| Author |
 Topic  |
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
 Posted - 09/22/2003 : 22:01:00
|
Hi Donna, me again. Your bulletin board post of the 19th said, "I am a new female adjuster going to Norfolk for storm duty ....", but I note you now say that your career is not within adjusting. I am curious, only because of the good quality of your perspective on the issue of vendors.
I respectfully don't agree with your opinion that if vendors were eliminated that the 'take home' fees would be the same or less. I posted an opinion in another thread earlier today that tried to explain why I thought the adjuster would benefit from a larger share of the gross fee, if ever a not-for-profit adjuster organization was to assume as one of its roles that of a project manager in lieu of the traditional cat vendor.
I fully agree with your comments related to rating - be it adjuster, vendor, or carrier - within whatever template was used to truly measure performance results.
It would be a very interesting project and end analysis to do a cross rating of adjusters and vendors for the present storm.
Would you care to elaborate any further on a proposed framework for a template or analysis method?
** By edit, I must say I look silly. Donna posted some great comments regarding the issue of vendors. I prepared the above thoughts in response to her original post, only now to see that she removed her entire original post on the issue. Donna, I think you had something of considerable value to add to this ongoing discussion; personally I'm sorry you chose to remove those thoughts. |
Edited by - CCarr on 09/22/2003 22:05:22 |
 |
|
|
dswink
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 22:13:43
|
Actually it was her better half. Donna is on assignment.
I got carried away when i was looking at currents posts for her, since she does not have access up yet. I removed it because I felt since i am not an adjuster, it might not be appropriate. Since you requested here it again
I feel your pain! I truly do.
TPA's will always be a factor. My career is not with adjusting but very similar. I can say this with a very straight face. If you eliminate the TPAs. your fees that you bring home would still be the same or less. The carrier would have all the costs associated with administrating these losses. In addition, they would have to staff year round the admin folks to manage 50-100 adjusters. Whereas by going through TPAs those expenses are direct expenses assigned to the each storm.
When you talked about rating, I suppose you really meant measuring results. Does the adjuster provide a return on investment? Does the TPA provide the proper management and resources?
When you scroll through the rate the employer, there really are very few posts. and really no way to measure or report results. Maybe during this storm someone could develop a survey that all adjusters could submit, then someone could compile the results for posting. NOW the big BUT. If you rate the employer, you have to stand up and let yourself have your job performance appraised and reported from the TPA.
Only after you have measurable results can progress can be made. |
Edited by - dswink on 09/22/2003 22:21:40 |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 22:28:14
|
Well that is okay "better half".
Obviously you have collateral experience with this contractor / subcontractor (TPA vendor / adjuster) relationship thing, from another industry.
Can I twist your arm, in Donna's absence, to elaborate further? |
|
|
|
swink_d
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 22:41:55
|
sure,
this is my username. i created this to eliminate confusion |
|
|
|
swink_d
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 23:06:19
|
In question to Marketing, first thing you have to figure out what it is your marketing? when you are marketing yourselves to TPAs:
1) what is it you are selling?
2) what makes it a win for the TPA? or carrier
|
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2003 : 06:38:31
|
Yesterday, 09/22, Scott made a post at 01.19 that related to our organizational discussions.
That noted post and the 14 that followed it yesterday, all have value to our organizational discussions.
I have asked Roy to transfer (if he feels it is appropriate) those 15 posts to the "Concept ...." thread within the organizational topic area.
The more we can keep any thoughts made on that topic together, will be of benefit in the long run, to maintain a continuity of our thoughts. |
|
|
|
Admin
547 Posts |
|
|
swink_d
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2003 : 07:43:33
|
I thought about this last night,and read a whole bunch of the discussions here, and I was surprised that so many Adjusters did not understand the relationship or resposibilities between the TPA's and Adjusters. I think everyone has noticed that more and more carriers are going to staff adjusters to handle their needs? why is that? my guess would be that the carriers are not experiencing a WIN by outsourcing the adjusting. Again you have to ask what the carriers want, I suppose they want clean, closed files ontime for the set rate, and are not getting them. I would imagine that it costs the carrier almost the same to fix a file as it does to adjust it the first time, and ultimately dissatifies an insured.
