| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Newt
USA
657 Posts |
 Posted - 12/09/2002 : 12:59:30
|
| PS We can assume both liberals and conservatives were investors, not all investors were politicians, and the investors lost. Was there insider trading, you bet, its not a political party thing, stuff happens in all walks, most of the insider trading was done by the CEOs, they can afford big fines and still be super rich. According to reports the big shots had sold their stock. |
 |
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 13:45:39
|
I have an old adage in politics which says: Politicians come (get elected) and go (get booted out), but bureaucrats stay forever (until they retire).
The bureaucrats are there to require more government forms, make many of the silly government rules, feather their own nests, grow their offices while resisting any attempt to reduce their power and influence, and they are resistant not only to the public but the politicians as well.
And if you know much about the Federal Civil Service rules, it is all but impossible to fire them. They're worse than 'Skeeters'.....
Neither liberal nor conservative, Democrat nor Republican has been able to figure out how to reduce their numbers in a meaningful way or control them from controlling us.
|
Edited by - JimF on 12/09/2002 13:49:10 |
|
|
|
Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 15:36:37
|
| Amen Cuz, We bicker they snicker. |
|
|
|
Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 19:10:29
|
Mr Flynt, Ronald Reagan knew how to controll them, look at what he did with the ATC when they went on strike. Problem is nobody has the CAHONES to do anything.
|
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 21:48:11
|
Mark, I do believe in abolishing minimum wage laws. I don't think we should get rid of child labor laws. We should spend more on enforcing truancy laws and hold parents accountable for making sure their kids show up at school and are ready to learn. Not taking an interest in your child's education and doing everything you can to prepair your child for school is some one of the worst forms of child neglect because it dooms a child for the rest of his or her life.
As far as the minimum wage, all it does is penalize the hard workers and reward those with a poor work ethic. No matter how much you raise the minumum wage it will never be enough because everytime you raise it, all the prices for basic services will go up and when you give those at the bottom of the income ladder a boost, demand for things will go up because they can now afford a little bit more. Since the demand goes up, the price goes up. That's why it now costs $7.50 to see a movie, because that is what the kid working at McDonalds can afford. An artificial price floor on labor does nothing more than contribute to inflation. |
|
|
|
olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 08:39:01
|
| Great in theory, but so many of our corporate leaders have fewer moral values then you attribute to liberals, or is unchecked corporate greed ok as long as we call it capitalism? What would you do with all those homeless you would have, put them in labour camps? |
|
|
|
Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 09:36:58
|
Lets face it, the problem with many kids today is boredom and lack of initiative to do any thing about it.
As a kid I grew up without parents, I had nothing except my own mind to create something to do.
I swore to my self after I got older my kids would never go through what I did and I think most
older parents felt the same way. One thing I did was never get the kids any toys that didn,t require some thinking and imagination, it had to serve a purpose. That was not a mistake, because they grew up with a desire to take on every thing in a fever pitch. My son started playing chess at four and could take on most adults at 12 and win. My daughters were interested in arts and crafts, and I have some beautiful paintings on the wall they did in high school. At fourteen my son was good friends with Bill Haust of the Miami Serpentarium, and spent several week ends at their home, this was his snake phase. I encouraged any new venture the kids got into and was proud of their accomplishments. Every project I got into around the house they were part of, and we seldom see that in many families.
Today and the past twenty years, I have had the experience of going through homes, and it is much the same in each. The kids rooms are a mess, with so many stuffed toys, video games and junk. The only thing required is eye/hand coordination, the thing boils down to this, too many mindless games or toys, or too many toys and no tools. Kids need to be encouraged to improvise, invent and invision.
The only draw back to my way of thinking, by the age of four your kids will immediately take every thing apart to see how it works and you have to get rid of it after they find out. You cannot get upset over this, it shows signs of curosity and never discourage that.
Kids have a natural instinct for inventing their own toys, if left to their own devices. Take that away and you have boredom, thats not pleasent for the kid. You don't buy a happy childhood, it has to come from within. I am convinced happiness come from accomplishments and self satisfaction.
Child Labor laws are to protect kids from factorys and mines, and I don't think they should apply to kids with paper routes, cutting grass or anything THEY want to do to earn money that does not have hazards. We should not stifle ambition.
Minimum Wage protects the non-performers much as the union does. The problem with minimum wage is that it is a drain on the employer to pay the deadbeat more than what he is worth and the guy doing a good job is paying the price because the budget doesn't allow him/her a raise for his worth. This is a point that could be argued from now on, but if you have a company that will not pay their employees a FAIR wage they have a big turnover and finally go belly up. If you think about it we don't need those kind of companys anyway, besides another will take their place.
We would like to see every individual paid at least so much yet some will not earn what they get.
