"Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind?

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"Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 3/13/2004 6:44:19 PM

katadj

Posts: 684
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
Status: offline It seems that MD and other states have questioned the use of software pricing guides to settle losses.

This link should be required reading for everyone.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/weather/hurricane/bal-md.flood12mar12,0,254430.story

_____________________________

"Excellence often first appears as error. It is only in retrospect that wisdom emerges from ignorance and success from failure." Abraham Lincoln

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:04:09 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline You can read more of this discussion by following this link.
http://www.catadjuster.org/forum2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=899&whichpage=17

The last 10 post as of 4/21/04 are listed below.

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:06:37 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline Isabel was typical of most flood events.I believe if we looked at the Houston Flood, the percentage of those not happy with their settlement would equal or even exceed Isabels numbers. Isabel dealt with a huge number of beach front properties, The hot issue as I understand it is, which floor has coverage!!. I know that anyone living in an elevated building has a copy of their elevation certificate. Most of my insureds had theirs and I explained how to read and understand it. There are only two numbers important. The B.F.E.(base flood elevation) and the box on the bottom stating "ground adjacent to". The difference in these two numbers tells you which floors have coverage. If the B.F.E. is 8' and the ground adjacent to is 6', then everthing above the 2' mark has coverage. The flood "Zone" determines the parameters. In a "V" Zone the lowest horizontal structural member has to be above the B.F.E., "A" Zones are from the top of the floor. I dont know where the pilings come in to play, they have nothing to do with coverage. I hope we can let the powers that be, finish their job and hopefully put an end to blaming adjusters or software vendors for the discontented in Maryland. Y'all have a great day!!!

Posted By Russ on 4/18/04

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:07:35 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline Was the claim overpaid, was the claim underpaid. The truth often does not even come for months after the storm when the work and repairs have been completed. Does the insured file for a supplement? Most of the time if a building claim was properly worked you will the holdback and possiably a supplement will be requested. Should the homeowner not request the holdback so ofter one of two things have happened. The required work was not carried out or if work was done within the acv amount paid it stands, the claim was overpaid !

"Experienced adjusted" does not always mean a "quilified" adjuster. I have met adjusters who have years of experience but lack a lot in current policy knowledge, materials cost, custruction methods and will not take the time to look into local pricing. So many adjusters work on the "wham bam thank you mam" method and scream holy heck when claims servicing comapny opt to use the holdback untill the claim is reviewed and closed, "fully closed".

There are many adjusters out there who are profesionaly, properly motivated, up-to-date on policy and procedure. I have met many of these people and they are shining stars to me. The industry as a whole suffers when the adjuster is motivated to settle a claim based on what he will get paid or on his "opinion" of the homeowner. To me this is a better place to insert Dick Allen's favorite saying, "there is so much sadness in the world.

Don't ever be afraid to call you manager or file reviewer, discuss your thoughts, ask how the carrier and yes, manager and claims servicing company looks at something. We can't be all knowing in all things when we may service several companies in one year. Let the people us carry some of the baggage. Put their name and dates into your claim. This is a great CYA method. I would own the claims serving company if I wanted to take all of the hickies, I remain a lowly "I.A.", best way I know of passing the downside of this business on to someone elses shoulders.

This a hard industry to survive in. There is both good and bad and sometimes it growns into great or evil. This site was created for this reason. Roy and others wanted us to have a place to come together, share, grow, cry, cuss and solve some of the issues.

May there be many a stormy day ahead of us. (Hey without them we would all starve)

Posted by Stormdame on 4/18/04

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:09:53 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline Hello alanporco,

I am in the information / knowledge management field. Also, logistical and human behavorial study disciplines are woven into my research work.

I also feel it's important to respect other peoples desire to introduce themselves, and express themselves, as they alone see fit.

And for the record, both my forward / back slash keys work...and are used, I hope, responsibly.

I registered and joined the CADO community to learn more about consumer, carrier, policies, and "cat" / "daily" adjusting concerns. Any productive help regarding those people centric issues is appreciated.

