RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind?
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/7/2004 8:30:10 PM
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mtmone
Posts: 81
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Hatteras, NC
Status: offline
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hey, just realized what time it was...gotta get! It is really intersting hearing the "other side"....I'll try to listen in again tommorrow. good night!
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/7/2004 9:15:40 PM
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katadj
Posts: 684
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
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There is a Fee schedule on flood claims as with all vendors on all types of cat claims.
The schedule is available from the NFIP web site.
It is not great, considering one has to make about 4 trips to the loss before finalizing the file, inspection, collecting contents lists, explaining estimate and delivering the proofs and finals, and then collecting the originals.
Nope, not a wonder that many "seasoned" adjusters don't like flood work.
_____________________________
"Excellence often first appears as error. It is only in retrospect that wisdom emerges from ignorance and success from failure." Abraham Lincoln
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 2:19:53 AM
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katadj
Posts: 684
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
Status: offline
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NATIONAL FLOOD INSURANCE PROGRAM Bureau and Statistical Agent
W-04023
MEMORANDUM TO: Write Your Own (WYO) Principal Coordinators and NFIP Servicing Agent
FROM: WYO Clearinghouse
DATE: June 7, 2004
SUBJECT: Institute for Business and Home Safety (IBHS) Executive Flood Committee Meeting
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and the Institute of Business and Home Safety have agreed to provide an opportunity for all non-IBHS member Write Your Own (WYO) companies to discuss matters of concern before the IBHS Executive Flood Committee.
A call for meeting notification and agenda will be distributed to all WYO Companies prior to the IBHS Executive Flood Committee meeting. Any non-IBHS member WYO Company wishing to address the Committee should contact the Committee Chair or the Committee Staff representative prior to the meeting date. Once approved, the presenter will be notified of a specific time scheduled for the presentation. Action taken will be reported to the presenter within 30 days.
The contact information is as follows: Committee Chair: Patty Templeton-Jones
Telephone: 866-373-5663, ext. 4492 Committee Staff: James W. Russell
Telephone: 813-286-3400 ext. 111
IBHS 2004 Meeting Schedule
Executive Flood Committee IBHS General Flood Committee June 21, 2004 June 22, 2004 October 25, 2004 October 26, 2004
If you have any questions or need additional information, please contact your Program Coordinator.
Attachments
Cc: Technical Government Representative, Vendors, WYO Marketing, FIPNC, IBHS Suggested Routing: Underwriting, Claims, Marketing
7700 HUBBLE DRIVE • LANHAM, MD 20706 • (301) 731-5300
COMPUTER SCIENCES CORPORATION, under contract to the FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, is the Bureau and Statistical Agent for the National Flood Insurance Program[image][/image]AGENDA
IBHS Flood Committee Executive Session Hilton Garden Inn Franklin Square 815 14th St., NW Washington, DC 20005 June 21, 2004
I. Call to Order Chair, Patty Templeton-Jones will call the meeting to order at 1:00 p.m. on Monday, June 21, 2004.
A. Antitrust and Lobby Tax Compliance Statements. These statements are enclosed and the meeting will be conducted in accordance with them. B. Committee Roster. A copy of the current roster will be distributed for accuracy and attendance checks.
II. Review of Minutes A. Executive Session: February 23, 2004 B. General Session: February 24, 2004
III. Old Business A. Legislative Update by FEMA executive B. Executive Committee Priorities:
i. Arrangement/Federal Pre-emption
ii. Adequacy of expense allowance
iii. Marketing Goals
iv. Next Gen
C. Status Report: NFIP Re-Authorization D. Status Report: The Arrangement E. Expense Allowance F. Marketing Goals/Incentive G. Bonus Incentive H. Status Report: Elevation Certificate Work Group
I. Status Report: Policy Growth Work Group J. Status Report: Stop Sign
IV. New Business A. Class Action Lawsuit re. Hurricane Isabel Flood Claims B. Handling of claims by Hurricane Isabel Task Force
i. Adjuster actions
ii. Repeated calls to WYO seeking the same data for same claim
C. Guiding principles for review of policy revision suggestions and goals for
future policy D. Policy and/or practice modification as related toi. Impact on marketing
ii. Impact on pricing E. The revised and consolidated list of 20 recommendations
i. Was a comment offered by June 10 as requested?