Then on the other hand you got employers that just don't want to give even their good employees a decent salery. Big brother steps in and we have more government. Big brother is the bleeding heart, non productive dead beat with the loud voice in Washington crying out for reforms that protect his worthless soul mates. I believe in FREE enterprise if the employer don't think you're worth much, maybe you aint. Also you have the freedom and option to say, stuff it you tight wad. This business of big brother looking out for our welfare is taking away some of the initiative and backbone we should have, its just another form of government dependancy. IT SHOULD NOT BE A CRIME TO PAY SOMEONE A QUARTER FOR A QUARTERS WORTH OF WORK. You never hear of a worker getting fined for not producing but we do not have that,it would be a form of slavery. Is not the employer entitled to the same rights. This is socialist war on the employers and between the haves and have nots brought on by the non productive squeeky wheels, media and the beltway of Washington. Which is picked up as fact by both liberals and conservatives in the normal devisive manner.
I am not offended by all this crap, its kind of like watching a bad movie with a worse ending.
In the mean time as a spectator, since I can't play for lack of funds, I just kabitz and bitch a lot. |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 10:39:34
|
Newt, your post this morning is one of the nicest and yet most poignant I've read in a long time.
My parents were of your 'generation' maybe even another 1/2 before that, and I can totally with heart felt memories relate and agree with your thoughts on parenting.
Your first sentence is so true, and yet so unfortunate. I really dislike seeing the "yoot" of today carry themselves around as useless bags of human waste encased in a skin. It is a real joy to encounter a minority element of this 'generational group' who so vibrantly exhibit dreams, ambitions, and the strengths and beliefs to try and reach their goals.
It is a fault of mine to dislike the kids who bear the negative image I have portrayed. It is not their fault, it is clearly the fault of their parents; as you have also stated.
At times, trying to be less judgemental, I tend to think that it is really the fault of society and the demands put on adults, that causes them to ignore their children by flooding them with "mindless games and toys"; that stymies their personal development. But then, who creates societal trends? Unfortunately, it is the very people who in turn ignore their children and avoid meaningful participation with them.
The issues you raise about minimum wages or any wage versus its value received, is a concept that enters our profession from several portals; and amplifies itself when the issue of the "have and have nots" rises through the economic platform of "supply and demand". |
|
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 13:05:42
|
Newt, Clayton and everyone, I understand and take no offense at the use of the phrase "haves and have nots".
But the future will more appropriately divide our society as well as the larger world into two newer groups: 'the KNOWS versus the KNOW NOTS'.
That vast educational, knowledge and technological chasm may have potentially larger consequences than two worlds separated by material division.
Computers, wireless, evolving technology, the Internet's continuing growth into every corner of the world, make this whole planet even smaller and more village like on a day to day basis.
Never forget, that at present, only 1 in 70 people around the world have familiarity with and direct access to a personal computer; which is pretty amazing for us to imagine given our large reliance on them in every avenue of our lives.
Now that's another discussion but one worth having, if only to understand and try to predict how it will change our lives, work, society and culture............ |
Edited by - JimF on 12/10/2002 13:14:34 |
|
|
|
Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 15:35:47
|
I take no offense at the phrase "knows vs know nots." For thousands of years the entire world has evolved with this as a fact. Five hundred years ago less than 1 in 2500 could even write in some countries. This lack of knowledge and wealth is the basis of manifest destiny. I think it will have little effect on our lives, work, society and culture. JimF I am a little alarmed when you use the "village like" phrase, I sure hope you are not attempting to inject the "it takes a village" attitude. Answer, but I will be unavailable, I just received a call and will be on the road within an hour. Above submitted IMHO.
|
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 15:57:57
|
That certainly is the more appropriate crack on the landscape that is picture our lives, both personal and corporate; the "haves and have nots" will only be the abacus of the new "knows and know nots".
Evidence of that is all around us, including throughout the insurance claims industry and the cat niche of it.
|
|
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 21:08:29
|
Justin, Puh-leeze!
You don't really want to be known as the 'Village' Idiot do you? |
Edited by - JimF on 12/10/2002 22:56:08 |
|
|
|
Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 11:29:31
|
Jim and CC, You just rung my bell, our education system is a farce. Most kids today are not taught except thru handouts. You folks that don't want to believe this look at your kids work, not home work. The handouts would be fine for homework, however this is not the case. I have seen as many as six handouts in one day.
Classes are smaller, better funded and we still have a sub-standard system of education. By this I mean what we expect. Kids can't read, work simple arithmatic with a pencil, geography, history or any of the basic skills in order to comprehend the more technical aspects of what they will face later on. You got to give the kids all the credit for teaching themselves, most don't and fall through the cracks.
I have two high school kids that come over every day for help and study, I have a computer set up in my office which I built on the other side of my carport. Its theirs to use, with a printer and copier. I have two out there so this is a dedicated system to help them. They have a system at home but mama plays a lot of solitary. I also think they get distracted at home. I should not be so judgemental, but something is amiss.
I go through their work AND their home work, also I ask lots of questions about what they talk about in class, what they want to go after. The sister is the oldest and she has decided to enter the medical field. The brother is undecided and probably be that way til he turns fourty, I have him thinking but thats all. He has brought his failing grades up through his on initiative, so thats some progress. This is two success stories I hope. It happened, not through any program but because I have this desire to see kids overcome the obsticles of todays society.
