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Catmandale

USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  02:07:34  Show Profile
Don't forget cutting waste!

Assuming the room is 12'6 x 18 - and there are no direction issues:

3" added to each cut.

12 x 12'9 + 12 x 6'6 = 12 x 19'3 = 231 sf /9 = 25.67 sy.

Waste is needed because carpet is roll goods that develop a curvature, and must be straightedged for seaming (both side seams and end seam.) Factory cuts are not always square; rooms are not always square. The fill piece above requires two ends to be straightedged for seaming together. It should be noted that some carpets do not end seam well. Carpets in rolls tend to lay or crush in one direction, as they compressed in the roll. Take a look at the existing layout.
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RBECKINTEXAS

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  02:36:43  Show Profile
Well my answer was 33.33 and I didn't add waste. Unfortunitly the whole test wasn't that clear with a lot of issues. I didnt do as good as what I should of. Appearently everyone else didn't do so well either. How about you?
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Davey

USA
38 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  06:26:58  Show Profile
I think what this proves is that we all just rely on our estimating programs to provide us with the yardage with a given waste factor. Most of us probably hadn't done this by "hand" for a while and it shows.
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fivedaily

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  08:23:20  Show Profile
Actually, since my company switched to Integriclaim, I have used the roll-out method of carpet measurement each time. We estimate material units and non-materials units, differentiating between labor needed and raw material needed.

The answer of 33.33 sy of carpet needed to do the room would sufficiently cover the cutting on the sides, but I suppose it should be ammended for the 3" cutting waste on the ends.

24 (12' width of roll times 2) x 12'9" (length plus 6") = 312 sf/9 = 34.66 sy

Anyone disagree with me? If you disagree with me you should post your logic and calculations.

Jennifer

(I've got a diagram to post but am having trouble. I'll work on it and post later)
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chettb

1 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  08:42:15  Show Profile
for what it's worth - Isn't carpet to be measured by the sq ft, according to new regs? (1-2 yrs ago). And I believe it's add 3" to each end of the room.
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fivedaily

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  10:22:18  Show Profile
Chet - Whose regs???

The 3" should be added to the ends of the roll. At the beginning of the roll, add 3" for a even cut against the wall. Then when you cut on the other side of the room you already have an even edge to but against the first wall. Then you just have to trim the end of the roll against the far wall.

Clear as mud, right?

Jennifer
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mcaldwell

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  11:03:52  Show Profile
The test was not clear how they wanted the room calculated. I assumed cut and roll. The question may have been a simple area. I scored higher than my wife, that has made my week.

I will see a carpet vendor today and I will bring his wisdom back to this discussion.
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RBECKINTEXAS

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2004 :  15:06:38  Show Profile
With so many differant answers. This just adds to the confusion. Especially when you are looking for a specific answer to a test question which in return the giver of the test is looking for a specific answer, and it doesn't help when they didn't give you any guidlines or a preview. No wonder why the majority of the people had problems with the test. The Test question was in SQ yards, But I have been writting my estimates in SQ feet.
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Catmandale

USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2004 :  01:22:30  Show Profile
Richard,

Carpet is ordered by the lineal foot from the mill,in 12 foot rolls. There is not a whole lot of 15 foot material out there. Most carpet mills just aren't set up for it. The machinery is for the most part 12 foot in breadth.

The main reason for drops and roll measuring is to consider waste factors...both allowing enough for drops and utilizing the waste cuts. In a whole house, the waste factor can drop appreciably.

But that only addresses quantity.

The rest of the story is value. Xactimate has only four grades of carpet. Needless to say, there are many more. Having the exact yardage but missing the value by 2 bucks a yard means you are still wrong. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I remember certification tests that made sure you deducted the width of door casing and the opening for baseboard.

We can only split hairs so many ways.
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Todd Summers

USA
99 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2004 :  11:03:21  Show Profile
Jennifer,
Your initial calculation was correct. The 3" is not necessary because you will still have roughly a 5' strip that is the width of the room (12.5) leftover. I say 5 ft instead of 6 because for the most part you cannot simply "butt" a factory edge against one wall. It is usually cruched, out of square or samples (swatches) have been removed by salesmen. Once upon a time I installed carpet and we nearly always had to square up the roll and each of the 4 walls had to be trimmed. This is where the 3" come in. But since you are buying enough for two 12 x 12.5 pieces and the room is only 18' long, you will have a piece that is roughly 5 x 12.5 leftover...I think.

Kile and Davey, it is generally accepted (except for some ignorant cheapskate claims mgrs) that the nap must lie in the same direction, therefore you need TWO 12 x 12.5 cuts.

Edited by - Todd Summers on 02/27/2004 11:07:12
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ChuckDeaton

USA
373 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2004 :  13:16:51  Show Profile
As always we need to seperate the estimate written by a damage appraiser/adjuster from the bid made by the carpet dealer who is selling and installing the carpet.
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gloverb

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2004 :  13:50:57  Show Profile
I took the Nationwide test as well. I think the actual dimension was 12'6" x 18'3". I came up with 33 1/3 yards. You have 1 cut, 12'x 12'6" which leaves a 6'3"x12'6" area to fill. Because of nap & color you must take another full 12"x12'6" (it has to be run in the same direction). Because there is a width of 6'3" left a 12 x 6 piece put in with a t-seam will not fit this area.

So you have 2 x 12' x 12'6" = 300sf of carpet divided by 9 giving you 33 1/3 yds. I am a contractor as well as an adjuster & this is how the flooring companies measure it.

I have used a standard waste factor in the past, & for large areas or entire house 15% usually works okay. In this example you would be at least 4 or 5 yards short on carpet.
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KileAnderson

USA
875 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2004 :  17:08:46  Show Profile
Todd, you are absolutely correct, that's what I get for trying to figure this out all in my head and not drawing a diagram. It would be 2 12*12.5 sections.
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dano009

46 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2004 :  20:38:34  Show Profile
I have a question. I've always used the 10% waste factor (was even taught that at Vale) when I first started doing property claims in the mid 80's. Where did the "roll" method come from? Carrier's or carpet installers?
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Wes

USA
62 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2004 :  02:54:35  Show Profile
State Farm tried to instill the roll method on me.
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