RE: The Mold Myth
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
NOTICE: We are no longer using this forum for discussions. Please follow the links to the new forums.
Catastrophe Central-The Adjuster's Forum : Community Center- Forums
New Site Registration : New Site Login
Login  | |
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/12/2006 11:43:58 PM
|
|
|
stewarjr
Posts: 25
Joined: 9/24/2005
Home base: Monroe, LA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: trader
There has not been one death case in the world, that the experts listed as exposure to mold. Find one and post it and I will backtract. I belive Roger, I belive Leonard my old boss, both are allergic to mold but they are both alive.
So if you were hit by a drunk driver and you lost both your legs and your arms he could argue that you shouldn't gripe because you are still alive...?
I worked a claim where and elderly woman with no prior ill health issues was hospitalized after a small hole in her mobile home roof allowed rain to slowly enter and cause mold behind the walls and under the flooring. She was released after a week and returned to the home. By this time, there was even more mold (3 weeks post Wilma) and within 3 days she was back in the hospital; this time she was at the point of death and was in ICU for over a week. The doctors said her symptoms were related to mold exposure. Unfortunately, there was no ALE in her policy and the carrier wound up paying the policy limit which was only $15,000...
Just because people don't die, doesn't mean there is no problem. Acne doesn't kill anyone, but medical insurance still pays for its treatment.
-Jason Steward
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/13/2006 4:16:43 PM
|
|
|
spburnett
Posts: 18
Joined: 7/22/2004
Home base: Granbury, TX
Status: offline
|
I surmise by your non-responsiveness to the presence of mold that all claims of mold induced injuries (even a sniffling nose) is bogus. Not so fast Oh commrades. Take a look at Doctor Fungus web site at http://www.doctorfungus.org/index.htm. It has a BUNCH of info about the little critters. Even some pretty grewsome pictures of the after effects. One that sticks out in my mind is the post-mortem photo of a child's lung infected with Aspergillus spp. Looks like a jelly fish got in there and set up house.
Point is that we all have some degree of resistance to the presence of mold spores. We all agree that spores are all around us and have been since "god wore shorts". The unknown varible in all this is our individual ability to resist such invasion. If we are on some treatment that reduces our imune system, mold has a better chance of grabbing hold in our bodies.
I routinely rinse my sinus cavities out after being in a significantly molded structure. I do wear protective gear if warrated. I do not want to be in a situation where one day I leave such a house and then find my nose, sinus, and lungs filled with aspergillus or stachybotrys. Be my luck the doctor would treat something else.
I've included an excerpt from the website mentioned above. The numbers are bibliography lisitings in the actual text. (http://www.doctorfungus.org/thefungi/Aspergillus_spp.htm)
>>>
Aspergillus spp. may also be local colonizers in previously developed lung cavities due to tuberculosis, sarcoidosis, bronchiectasis, pneumoconiosis, ankylosing spondylitis or neoplasms, presenting as a distinct clinical entity, called aspergilloma [843, 1045]. Aspergilloma may also occur in kidneys [964].
Some Aspergillus antigens are fungal allergens and may initiate allergic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis particularly in atopic host [820, 1257]. Some Aspergillus spp. produce various mycotoxins (toxic poisons - comment added). These mycotoxins, by chronic ingestion, have proven to possess carcinogenic potential particularly in animals. Among these mycotoxins, aflatoxin is well-known and may induce hepatocellular carcinoma. It is mostly produced by Aspergillus flavus and contaminates foodstuff, such as peanuts [1556].
Aspergillus spp. can cause infections in animals as well as in man. In birds, respiratory infections may develop due to Aspergillus. It may induce mycotic abortion in the cattle and the sheep [2120]. Ingestion of high amounts of aflatoxin may induce lethal effects in poultry animals fed with grain contaminated with the toxin.
>>>
Enjoy!!!
_____________________________
Stan Burnett
"clear communication leads to clear understanding"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/13/2006 10:25:16 PM
|
|
|
trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
|
You two should call you expertise to the plantiff bars attention and see if your testimony from the stand is more convincing than the folks who went to medical schools for about 12 years. If its not covered by insurance, why are you concerned, the human health condition is not covered by the Homeowners Policy, why are you concerned, removing wet carpet and dry wall is covered by the Homeowners, be concerned pay for it and close your file.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/14/2006 12:35:22 AM
|
|
|
trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
|
Was out looking for some Mycotoxins today on a fire loss with a lot of water inside an apartment complex. Checked the coverage and it had an absolute mold exclusion and the MYcotoxins disappered with the mold remediation contractor. I suggested he come back in a few days, as if they were in the apartment they would be in the dumpster and he could take as many as he could carry away. This guy thought I was gruff and unconcerned about the tenants in the other buildings.....