I always thought a good teacher could teach under a shade tree, a bad teacher couldn't teach in the Taj Mahal. In the past we never heard anything about school budget, today thats all you hear from our educators, by the way this is not comming from educators. Its comming from the staff of the system which consumes 75% of the budget. This is reversed from what it use to be. In times past only 25% was used for overhead. The teacher lobby, tenure, teacher union AEA have contributed to the failed system and throwing money at it won't fix it.
The kids many times are more computer literate than the teachers, they are not keeping pace with the advance in technology. The kids are being hampered by the teachers not teaching basics.
Lets face it, most kids must be taught how to learn first and foremost.
My first two years of school, which was the second and third grade were the foundation which I built on. My third day I was moved to the third grade and put back to the second because Mrs Walker thought I was too immature, bless her for that. I also remember I was a happy camper when she did it. My first five teachers in the first and second grade were all outstanding, they knew me and got into my soul. I didn't have the time or inclination to get into trouble, my whole being was taxed with learning. This is not blowing my horn but that of the wonderful teachers I had in my six years total education till I reached the age of twenty one. After that I got my high scool diploma, attended six years of college courses, all of which were in the more technical and scientific fields. English was not one of my prioritys as you can tell, and I have vowed to correct that. Yet there is so little time. In this life we can only shed light on it by learning something new, and that my friends is called walking in the light.
Jim, You bring up a most valid point in how will the explosion of world knowledge affect our culture. Its already here, we see the effect everyday in our morality. That is not just the average people. but the intelectuals, the powerful people and politicians. Morality has to come from the home and the teachers. They have failed, even some of the clergy are missing the mark.
What does morality have to do with knowledge? It is something that needs to be explored, because I think it had a lot to do with the downfall of both Greek and Roman Empires.
A question we have is why does imorality and knowledge always seem to go hand in hand. Surely we don't have be stupid to be moral, thats not to say all intelligent people are immoral.
I rememeber a discussion I got into this during the 60's and my in put was you cannot educate all the people, some are dangerous with an education, but who can decide where the danger lies.
Some folks are harmfull to society with an education, that is our delima.
But it is real,example being all the sixty's were about getting everyone educated, as a result we have lots of the schools being run by the product of that era. Much of that prouduct should be pulled from the shelf. I imagine lots of you guys are a product of that era and can vouch for what I am saying, you know what went on and you lived among them. Some of you were fortunate to go to some of the more moderate schools. I don't like to argue this subject one way or the other because this has so many unknowns. I do know some one has to dig the ditches, that don't take a doctorate.
|
|
|
|
JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 14:24:04
|
Newt, if you will read and check around a little on this site, you will see as many spelling and grammatical errors from adults, as you might find in any 8th grade in America, so ignorance and illiteracy are not the exclusive province of our young people.
Look no further than around you to compare those with the most minimal adjusting educations, to those who aspire to excel with every mode of education and training they can avail themselves of in furtherance of knowledge and professionalism.
From your description of your mentoring the two neighbohood children (for which you are to be highly commended) it would seem you are taking the village approach to helping rear a child (which I also think is commendable).
While I would not disagree with you regarding problems within our educational system, I would commend for your consideration the following:
Each year, the USA Today newspaper has an annual feature which shows photographs and highlights the outstanding Seniors in American High Schools. These exemplarary kids are nominated for this honor and a short biography of each is posted within the two page feature.
What amazes me in observing and reading this feature each year, are the large and statistically disproportionate number of Asian, Indian, Hispanic and African-American children (from American high schools) who have graduated as Valedictorian, and been accepted at the Harvards, Yales, Stanfords, Dukes, and have won full scholarships. And when you read their extracurricular activities, you find they have done real research in local medical schools, and university physics labs, and major college chemistry labs; while carrying the highest grades, most have anywhere from 10 to 20 or even 25 'major' worthwhile extracurricular activities to their credit; with many of them also working part-time to help support their families.
If these 'disadvantaged kids' can do it, why can't every kid do the same or at least comparably per se?
Why do we keep making institutional excuses and apologies, when those making excuses are sometimes the only real viable excuse for their own failure and illiteracy?
Yes, the educational system may have problems. But these kids of foreign descent, who may have had the earlier obstacle of having to also learn English as a second language, have not only come out of these same public schools you are talking about, but they have actually flourished.
The ones who WANT an education always find a way. And the parents complaining about the educational system, generally are the ones who are not providing the support, encouragement, discpline and initiative at home.
Someone please help me with this. I just don't get it!
|
Edited by - JimF on 12/11/2002 23:28:30 |
|
|
|
olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 17:03:04
|
| Those who have had it handed to us would rather complain about the outsiders stealing our heritage then go out and work for it. One last thought, I believe there are just as many kids who drop out and fail as there were 50 years ago. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Partisan Politics
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
