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C Bond
32 Posts |
 Posted - 12/20/2003 : 21:23:30
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Mr. Carr
I dont believe I've introduced myself to the site. My friends call me Chuck. I've updated my profile. I was raised a third generation contractor. After first leaving the farm for the riches to be made roughnecking in the oil patch, I moved back home and graduated from SIU-E with a B.S. in Clinical Psychology. During the course of my college years I met my wife to be. With the arrival of an early family, I began to provide for my new family as a general contractor. ( a B***. S***. shrink doesn't pay much). The last 15 years to present have been spent establishing a concrete and fondation business that in some years did very well by small town standards. That line of work is similar to a professional athlete, and under the advice of a neural surgeon I have changed careers.
I currently have been taken in under the wing of a local IA, that based on all I've read on this site, is providing me with the opportunity and guildence required to achive the level of professionalism that earns the respect of which you wrote. Even though I am but a babe in the woods, I too have felt the respect of the insured and others since the career move. All the attractions that you expressed about being an adjuster, I have experienced. The challenges of bringing together the main components of a claim; Loss diagnosis, appling coverage, and bringing it all together through personal interaction with people on both sides of the claim, is truly rewarding.
In regard to the changing tides of the profession of adjusting. We agree that the only constant IS change. I hope the the wholelistic effect of using estimators instead of adjusters will result in a wider gap between the insured and the carrier. The insured population wants with all their heart to be able to TRUST their carrier. Thats the motivation behnd the "good hands" slogan. It's been my experience so far that when you are able to explain the claim process and apply coverage for the insured, you instill in them some level of trust because they recognize a profesional. This will not be the case with an estimator. If a general explaination of coverage is not provided to the insured at the time of inspection. Their conception of respect and thus trust is replace with thoughts of an untrustworthy insurance company. Their is no replacing the True Adjuster. You are right, respect and trust are earned traits.
For the second time in my life the good Lord has provided me with the opportunity to spend my time here on earth as a professional that can have a positive effect on the lives of many. I won't pass up opportunity twice. I do not and will not betray the trust granted me by the insured or my colleagues, to conduct myself in the most professional of manner. For this reason I hold in high regard most of what is said by you and so many others on this site.
Please keep the experience coming. I can use all I can get.
Chuck Bond |
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C Bond
32 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 13:46:22
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| Perhaps the current trend of the carriers to employ estimators rather than adjusters would have a positive effect on the cost of E&O Insurance to the ranks. The issue of libility was addressed in a previous post by MRicharson1952 Posted - 12/18/2003 : 08:50:27 in the thread regarding holdback. Presumably if there is a clear distinction between bonafided adjusters and other untrained indiviguals, the exposure to liability on the part of the carriers of Adjuster E&O will be reduced causing rates to fall. Wishful thinking probably. I've been told that in MO the last provider of E&O has pulled up stakes and left. I am assuming that this is partually due to the fact that this state has no licence requirements for adjusters and thus anybody can perform in this capacity requardless of ability. Hopefully the expertice of the adjuster wont become such a high priced commodity that the estimators end up with all the work. |
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johnpostava
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 18:35:09
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As most cat adjusters know the last good E&O vendor pulled out of several states (including Florida where our firm is domiciled) and left a large number of cat firms and NACA memebers in the E&O lurch - without coverage. Most everyone has found a replacement E&O provider by now and all is again right in our litigious world.
In the state of Florida you do not need to have a permanent Florida adjuster's license when adjusting cat claims but you do have to have a "sponsor" adjuster for your temporary license permit which is required within 60 days of deployment. Last I knew, adjusters or firms adjusting claims without a temporary license (backed up with a resident adjuster's license) faced fines of up to $10,000.00 per CLAIM HANDLED).
When it comes to Florida, it is my belief that if you are adjusting losses or even preparing estimates with policy coverages and exclusions in mind, you are interpeting an insurance policy (aka legal contract) and you better be licensed. Some food for thought the next time you are on your way to the Sunshine State! |
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dano009
46 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 19:10:20
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| That precisely why I got my non-resident independent all lines adjuster license. Hardest adjuster's license I ever applied for! |
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khromas
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 19:35:53
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I looked over in the licensing sub-forum topic and saw that someone had requested info regarding the non-resident Florida license but no responses were posted.
dano009 - can you share the process you went through to get that? I am sure it would be appreciated!
(Post it in the licensing assistance forum so it will be easy to find.)
Thanks |
Kevin Hromas |
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J G Cournoyer
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 23:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by MRichardson1952
Mr. Carr,
I agree with your thoughts. My feeling is that the educated skilled adjuster is needed on every claim that we've talked about. What has been happening is that it takes a skilled adjuster to know what is and what isn't covered, etc. The company's that are asking for them to "make no commitment" in the field are just exercising their right to make final decisions and inform their own policyholders of the results.
I see no major problem with that, in fact in some cases, it makes it easier for the field adjuster to close their file and move on to the next matter.
"easier to close their file", shouldn't be the prime goal here. Seeing the damage & reading about the damage are, as we all know, quite different. A pic is worth a thousand words, but there is nothing like being there. |
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MRichardson1952
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2003 : 03:33:14
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Let's keep one thing in focus, regardless of the Florida rules, good adjusters can obtain a license where ever they need to. That doesn't mean they have the market cornered on what's best for the policyholder, they're just trying to get more money in the bank, and we all know it.