For katadj,

Again, I am not an attorney of any flavor.

The study of anti-consumer, anti-trust, collusive, tortous interference, deceptive / uncompetitive / illegal restrictive trade business practices and issues make up part of the topography / geodesic like research and conclusions I'm involved in.

For you cliche' lovers,
"Junk in...sift the [defined] junk out"
data mining and sharing is what I do.

For you food lovers, I'm a "low fat consumer info linked-sausage maker".

Posted By ClmGui on 4/19/2004.

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:11:14 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline ClmGui:

"I also feel it's important to respect other peoples desire to introduce themselves, and express themselves, as they alone see fit."

You do, indeed, have the right noted above. You also need to understand, and should since you are involved in "human behavorial study disciplines," that when one party chooses anonymity and the other party is completely open about who they are and what they do, there is going to be doubt and mistrust of the hiding party.

The reference to your forward slash key has to do with another poster who has repeated brought issues (the same ones over and over) to this site over which we, as field adjusters, have no control.

If you ever decide to publish something, make sure you have a really, really good editor.

Posted by alanporco on 4/19/2004

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This is a Forum Archive Post. Click here to visit the current forum. Post #: 6

RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:12:07 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline ClmGui, I mean this in the most polite way possible, but judging from the questions you have asked you seem to know little or nothing about adjusting or the insurance business as a whole. Perhaps you should leave the how to guides to people who actually know something about it and have gotten that knowledge by actually doing it. I know I'd much rather read a how to build a deck book written by a carpenter or a cookbook written by a chef than by someone in the information/knowledge management field.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted by KileAnderson on 4/19/04

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:13:04 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline What a crock from all this reading of the 17 pages of posting, I am wore out reading all of this stuff. We offer the following to ponder.
1. Will the plantiff attorneys please come forward, you know they will.
2. Will the software players please step forward, the plantiff attorneys will be taking your depositions during their discovery period.
3. Will the wreck your own carriers please step forward. It seems you are guilty of wagging the dog.
4. Will the flood loss claimants, please step forward. There are lots of people ready to hear from you all over again.
5. Will all of the agents that sold all of these policies step forward, you might have some potential E and O blunders to cover.
6. Will the looser adjusters please leave the industry, so the real journeymen adjusters have their jobs back.

Posted by Quaka on 4/19/2004

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:13:58 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline Sounds like a Cuban PA from Miami?

Posted by Quaka on 4/19/2004

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:15:06 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline I do not understand why we keep playing their games. I do not appreciate any form of censorship other than that I impose on myself. I do this by either turning off what I find objectionable or ignoring it.

I appreciate the site and therefore am not going to turn it off therefore I will do the latter and and ignore anything posted by CLMGUI or reCONman.

Let's get back to the original thread, that being NFIP's mess on the East Coast.

Posted by Bampabear on 4/20/2004

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/21/2004 8:16:07 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline There are enough issues at the present time. Why muddy the waters more, with lawyers, suits, accusations etc.

All NFIP is doing is attempting to clarify some issues that may have been misrepresented, mal-adjusted, or just a clear mistake.

Let us give them the opportunity to rectify those mistakes, settle the claims fairly and go on to the next event.

We all have made errors either in judgment, or interpretation of policy, or estimating. At least the NFIP is attempting to satisfy the claimants and have not closed the door on them. The final outcome is yet to be seen.

Possibly the file complaints, reviews, re-inspections and required supplements will allow this issue to pass within a reasonable time. (The 2004 Hurricane season is nigh)

The NFIP is the only source of flood insurance, and those that work flood, (Our comrades –in-arms), are dependent on this, so why bite the hand that feeds us?

