractors ultimately reasonable when the dust settles. Often the problem is that the contractor has simply pulled a cost figure out of the air and I need to go through my estimate line item by line item to show them that I have included everything that needs to be done at a fair price. Other times it is a matter of pointing out that I cannot pay for upgrades like 30 year shingle where there is now 20 year, ice and water shield, ridge vents that don't currently exist, replacement of rotted roof decking, and when we compare only the items the policy provides coverage for, we turn out to be in the same neighborhood. Four or five times a year I encounter a contractor who I just cannot work with and I have to advise the insured to get a second opinion.
I sometimes cringe when an insured says that the contractor wanted to be there when I inspect. I have had many salesmen following me around or --worse yet -- lead me through a job, pointing out his/her next item of damage before I have finished measuring and taking notes concerning the last. Or they are pointing out damage that appears invisible to the naked eye. Or they are posing the formerly-mentioned "what if" questions.
However, a contractor who wants to work with me to help restore the insured to their pre-loss condition is welcome, with one proviso. On an active catastrophe, an adjuster will often schedule ten to twelve inspections during a day and it is difficult to be exact on when we will arrive. Also, after thoroughly inspecting the loss we are at, we want to move on to the next. We cannot always schedule our time flexibly because there are so many who need help. It can be annoying to have to work around a contractor's schedule when I can see hail damage just as well without the contractor as with the contractor. I once even had a contractor who insisted I meet him after dark because the hail damage, he insisted, could only be seen when you shine a flashlight (or headlights) on the siding. This led to many jokes among adjusters about a "magic hail light". As a matter of fact, I went there in the daylight and I was able to see the hail damage to the siding without the magic light because, though hail damage to siding sometimes is difficult to see in certain levels of sunlight, those of us who have seen plenty of it know to look at an elevation of siding from an angle to tell if there is hail damage.
_____________________________
Steve Ebner
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/29/2005 1:56:21 PM
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mrachel
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This was a good question to ask! I use to own a Roofing Company and have worked sales for a Paintless Dent Repair Company. With this in mind, I know the "other side of the fence". What I am interested in is how to not "tick off the adjusters and get them to pay in a timely manner". For this reason and others, I am currently enrolled in the upcoming Dearborn Leonard Adjusting P&C class in Dallas Texas. This is a side of the fence I am excited to learn about. I am tired of dealing with contract labor. You can sincerely promise the very best of your ability to the Insured but you are always relying on the labors. Many times they are aliens from Mexico because Americans are not interested in that type of labor and pay. This usually leads to miscommunication issues. GRRR... If anyone out there is interested in "chatting" about how I can achieve a successful "career as a Hail Chasing Auto Adjuster" please email me at cobbra_30@yahoo.com
Thanks and good luck to you!
Rachel
_____________________________
Rachel Cobb
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 3/30/2005 11:53:44 PM
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rbryanhines
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Guest
You need to treat the adjuster with professionalism and respect until he/she does not deserve it. Even then try to work through it. I always make sure I have a solid position with my client before I meet with the adjuster. When we meet my assumption is the adjuster is experienced in the damage that we are scoping. My initial meeting with adjuster is simply to walk the loss and see if we are on the same page. I generally do more listening then talking. If we have different views of the scope or pricing, I take notes of the adjusters stance and do my homework. It is what it is!!!! If the adjuster is right then I change my position. If I am right then I explain my position to my client (the insured) and document my stance with all the evidence I need. The issue of the difference in our opinions is between the insured and the adjuster. I am a GC not a PA or Attorney I let them figure the rest out!
Good Luck.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/7/2005 11:58:08 PM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
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What is the procedure for filing a complaint against an adjustor who crosses the line with your customer. I'm a roofing contractor and an adjustor told a customer I have a signed contract with that I was ripping her off and tried to get my customer to not honor the contract and find another roofer. My customer stayed with me so I havn't lost anything yet but I don't know who else the adjuster is talking to. I have a bad ass attorney but I dont' have the time or energy or the want to for a fight even though I'm right and I would win. All I want is the adjustor fired.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 1:03:37 AM
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swink_d
Posts: 259
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Home base: Lexington, NC
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can you give a few more details....
what did he say you were ripping them off on?
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 3:52:36 AM
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Medulus
Posts: 366
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Hmmmmm....I wonder if any roofers have ever told any of our insureds that their insurance company was trying to rip them off.......
I wonder where that complaint could be filed..........
_____________________________
Steve Ebner
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 6:09:22 AM
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jlombardo
Posts: 335
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Home base: clearwater, fl
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Tell us more.......shame on the adjuster for not allowing $500 per square for 240.....plus dumpster...plus metal.....plus .......I'd want him fired too!!!!!
If you realy think that he crossed the line....and can prove it, than contact the Insurance Commissioner's Office in whatever state the alleged act occurred......Remember, the adjuster can also file a complaint with the State's Attorney's Office if you are price gouging......it is a two edged sword......
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 6:51:50 AM
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ChuckDeaton
Posts: 181
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Home base: Little Rock, AR
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A good thing to remember is that bird poop ain't hail damage and telling a widowed mother that it is just causes problems.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 6:58:07 AM
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ClaySheffield
Posts: 66
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Home base: Daphne, Alabama
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OH MY GOD!? Is he talking about me? I said almost those same words 100's of times recently in Milton, FL. Should I be shaking in my boots? Oh no, no not another pissed off contractor.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 7:22:51 AM
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LarryW
Posts: 202
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Home base: Grand Bay, AL
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Gee, I wonder if there are two sides to this story!