Florida, like Texas is not, and should not be the yard stick for we know is a good business through-out the US. There's plenty of work in other area's of the county and these two states can park it where the sun doesn't shine. We, who have been around for over 20 years years know better, and the new people who I care about, need not get rear-ended with a bunch of B.S. and scared off of what is so easy to circumvent.
I've been kept busy for a long time and made good money and have only worked in Texas and Florida twice, so they have very little to do with real work and money going on,
(comments deleted by moderator due to off-topic and inflammatory) |
Edited by - Tom Toll on 12/29/2003 18:28:15 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 17:45:05
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Actually RV, I think your message here (as well as the slightly different one under another thread) are in fact, quite timely and could well have been written by any one of dozens of adjusters who share your views. The unfortunate thing is that the truth about what the real problems are needs to be told but no one wants to hear and face the truth. Telling the truth would require that toes be stepped on which might scuff the shoes of vendors and one peril tarpots who would call themselves cat adjusters.
I hope you will continue to share your insights as they closely reflect those of many of us here who have privately shared our thoughts. You're much closer to an understanding of what lies ahead for this profession than most here and your awareness of "the whys" is equally important to be vocalized.
Stay the course. |
Edited by - JimF on 01/09/2004 17:50:00 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 18:11:51
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Wonder what would happen on the next storm if every adjuster just automatically overrode the Xactimate or Simsol or Carrier pricing list, and wrote every roofing minimum charge on their estimates at $93.00 (60% of $155.00) without any explanation.
Can you not imagine being called into the vendor or carrier storm office and asked a question something along these lines: "where in the hell do you think we are going to find any roofer or idiot to go out and inspect/repair a roof for $93.00? No roofer in their right mind would even crank up their pick up truck and pull a ladder for less than a couple of hundred bucks."
Perhaps this should be the form of "boycott" than Dave Hood was attempting to suggest a few days ago here on the CADO Forum; and perhaps we should hold to the position that cat adjusters should never have to work or be paid less for inspecting any roof than whatever the prevailing minimum charge is allowed for roofers.
Why don't we all say to the carriers, either raise our minimum charge to your prevailing roofing minimum charge or else sanction a lowering of the roofer's minimum charges to what pittance they pay us. After all, it's only fair. Adjusters and roofers should be treated fairly. And they should not be treated less than equally.
What do you think Ghostbuster? |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 20:08:16
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I've been watching too many of the old musicals on TV lately.
I'm trying to think of a fitting song to match this rising tide of revolution and near anarchy. We need some mood music to hum along with as we concoct our cells of conspiracy to make our work lives a better place. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 20:29:57
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| Hey, RV. If you are paying $3000 for a laptop and $500 for a multi-function printer and $800 for a camera I'm going to quit adjusting and start selling hardware to you gullible adjusters. I can sell you all that stuff for half those prices all day long and still make a hell of a profit. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 01/09/2004 20:31:13 |
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dano009
46 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 20:37:31
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| R.V. Winkles post, supra, is EXACTLY why I REFUSE to work any cat claims unless it is like a hurricane 4 or 5 or like a major earthquake or something huge along those lines. I'm college educated and being doing claims since I got my diploma twenty years ago. What carriers and or vendors are paying are basically for novice work. That's fine I guess. They (vendors/carriers) get what they pay for! |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 03:24:45
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Memo to RV: Some of the "day rates" ("net" to the adjuster either before or after "expenses") paid to cat adjusters out there are actually less than the minimum charge allowed to a roofer in an estimate for one claim.
Shouldn't that tell us what some carriers and vendors think adjusters are worth? And doesn't it also reflect how adjusters perceive the value of their own time, product and risk?
As the fee schedules keep getting beaten and bid down, are we all just getting more and more desperate or what?
Ghostbuster turn up the music a little louder please.....and may I suggest "If Ever I Would Leave You"?
(Hmmm, or was it, they left us?) |
Edited by - JimF on 01/10/2004 12:50:45 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 13:42:22
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It's the market fellas. You get what you pay for. I am not one complaining about what I make. I'm very happy, but as a capitalist I would love to make more and would not turn down a pay increase.
The carriers are apparently happy with what they are getting because if they weren't they would be looking for other ways to get what they want. If they are unhappy with the quality of the work they are getting from the independants they are being supplied with they would up the ante to increase the quality of the product supplied.
It has been mentioned previously that as with everything there is a pendulum. When the price gets too high for the perceived value they get in return, the carriers start to demand a lower fee schedule. When the quality of the product they recieve starts to dwindle and becomes less than acceptable they juice the schedule as an incentive to increase quality. More money brings in better qualified and more motivated people. It's just that simple. Hang in there, when the pendulum swings the other way the ones who stuck it out will be the first to benefit. |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 15:14:26
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Why should an Insurance Company pay a person with less than a weeks training to walk on a simple gable roof(rectangle )with 2 slopes that has 15 sq of comp shingles hit by baseball size hail a fee bill of $180.00 for the 1001.01 to 1500.00 bracket; but if the roof had a $40.00 turbine the fee goes to 1500.01 to 2,000.00 or 210.00
Now the same person walks next door and gets on the simple walk on, same rectangle but longer rafters, and length , measures 60 sqs of 40 year comp. shingle RC of $7500.00 with a fee of $410.00 and finds
2 turbines which jumps the fee to $460.00. Difficulty, talent and experience should rewarded, but the whole fee schedule is out of wack. Let push for time & expense and see if the carriers will pay us for 16 hour days, 7 days for many weeks at a time. I would just love to sit in my room and keep the logs updated. |
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"Adjuster", or just a handler / estimator?
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