Posted by Katadj on 4/21/04

< Message edited by Admin -- 2/21/2010 5:15:38 PM >

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/22/2004 2:41:36 PM

katadj

Posts: 684
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
Status: offline Looks like some positive moves are going to have an effect. The outreach programs appear to have a welcoming:

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/dp-97622sy0apr22,0,2820148.story?coll=dp-news-local-final

Also in Virginia:

http://www.wavy.com/global/story.asp?s=1797048&ClientType=Printable

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/22/2004 9:35:27 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline Posted by Quaka in the old forum on 4/22/04.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/dp-97622sy0apr22,0,2820148.story?coll=dp-news-local-final
Help offered for flood victims unhappy with insurance
Representatives of the National Flood Insurance Program have talked to more than 100 people at meetings in area.

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/22/2004 9:39:28 PM

Admin

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/18/2004
Home base: Texarkana, Texas
Status: offline Posted by KileAnderson on 4/22/04.

MMMMM...this is starting to sound like something someone predicted several weeks ago....who was that guy?

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/23/2004 3:27:21 PM

RobertV

Posts: 493
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Boerne, TX
Status: offline From The Baltimore Sun...
By Andrew A. Green
Sun Staff
Originally published March 28, 2004
Until six months ago, Steve Kanstoroom hadn't given flood insurance a second thought. But on Thursday, the retired consultant from Talbot County was sitting with the head of the federal flood insurance program in the lobby of a suburban Washington office tower, sharing insights into ways to prevent a repeat of the widespread problems with claims that followed...
(Link to B.S. and the story http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/weather/hurricane/bal-isabel0328,0,1909975.story?coll=bal-hurricane-headlines

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/23/2004 3:28:34 PM

RobertV

Posts: 493
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Boerne, TX
Status: offline That's my guess for Clm Gui's masked identity...

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/27/2004 11:48:05 AM

katadj

Posts: 684
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
Status: offline It may be that some progress is being made, but at what expense in time?

Here is the latest from the Sun:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/weather/hurricane/bal-md.flood26apr26,0,2679275.story?coll=bal-hurricane-headlines

< Message edited by Admin -- 2/21/2010 5:19:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Excellence often first appears as error. It is only in retrospect that wisdom emerges from ignorance and success from failure." Abraham Lincoln

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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/27/2004 11:56:59 PM

sjk

Posts: 20
Joined: 4/27/2004
Home base: Oxford, MD
Status: offline To: rvondohlen
From: Steve Kanstoroom
Re: No Cigar, I’m Not CLM GUI

Thanks for the 2 minutes of fame. I would have written sooner except, since the 3/28 Baltimore Sun article ran, I have been busy enlarging all of the doorjambs in my house so my head will fit through. Rest assured, I am not CLM GUI. If you have a burning desire to uncover his identity, perhaps you could work something out with the admin.

I have worked on this issue since November. At this point several issues stand out.

Most adjusters believed they were doing the right thing, whether it be allowing only four feet of sheetrock to be replaced, or disallowing first floor enclosures. No one should expect that adjusters be required to read 332 pages of regulations, and several other books incorporated by reference, in order to perform their job. Nor should they be required to catch when the claims manual is out of sync with the regulations. I believe adjusters should be able to rely upon instructions provided to them by the WYO’s as accurate. After all, the WYO’s, based upon published figures, collectively make more than 600 million a year in the form of their share of premiums. Certainly they should be able to properly comprehend the regulations and be aware that the intent of the Act, contrary to common misconceptions, is to make the insured whole for a covered peril. Perhaps some might even suggest that, in the event the WYO received instructions contrary to the Act, the WYO had an obligation to bring such a matter to NFIP’s attention.

Unwritten rules, or rather rules that are inconsistent with the regulations and the intent of the Act, and delivered in the form of verbal instructions or email from third party administrators, other contractors, or others, have been relied upon in many cases by adjusters and adjusting firms to the detriment of the flood victims.

Several of your colleagues have contacted me wanting to help shortchanged victims, yet wary of reprisals. They have reported pressure from examiners to change their proof of loss forms, and threats of an E&O claim, or worse, in the event that they failed to make such adjustments. Others have expressed a desire to right what they believed were other wrongs, however, are concerned that such information could cause them distress in one from or another. Still others are concerned about WYO efforts to replace qualified adjusters with less qualified, laptop equipped claims writers. In their view, these people are unable to adjust and unlikely to question dubious practices – giving competent adjusters a bad name. All had concerns that their information would reach people in a position to act responsibly upon it.

