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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:12:26
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quote:
Originally posted by KileAnderson
If you think about it, all the good sports have come from either the US or Brittain.
Kile, overnight, your comment above kept coming back to me as perhaps one of the most outrageously misinformed ethnocentric comments I have ever seen or read anywhere.
And if you don't know and understand the meaning of the word ethnocentric, then run, not walk, to your closest dictionary. Perhaps no other word more appropriately expresses why America and Americans are so despised around the globe.
Do you forget that sports were involved in the Roman Empire or that Greece initiated the Olympics? Or that relay races were a staple of Mesopotamian society? How many of those Olympic sports do you think America and Britain 'invented'? Luge? Discus? Marathon? Pole vault? Javelin?
Do you fail to remember that the Swiss and Austrians and Scandanavians have been skiing on snow for centuries before this country was even founded?
Even such sports as stoning sinners, feeding Christians to the Lions, blood letting, leeching, and dunking those with differing opionions were neither of American or British origin.
The greatest sport of all, sex, was not invented nor perfected by Americans or Brits, but rather by the French and Asians!
Now perhaps if you include Monopoly or professional wrestling (TV variety), stock car racing (but not rally), you might be on to something. And let's give the Brits credit where credit is due, they did invent ping pong.
Ill informed or misinformed statements with such overt ethnocentric bias go a long way to painting Americans as 'ugly' and making 'us' the world's enemy as well as target.
Having had the great fortune to have traveled in 45 countries as well as to spend significant time abroad, I have witnessed first hand both the actions of Americans which make us despised as well as the reactions from those who would enjoy nothing more than seeing us put in what they consider to be our proper place.
I am appropriately reminded of Mark Twain's quote: "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow mindedness"
Even if you can't afford to travel the world, you can travel to the nearest book store or library to learn more about other cultures and the values they hold dear and cherish every bit as much as we do ours.
There is a big wide wonderful world out there which does not necessarily share our views, and from time to time, we all need to not only be remninded of that, but to open our eyes to learning and understanding why!
Mesopotamia (now Iraq), and the Tigris and Euphrates Valley, is one of the oldest cultures in the rich history of forging civilizations and in fact, is the very cradle of civilization. Their peoples have provided many many gifts of creativity, invention, arts and culture to our modern world and our human development.
I don't mean this is a personal attack on you Kile, but rather the constructive suggestion that you might consider opening your eyes to the views of others, if only to an understanding of why they might hold those views. |
Edited by - JimF on 03/18/2003 10:05:36 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:39:49
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Please don't play PC games with what I said and try to make me out to be some sort of biggot.
Perhaps I should have been more specific. I mean the great spectator sports of our time. Football, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer (grudgingly). We are a sports obsessed society.
NASCAR is not a sport. It's a way to keep the rednecks busy on Sunday so they don't do anything stupid. That is other than watch NASCAR.
My point was simply, isn't it an interesting cultural difference that when our President says things like "game over" or "lay your cards down" we don't find it all that unusual yet the French are offended that Bush is comparing a possible war to a game. I think that we don't look at war as a metaphor for a game, but the other way around, we look at games as a metaphor for war. That's why people where the colors of their favorite teams, it's tribal. You have soccer hooligans in England, you have riots here in the states whenever a team wins a national title.
I was simply trying to point out that there is a distinctive cultural difference between the Anglo-Americans and the French. Perhaps that is also why they are so much more into diplomacy. We are not a diplomatic nation. We never have been. We've tried to be, but we are more a nation of actions rather than words. France on the other hand would much rather talk about things until everyone gets bored and goes home. We'd rather slug it out and get it over with so we can move on. I think it's telling that most of the great treaties have been signed in France, the many Versailles treaties, the Paris peace accords.
But rest assured, Jim, I know that other countries do have sports. Oh, and I do know what ethnocentric means. And yes, I am very ethnocentric. I believe our society and culture are superior to those of other countries and I don't care what other countries think about us. Call me an ugly American if you will, I'll wear the name proudly. We are the greatest country the Earth has ever seen. It sure is funny how all those countries that hate Americans, sure do love McDonalds, Disney World, and our loans from the IMF. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 03/18/2003 09:43:27 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:48:59
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Kile, your own nonchalant admission of your ethnocenticity and pride in it, would by definition of the words involved, paint you as being a bigot (by definition).