ii. Sent to any WYO, Committee person or other? F. Review of the List of 20 recommendations G. Does the Committee wish to add, delete, prioritize and/or weight the
items? H. Other possible considerations
i. Concept of subsidy
ii. Rating simplification
iii. Affordability
iv. Cost-benefit
v. Consistency with system practice
I. PCIAA interest J. Any additions or deletions for Flood Committee Priorities? K. Other
L. Future Meetings
i. October 25 – 26 2004 Hilton Garden Inn, Franklin Square, DC.
ii. February 13 – 14, 2005 Site TBA
iii. June 13 – 14, 2005 Site TBA
iv. October 24 – 25, 2005 Site TBA
V. Adjournment
< Message edited by katadj -- 6/8/2004 3:25:34 AM >
_____________________________
"Excellence often first appears as error. It is only in retrospect that wisdom emerges from ignorance and success from failure." Abraham Lincoln
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 7:07:48 AM
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mtmone
Posts: 81
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Hatteras, NC
Status: offline
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No Gale, I hadn't read the complaint, did see the article announcing it (just did download it). Not sure I really follow all of what you are saying, was not aware of the California earthquake issue.
Yes, my main concern to start with was locally with the low estimates that we were seeing, the adjusters that seemed to be confused as to where the first floor was, and the slowness of payment.
It wasn't until mid-January that I was aware that Maryland had experienced extensive flooding. I guess in the days after the storm we were so isolated that by the time we got back online, the hurricane was "old news" to most people. When I read the Larsen report, I felt as if someone had lived in my shoes the past 5 months since the storm. It so eerily mirrored exactly our experiences.
I think my main goal right now if I had any say would be to find out what made it so difficult to get payment and make sure those issues are rectified so that others do not have to go through this again. One statement that I just read in the complaint really rings true and gets to the essence of my concerns……. Nature of the action #2, The purpose of the federal program is to protect homeowners from losses associated with a flood catastrophe and, more broadly, to prevent the community-wide immobilization that results when funds to re-build are not available after a major flood.
I hope when all is said and done, the folks responsible will realize their actions or inactions? also caused economic damage to residents whose homes did not flood. Our economy is almost entirely tourism based, because of not having lodging available we had fisherman that couldn’t take our charters, we had waitresses that did not have customers to serve, we had cleaners that could not clean cottages (some drive 4 hours each way to work, that is how economically depressed inland eastern NC is), ect ect. We became a burden to our State and that did not sit well with us. We are a proud, independent, and hard working village and we did not want any part of handouts, just insurance payment for damages from flooding. The Red Cross, Salvation Army ect are wonderful organizations that exist to help the less fortunate that have no other resources, not those of us that were insured.
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 5:47:44 PM
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Leam Kincaid
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/1/2004
Status: offline
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mtmone,
Claim settlement stories from around the nation are similar to what you and your neighbors have experienced from hurricane Isabel.
I have recently received some public record documentation from the state of Texas Department of Insurace that specifically shows how some major insurers are currently underestimating and underpaying claims there on catastrophe and daily claims.
Included are actual estimates that have been handed to the insurers (unsuspecting) clients.
I will strike out any "private" information, but the rest of the estimating and supplemental information may prove helpful to you to show the governmental authorities that you are in contact with that unfair claim settlements and underpayments are a daily practice of some major insurers.
Would you care for a faxed or e-mailed copy of those documents to compare to?
Also, I'm very interested in whether the Texas claim settlement practices are duplicate, or similar to, hurricane Isabel claim estimating / settlement practices.
Would you have, or can you obtain, any complete copies of the initial and final estimated claim settlement documentation from the 12 people you know of, or others?
The initial explanations for the underpayments, and the explanations for the underpayment corrections would be helpful also.
I can be contacted at leamkincaid@hotmail.com.
< Message edited by Leam Kincaid -- 6/8/2004 6:19:02 PM >
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 6:19:53 PM
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Leam Kincaid
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/1/2004
Status: offline
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Trouble maker? Enemy? What do you mean by those remarks?
< Message edited by Leam Kincaid -- 6/8/2004 6:24:14 PM >
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 7:49:22 PM
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Gale
Posts: 736
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Murray, KY
Status: offline
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Mtmone, some can sense a high level of pain related to your story. As Leam points out cases similar to your case are repeated over and over across the US each year. Hopefully these cases are just out of ignorance and there is no criminal intent but never the less real people are experiencing real pain and ongoing financial losses well beyond the initial property losses that occurred as you clearly have pointed out. Perhaps now that the claims have turned into legal evidence due to the lawsuits in progress the legal council of the named parties may not be excited to turn them back into NFIP so NFIP can personally address these claims in a timely manner as they have stated is their goal.