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/14/2006 11:42:27 AM
|
|
|
PORTASATGUY
Posts: 338
Joined: 9/15/2005
Home base: Homeless
Status: offline
|
Look at the CAUSE OF LOSS....... Water and Fire!
_____________________________
R. Estes
Life is short LIVE IT!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/14/2006 12:41:28 PM
|
|
|
BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
Status: offline
|
Yeah, it's a covered loss no doubt. But with Trader's scenario, the ensuing damages are covered in terms of removal of damaged property, but not "remediation" such as Tyvec suits, air quality testing, air containment barriers, air-scrubbers, etc.
Thus the dumpster is the destination of soggy property, without "gift-wrapping". His policy has restrictions. You have to dance with the one that brought you.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/14/2006 7:59:19 PM
|
|
|
trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
|
Yep never tested mold for 40 years before it became toxic in 2000. Just always tossed it in the dumpster, still do.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/15/2006 1:18:07 AM
|
|
|
dcmarlin
Posts: 145
Joined: 2/10/2006
Home base: Morrison, CO
Status: offline
|
As pointed out, mold is almost always excluded as a CAUSE OF LOSS. Usually, it is a RESULT of water or some other covered cause of loss. Thus, you pay for the water damage but any additional damages due to mold, if covered at all, is usually subject to a special limit. Due to possible health concerns and/or lawsuits, it makes sense to remove/remediate as "necessary", pay the appropriate amount and close your file.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/15/2006 8:18:57 AM
|
|
|
Agility Cat
Posts: 15
Joined: 6/15/2006
Home base: Asheville, North Carolina
Status: offline
|
Mold has always been a two sided coin. I have seen some in Florida -Jean, Louisiana-Rita and Florida-Wilma. this could be a health issue, as some type of mold are toxic and other not. I always carry tyvek suit, gloves and "RESPIRATOR" (mask are not my choice, better be safe).
It is a good idea for the insured to take pictures of affected areas, as well as pictures of the process of removing drywall or other of the affected areas, and pictures of cleaning (if necessary) of the framing members or others, before the adjuster comes in.
That allow the insured to live in his home safely. (not too appealing, but liveable)
By doing that, the adjuster will have the proof of loss (if covered by the policy), and the carrier will have a definite reasonable proof of that loss.
That is, if the home owner does perform the steps above mentioned (most do not, they are afraid to loose at the end.)
Remember: spores of mold are invisible and volatile, so be carefull when you see some mold developing on the walls or ceiling, and if so, never go in the attic, NEVER.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/15/2006 9:30:37 AM
|
|
|
trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
|
As an IA always trying to make an honest buck I would like each adjuster, water remediation contractor and any others who make a living by working in the insurance adjusting, repair or restoration of buildings that have water damage to download and read the following article:
http://www.nmhc.org/Content/ServeContent.cfm
As you will disagree with this paper, please send me your name address and adjusters license number by private email. When I have this data, I plan on selling this bilge to CLUE for profit. This should result in a great loss of income to you, but eliminate most of your exposure.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/25/2006 10:26:15 AM
|
|
|
BobH
Posts: 103
Joined: 2/2/2006
Home base: San Luis Obispo, California
Status: offline
|
I think that site changed its link, try this one
http://www.nmhc.org/Content/ServeContent.cfm?ContentItemID=3210
Here's a quote from it, in case they change the link again:
The report essentially concludes that mold is linked to allergies and may possibly be linked to asthma and upper respiratory problems, but no evidence exists to support a link to more cancer, fatigue, neuropsychiatric disorders or other serious health claims.
The study should go a long way toward quelling consumer fears about mold and should bring some relief to the real estate industry, which has been inundated with lawsuits seeking compensation for exposure to mold.
Even though the report rejects the most sensational mold-related claims, it echoes NMHC/NAA's long-held advice to property owners to deal promptly and effectively with indoor dampness.