You said it. Not me.
If the shoe fits, wear it! |
Edited by - JimF on 03/18/2003 09:52:04 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:53:01
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| So, taking pride in you homeland and having the self confidence to say that you believe your country and culture to be the best is bigotry, very intersting. I guess to be enlightened you have to be a self-hating apeaser. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:55:17
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A bigot cannot be a bigot without also being ethnocentric and an ethnocentric cannot be an ethnocentric without also being a bigot.
Go read and review a better dictionary. It is clear to me you do not understand either word. |
Edited by - JimF on 03/18/2003 09:55:58 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 09:59:49
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Kile, it is statements such as those found in the last paragraph, of your 09.39 post; that cause alienation of cultures and societies well past your front door, in a world that keeps getting smaller.
Yes, your country is great, in many ways, and that 'greatness' is measured in different ways; by your fellow countrymen and by people from other nations.
However, there are other countries which are also great, in many ways, and their 'greatness' is measured in different ways; by their fellow countrymen and by people from other nations. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:08:51
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That's fine, Clayton, let the people of those other great countries be proud of their countries. I have no problem with that. I wouldn't have much respect for them if they didn't. I'm tired of this PC brainwasing that has happened in the last 20 years that tries to make people believe that it's bad to be proud of your country and believe that we are the best in the world. I don't see people risking their lives in leaky boats to get to France. People risk their lives everyday to get to the good'ol US of A.
I'm sorry if I don't buy into the multi-cultural movement that draws a moral equivalence between all cultures. Some cultures really are better than others. There is good and bad, right and wrong in the world. You can't tell me that a culture that stones women in the streets for being accused of adultery and won't even let them drive cars is as good as western culture. It simply isn't true. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:12:04
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Kile, you just never cease to amaze me in how some ideas and concepts always just go right over your head!
And then, you wonder why America and Americans are so hated around the world?
Go take a look in the mirror for the answer. |
Edited by - JimF on 03/18/2003 10:14:03 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:15:51
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| Exactly what concept went over my head Jim? Americans are hated around the world because people are jealous. They resent us for our success and achievements. It's the same reason that poor people resent rich people simply for being succesful. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 03/18/2003 10:19:38 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:17:44
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Go take a long walk away from your computer Kile, and see if the answer to your question doesn't come with time.
We can share new ideas and concepts with you Kile, but we can't understand them for you. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:21:35
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| You haven't shared any new ideas or concepts. I completely understand what you said. Just because I don't buy into it doesn't mean I don't understand it. It seems to me that you are being a bit ethnocentric yourself. You act as if your way of looking at it is the only way and if I don't see it the way you do I don't understand what you're saying. I understand exactly what you're saying. I just don't agree with it. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 03/18/2003 10:21:53 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:23:16
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Thus that allows you to remain a bigot with pride then doesn't it Kile?
Again, what Clayton and I have said and are saying, continues to go right over your head even as much as it eludes you. |
Edited by - JimF on 03/18/2003 10:24:28 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 10:39:57
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I'm really offended that you paint my patriotism and love of country as something other than pure and good. There is no other country on Earth that I'd rather live in and I don't see that as a bad thing. I think my country is the greatest one in the world. I don't think that is a bad thing either. I fail to see how you can see that as bad.
But lets get back to what started this all. Was the shock at Bush's games and sports analogies by France a truly cultural difference, was it linguitic or were the French simply being coy and playing a "game" themselves? |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 17:46:01
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It's murder, it's murder pure and simple and this stupidity may be the end of the civilized world.
What a "moron" comparing killing innocent, unwitting people, humans, to playing ball games. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2003 : 18:35:09
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| Chuck just because Saddam has killed or murdered if you prefer about 2 million people why do you think the end of the civilized world may be near. He for sure was not the first to kill innocent and unwitting people and surely will not be the last. Clearly this killing of babies to old men is a game to him that he enjoys or else he would not have spent a lifetime doing it. |
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Iraq
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