At this time countless victims remain in the position of being unable to put their life back together due to a failure to receive adequate compensation for a covered peril. We are not talking about under insured or contents vs. property issues. We are talking about .30 on the dollar; squawk and they get .60. Next, the policyholder gets a letter from the WYO reminding them that they can file suit in Federal Court. This type of treatment has been unleashed on families that are split – children forced to live with neighbors so they can remain in their school district; a family with their home stuck 15’ in the air on 6x6s unable to afford to lower it back onto the newly constructed foundation, living in a camper set in a sea of mud all the while, until very recently, being harassed about how much longer they will need to use the FEMA camper; an elderly couple forced to sell a flood damaged home “as is”, unable to afford a mortgage and rent, worn down by stonewalling and low-balling. I have personally come in contact with more than a hundred of these situations. These people will never be made whole, even if eight months after the loss they receive the compensation they deserved months ago. Some have lost their pets; many say they have lost family members due to heart attacks from the endless stress. In many cases their finances go, then their relationships crumble. All the while, according to the MD Insurance Administration and the Baltimore Sun and others, WYO’s have resisted turning files over, citing “privacy concerns” to the State Insurance Commissioner and FEMA, thereby further delaying the claims process.

At this time I continue to believe from first hand encounters that senior management in FEMA’s Mitigation Division is deeply committed to “doing the right thing”. If you believe you have any information that would help them to turn their ship around, or other information you feel they should know, I would suggest you call them. Anthony Lowe, Director can be reached at 202 646-2780, his Deputy Director Trey Reid can be reached at 202 646-3595. Alternatively, you could call Andy Green at the Baltimore Sun 410 494-2935.

Steve Kanstoroom
Cell 301 503-6078
sjk@varidynecorp.com

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This is a Forum Archive Post. Click here to visit the current forum. Post #: 18

RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/28/2004 8:40:37 AM

KileAnderson

Posts: 199
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Baton Rouge, LA
Status: offline Steve,

You mentioned replacing drywall 4' up when walls are damaged from flood. I assume you are talking about when damage does not extend above 4' up. I have always been instructed to do repairs this way by the WYO and by the NFIP. It is in their own guidelines. A couple of years ago at the claims conference we were even told to only go up 2' or 3' if that is all that is damaged. Are you saying that according to the policy this is not a legitimate form of repair? Believe me, I'd love to pay for every square inch of drywall in a building, I make more money that way.

Also I would like to know about your statement that the policy was intended to make the insured whole again. How can an ACV policy ever make an insured whole again? Contents are ALWAYS settled on ACV and if the Insured to Value ratio is less than 80% then full RC is not owed on the building portion of the claim. Obviously this is not enough insurance to make the insured whole again without some out of pocket expense.

I am from Louisiana. We get flooded all the time and people that live in flood prone areas of the state know that flood insurance doesn't cover everything. Why have there been dozens and dozens of flood events in Louisiana and no big stink, but one event in Maryland and suddenly the entire system is flawed and broken? I'm just curious.

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< Message edited by KileAnderson -- 4/28/2004 8:42:44 AM >

This is a Forum Archive Post. Click here to visit the current forum. Post #: 19

RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 4/28/2004 11:49:35 AM

olderthendirt

Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: homeless
Status: offline It was my understanding that one of the complaints was that the flood level was being used to determine the amount of drywall to remove, and while that working in many cases, that times when the damages go higher. One of the reasons they call use adjusters is that we are susposed to be able to recognize damages that are there not just on a piece of paper on an examiners desk. Hopefully this whole mess will resulting in improvements of the flood policy.

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Cognoscente scruple, jemmy bafflement.

Describer abjective hepatogastric cutout hunchback judgmatical thermonuclear ecotoxicology!

This is a Forum Archive Post. Click here to visit the current forum. Post #: 20

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