------------------------
NMHC = National Multi Housing Counsel
NAA = National Apartment Association
There is a 42 pg download link on that site from the National Academy of Sciences that explains their findings.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 6/25/2006 4:45:33 PM
|
|
|
trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
|
The war of mold still goes on. I suggest the insurance industry hire the best detective firm and seek out all the "pro molders" and expose them for what they are. We all know loose lips and junk science spewing from thier mouth in a large catastrophe can amount to millions of dollars for unneeded testing and remediation.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/3/2006 8:03:34 AM
|
|
|
shadow
Posts: 51
Joined: 5/10/2004
Home base: houston texas usa
Status: offline
|
I am not trying to cause trader to sick the detective on me. However if you read the ENTIRE study all it really says is more research is needed to determine the exposure levels at which the assorted mycotoxins and mold spores become potentially harmful to human tissue. The following is an excerpt from the review and recommendations of the same study. I read the whole study and don,t think I would want the stuff growing in my home.
Molds that can produce mycotoxins under the appropriate environmental and competitive conditions can and do grow indoors. Damp indoor spaces may also facilitate the growth of bacteria that can have toxic and inflammatory effects. Little information exists on the toxic potential of chemical releases resulting from dampness-related degradation of building materials, furniture, and the like.
In vitro and in vivo studies have established that exposure to microbial toxins can occur via inhalation and dermal exposure and through ingestion of contaminated food. Animal studies provide information on possible target organs, the underlying mechanisms of action, and the potency of many toxins isolated from environmental samples and substrates from damp buildings. The dose required to cause adverse health effects in humans has not been determined.
In vitro and in vivo studies have demonstrated adverse effects—including immunotoxic, neurologic, respiratory, and dermal responses—after exposure to specific toxins, bacteria, molds, or their products.
In vitro and in vivo research on Stachybotrys chartarum suggests that effects in humans may be biologically plausible; these observations require validation from more extensive research before conclusions can be drawn.
Information on DNA, RNA, and protein adducts resulting from interactions with toxins is available. However, research is needed to further develop techniques for detecting and quantifying mycotoxins in tissues in order to inform the question of interactions and the determination of exposures resulting in adverse effects.
Animal studies should be initiated to evaluate the effects of long-term (chronic) exposures to mycotoxins via inhalation. Such studies should
< Message edited by shadow -- 7/3/2006 8:37:22 AM >
_____________________________
perfect worlds are hard to find
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/3/2006 8:07:35 AM
|
|
|
shadow
Posts: 51
Joined: 5/10/2004
Home base: houston texas usa
Status: offline
|
I am not saying that Insurance companies owe for the removal OR testing of contaminated homes only that I would not want my loved ones exposed to these materials. Causation of loss and covered damages is best left to you guys. If you don,t think it is covered under the language of the policy as written then don,t cover it. Just please don't tell me this stuff is harmless to my children pets wife or myself until such time as the additional research by qualified individuals is done and the results published unless of course you happen to have a degree in biology and have been doing your scientific studies on your off time which facilitated an amazing breakthrough which you have just not had the time to have published and reviewed by a board of your peers in the scientific community.
< Message edited by shadow -- 7/3/2006 8:39:55 AM >
_____________________________
perfect worlds are hard to find
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/13/2006 7:05:49 PM
|
|
|
mountainman
Posts: 5
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
|
I agree with all and disagree. Mold has been around for ever. So have bees. Personally, I feel mold CAN be like a bee sting. Bee stings don't bother most people other than hurts a little. On the other hand, some people must be in the hospital within 15 minutes or they can die. Feel mold can be the same way; may affect a few people with drastic results, but probably does not bother the majority. The insurance companies should have handled it differently; on a "case by case" basis. Simply have an insured bring in a allergist's report showing blood work and diagnosis. But, they chose not to, and for a good reason.
Don't think Ins Co don't have their "think tanks" in place, they do. Co's knew they could not get their 911 losses back from the consumers so they had to find a scapegoat; enter mold paranoia. They allowed the mold epidemic to run wild to generate choas knowing it could be used to bring in a profitable change for them; like a good game of chess. And look what happened!
If it was such a huge issue, TX could have called in the law like companies did back in Andrew in Florida. Any contrator caught price gouging was to be reported to the ins commissioner. Price gouging was illegal. Same could have been done with remeditation contractors. Now TX has little coverage with huge premiums.
As if the companies were not on a roll, now everyone is subject to being reported to C.L.U.E. if we so much as call our company and merely ask a question. That call generates an automatic claim number that will be placed on your record for other companies to see and be considered against you. Its real facts. If you don't believe it, call your agent and ask.