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 9:06:06 AM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
Joined: 7/7/2005
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You guys are a little sensitive don't you think. Well I'll answer each smart ass remark as honest and clear as I can. And the only real question last.
Hmmmmm....I wonder if any roofers have ever told any of our insureds that their insurance company was trying to rip them off.......
I wonder where that complaint could be filed..........
They probably have, I never have though. It's not my business and it's improper. And besides a bad paying insurance this storm is the good paying one the next storm so I don't get into the advising insurance game. I'm a contractor and I build and repair and also have done free adjusting for adjustors many times on complicated or one of a kind jobs, your welcome.
Tell us more.......shame on the adjuster for not allowing $500 per square for 240.....plus dumpster...plus metal.....plus .......I'd want him fired too!!!!!
If you realy think that he crossed the line....and can prove it, than contact the Insurance Commissioner's Office in whatever state the alleged act occurred......Remember, the adjuster can also file a complaint with the State's Attorney's Office if you are price gouging......it is a two edged sword......
My price was 2.7% above the insurance co. prices. Would you get upset if an experienced contractor disagreed with you and the amount was 2.7%. She did disallow special underlayment, GAF stormguard @ $60/SQ my price. The low slope part of the house had a hot mop on it. I peeled back the shingles and cut a sample out for her. She said even though it had it she wasn't going to pay for it because code didn't require it. She's a dumb ass, it was about a 2 1/2" per 12" slope with asphalt shingles on it. While she was inside slandering me I called her boss and got the underlayment approved. If the homeowner would of taken her advise and gotten a roofer who wouldn't of put on a rubber underlayment or a hot mop there would of been a high chance for a leak. And the adjuster would be in another state ruining another homeowners life.
I'll talk to my attorney first before I decide how far I want to take this. And no the adjuster can't file on me with the Attorney's office as per my attorney, I'll have to take his legal advise over yours, thanks though.
A good thing to remember is that bird poop ain't hail damage and telling a widowed mother that it is just causes problems.
Not applicable, why did you think this happened?
OH MY GOD!? Is he talking about me? I said almost those same words 100's of times recently in Milton, FL. Should I be shaking in my boots? Oh no, no not another pissed off contractor.
I don't think I'm talking about you her name wasn't Clay.
Gee, I wonder if there are two sides to this story!
Yes the lady has problems and hopefully I'll help her get some time off so she can rest.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 9:16:16 AM
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bigarrow
Posts: 12
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quote:
can you give a few more details....
what did he say you were ripping them off on?
Well did my posts answer your question? If you need more info just ask.
Why are you guys so sensitive and anti contractor? I've been in business for 18 years and this is the first time anything like this has happened. I've disagreed with adjusters before but it was always only that, a disagreement, nothing personal. Most of the time I proved my point to them, because I wont bring something up unless I'm damn sure I'm right, and sometimes I was wrong and the adjuster has changed my mind and a few others we just disagreed and thats cool too except when it costs me money, but that happens sometimes. I have met adjusters on the job before and I could tell they had a negative attitude towards me even though we never met or talked before but by the time everything was done we were getting along fine. So why the attitude with contractors?
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 9:40:49 AM
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bigarrow
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More background on me.
I've never been sued by anyone or sued anyone.
I have a spotless BBB record.
In 18 years I've never had a liability insurance claim. I've had damages but I always paid for them out of pocket, nothing big knock on wood.
My warranty is awesome, many times I've fixed problems out of the warranty time frame and also problems that didn't have anything to do with what I did.
The last storm I had only 1 small leak, but I'm a small contractor so I can watch my jobs a little closer than the bigger companies.
I'm not a storm chaser and only work close to home.
I'll be here for years for my customers to back up anything I say or do.
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RE: I would like to be able to work better with adjuste... - 7/8/2005 10:32:01 AM
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Doug
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bigarrow
My customer stayed with me so I havn't lost anything yet but I don't know who else the adjuster is talking to. I have a bad ass attorney but I dont' have the time or energy or the want to for a fight even though I'm right and I would win. All I want is the adjustor fired.
In a later post - you also mentioned "why are adjuster's anti-contractor?" - I think your quote above sums it up--- don't be a hotshot. If you truly feel your client is being ripped, ask for a re-inspection with a different adjuster. I assume you have already done this, so have your client call her ins. co's claims dept and complain about the situation herself, signed contract or not.. Contracts with roofers are usually written so as to be "valid pending insurance company approval"
From a business standpoint -- you are a contractor, not a crusader of insurance justice. In the time it takes you to argue over one job (you didnt mention the size --is this a 30sq job or a 200 sq job?) you could sell two more, and the trouble you are taking does not seem worth it unless 1) its a huge job, or 2) you are starved for work. As a former roofer myself, i understand part of your frustration - i have met adjusters who seemed arrogant and silly. But as an adjuster, i have met far more silly, incompetent contractors.
As well, when a contractor brings up having a "bad ass attorney", i would have a nice laugh if i thought i was right and tell him to bring it. Most experienced adjusters have had to deal with an attorney or two at some point in their career, and these folks are not held in any higher regard than public adjusters.
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