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 8:41:50 PM
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Leam Kincaid
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/1/2004
Status: offline
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quote:
As someone who does alot of work for a large carrier I can tell you without a doubt that carriers do not systematically underpay claims.
You are quite, quite mistaken.
quote:
I'm just guessing but I'm willing to bet you are either a PA or an attorney looking for the next mold hysteria or class action suit.
You are quite mistaken again.
I'm just an ordinary working guy who hates seeing people being bullied and ripped off by insurers via so called professional "adjusters".
Again, what did you mean by referring to me as being a "trouble maker" and "the enemy"?
< Message edited by Leam Kincaid -- 6/8/2004 8:42:27 PM >
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 8:59:11 PM
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Johnd
Posts: 244
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Leam, or Clm Gui, or ConMan, OR whatever or whoever you are:
If you can read and understand the King's English, I think Kile is trying to tell you that he thinks you are a snake in the grass. And so do I....... Dont give us that ordinary Guy out to save the world BS, most folks here did not fall off a watermellon truck last week. Clm Gui started out that way, telling everyone he was going to write a manual on insurance claims. Shoot straight with the people here and they will respond in like manner. If not, let your fingers do the walking...
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 9:16:48 PM
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KileAnderson
Posts: 199
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Home base: Baton Rouge, LA
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Leam/ClmGui/Conman
I know from experience that I am right and you are wrong. On the storm that I am currently working, in a year we have paid over 5000 claims. I have handled every single reopen and this being a small town, I run into insureds at the mall and at Walmart and the gas station. People send me contractor's estimates everyday. I reconcile them and sometimes we owe them more money and I pay it. Many times when I find out that we have actually overpaid them. I don't ask for the money back. On 3 seperate occasions people have brought checks into their agents offices for the overpayment because they didn't feel it was right to keep the additional money.
Sure we've had a few people that I simply had to say, sorry you're contractor is ripping you off, get another estimate or pay the difference yourself. Just yesterday I had a contractor tell me that he charges $200 a square, that's his price and since the insured can use the contractor of his choice and he chose that contractor I had to pay it. I politely said, yes he can use the contractor of his choice but I don't have to pay an outrageous price so the insured can get another contractor or pay the difference.
In my experience, contractors rip people off much more often than insurance companies do.
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 10:10:27 PM
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KileAnderson
Posts: 199
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Baton Rouge, LA
Status: offline
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Leam, I don't know who you are, but unless you are an aduster I can almost guarantee that I have dealt with many more claims than you have. I have never seen a carrier try to low ball or rip off or purposely underpay a claim. NEVER!
I have on more claims than I can count seen an insured try to con, cheat, lie, and defraud the insurance company. It happens all the time. For some reason people believe that cheating an insurance company out of some money is perfectly OK.
I am a professional insurance adjuster. I specialize in catastrophe claims. I handle wind, hail, flood, ice and just about any other kind of claim that mother nature can throw at a building. I am also certified to adjust earthquake losses and Automotive claims for hail and flood. I'm currently studying for my AIC designation and I hope to get some training in environmental claims and marine losses.
Now you know who I am, to quote Roger Daltrey "Who are you? Who? Who?...Who? Who?"
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? - 6/8/2004 11:22:39 PM
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sbeau4014
Posts: 167
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Wherever The Wind Blows, USA
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Leam, I noted that your profile is a bit lacking on what you do, experience in the filed, etc. It just states "studying" in the years of adjusting experience section. Could you elaborate on that a bit so we can get a feel on what your studies are about? Does it pertain to insurance adjusting at all? Have you ever been a licensed adjuster in the past (or present for that matter)? This site is designed to be used for communication between, and education of, catastrophe adjusters and based on some of your posts I'd venture to guess you don't care one bit for the adjusting community or insurance companies in general. There are plenty of web sites out there that would welcome you and your thoughts with open arms, but I'm afraid you won't get the same reception here. There have been a few before you under a different alias, but the speech remains the same. Stick around and have fun, but don't look for a very sympathic crowd here.
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RE: "Isabel", is a Hot Potato headed behind? -