Companies have mustered the support of our politician, not without generous contributions of course, to the point of consumers and workers getting treated like slave labor. Companies are withholding pay that to adjusters, staffers are intimidated into working nights and weekends without pay (several co's have been losing their law suit on in favor of the employees than goodness), and because of ALL the above, they are now reporting their highest profits ever! Companies flourish on those individuals who can't see the forest for the trees.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/15/2006 9:36:23 AM
|
|
|
Agility Cat
Posts: 15
Joined: 6/15/2006
Home base: Asheville, North Carolina
Status: offline
|
As an IA always trying to make an honest buck I would like each adjuster, water remediation contractor and any others who make a living by working in the insurance adjusting, repair or restoration of buildings that have water damage to download and read the following article:
http://www.nmhc.org/Content/ServeContent.cfm
As you will disagree with this paper, please send me your name address and adjusters license number by private email. When I have this data, I plan on selling this bilge to CLUE for profit. This should result in a great loss of income to you, but eliminate most of your exposure.
Trader, I got your message, went to the link, nothing, went to the next message link, opened it, very enlighting and educative.
As far as your last statement (above in bold), clarify your course of action, should I take it as a threat ? (The CADO site is to exchange infos, experienced feedbacks from adjusters, so on so forth. As I anylize your statement, it could be interprated differently)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/15/2006 11:22:51 AM
|
|
|
trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
|
My post was intended to be satirical . When your strong opines are disclosed to insureds with the same opines, it seems to me your thinking will be observed by the principals who hired you to investigate and scope losses. Some call this shooting your own foot.
Please rest easy, I have no clue were CLUE is. I do know CLUE keeps records on houses with mold/water claims.
< Message edited by trader -- 7/15/2006 11:33:24 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/15/2006 7:03:10 PM
|
|
|
Wes
Posts: 622
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Deerfield Beach, FL
Status: offline
|
Trader, what is this CLUE? I have never heard of it that I am aware of.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/15/2006 9:37:43 PM
|
|
|
trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
|
Join the rest of us Wes. In the Texas mold meltdown it was disclosed that the insurance industry has records of houses that had water claims, other than storm related. Most were plumbing leaks, broken pipes, commode and bathtub overflows from children, dishwasher, hot water tank etc. Many of these type claims can be staged, and this was designed to screen the insureds and dwellings out by underwriting new business on first time policyholders.
All adjusters I know were not aware records were kept, until the some insureds began having more than one claim by purchasing additional older houses and filing claims. The real estate community discovered it when houses waiting to be closed at the title company could not close for lack of hazard insurance as either the insured had prior mold claims or the house had prior mold claims. All of the houses that have had a mold claim in the USA now have a record in CLUE (combined loss underwriting exchange ???) It also records theft claims.
This was a Texas problem primarly as the TX. HOB was much broader than ISO HO-3 Today the HOB is gone the HO A has replaced it HO-2(iso) and people will not turn in a water claim in Texas unless it runs up into the 5k range. The premium is about 2.5 times as much as 2000 rates and the coverage is named peril and old plumbing leaks is not a named peril. This problem was created by water remediation contractors in January of 2000. The IA office I was working for was advised to get as much education as possible. We attended about ten paid and free classes on deadly mold all sponsered by contractors and CIH's
Oh by the way in June 2002 we had the worst flood in NFIP history in Houston, tropical storm Allison. Over 79,000 houses flooded . About 10 % had flood insurance, with no mold coverage, no ALE coverage and no deaths or illness reported.
< Message edited by trader -- 7/15/2006 11:58:45 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The Mold Myth - 7/15/2006 10:12:54 PM
|
|
|
margar
Posts: 241
Joined: 3/18/2006
Home base: Benton, KY
Status: offline
|
Some of the more recent Carriers I have worked wind claims for have basically had identical standards when observing mold during your inspection. If the contaminated area is less than 100sq.ft or a 10x 10 area pay rip it out with added debris removal. If the concentrated area is greater than the 100 sq. area call Carrier for a preffered analytical firm to perform air quality test and remediation if needed.
Yesterdays over my shoulder, So I can't look backwards too long.
~ Jimmy Buffett~
|
|
|
|
!! You are viewing a post in the forum archive.
NOTICE: We are no longer using this forum for discussions. Please follow the links to the new forums.
Catastrophe Central-The Adjuster's Forum : Community Center- Forums
New Site Registration : New Site Login
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
User Agreement | Privacy Statement| Contact |Copyright 1995 - 2006 CatAdjuster.org. All rights reserved.
13.297
|
Printable Version