I don't know for sure, but i would imagine that some(not all) that stay on standby, are there for a reason, probaly they have not shown the TPA and ultimately the Carrier a return on investment. Hence so many new people able to penetrate the Industry.
Any concept of organization or alliance or setting standards ultimately will have to be based on the committment and ability to provide the highest standards of service to the carrier through the TPA. because ultimately and realistically you cannot make any headway at all on any of your issues until you can show to the carriers that outsourcing through the TPAS is beneficial (Cost, Service, Quality).
|
|
|
|
scottposton
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2003 : 18:13:19
|
Swink, Not trying to sound discouraging here but how long do you think a carrier is going to keep a group of staff adjusters on the payroll with little or no work? As for the "return on investment" I think that question answers itself. You only pay for the services when you need them. IA allow the carriers the flexibility to keep the staff low and when the losses are more than staff can handle then certainly we provide a valuable alternative. As for as a standard is concerned I think that your work speaks for itself. You do good work and you stay busy. Might someone slip in on a team who doesn't have the knowledge or expertise to provide a quality work product? Absolubtly! But it wont take long working a claim or group of claims before that inept and inferior product surfaces. And I wager that it will probably be his last assignment from the carrier or the TPA.
In this facet I think the TPAs are probably helpful. They can weed out the unskilled from the skilled. But does a professional adjuster really need a TPA collecting 25% to 40% of the fee just for this service? Thats a question we all should decide. Right now the market is sending us in the TPA direction. I think the people that are professionals will soon wake up and realize that that strong a percentage is too much for what the TPA provides.
Now if you want to look at it from the standpoint of the carrier utilizing TPAs my opinion is that it is simply less work for them while paying the same fees as they would pay the IA directly. Largest benefit is that the Carrier only has one person to deal with instead of 30, 40 or 50 IAs. The carrier doesn't have to manage that workforce and when problems arise they have one person to call. This is where I think an organization would be extremely helpful.
First it could provide a forum, training and other assistance to train people entering this field how to do what the carriers want and how to do it right.
Second it could serve to market the professionals out here that believe in providing a quality work product at a quality price and maybe also a centralized billing, marketing and management system making everyone involved in the process happy.
Just my thoughts for whats its worth. |
|
|
|
swink_d
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2003 : 18:43:27
|
I do not know if 25-40% is good or not. I have not seen any P&L's from TPAs, How much would the association charge for overhead? It would have to have phones, property, networks, staff,etc.
You have made the point exactly as i should have, Yes TPAs are here to stay and NO Carriers do not want to keep staff adjusters on during lean times. But like evry employer they have obligations and huge expenses in laying off employees, I cannot think of any business that would rather NOT use a 3rd party, Look at Proctor and Gamble, Syngenta, and a whos who of the fortune 1000 Payroll, Purchasing, Mailroom, Distribution, and even now onsite manufacturing are being outsourced to Contractors.
To be direct, an organizations biggest advantage when running effeciently with all the agreed upon standars will be able make or break TPAs not the other way around.
Can you imagine owing one of this TPAs and the organization calls and says sir "____"association has decided not recognize you as one of the TPAs that meet our standards for professionalism, and will no longer refer our Adjusters to you. How long will it take for that person to modify his business plan? BUT your organization must contain only Highly professional Adjusters, whether it is a newbie that can run 3 claims a day BUT is accurate to the guy that has been banging away for years that is accurate.
Your best hope is for the carriers to feel the impact and say to that TPA "Use _______associates, we never have to reopen those guys claims"
Scott you are an excellent poster!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
scottposton
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2003 : 18:52:31
|
Thanks for the compliment but my point is how many of us work for two, three or even more TPAs? The cost is repetitive for each of us when we do that. My problem isn't with the TPAs at all. I just think they have evolved as a marketing and management tool which we could do ourselves through the use of a professional organization. Believe me the carriers that I do work directly for look for two things and two things only. Quality and Cost. As long as I give them the quality that they expect for a price that they can not afford to keep a staffer on for then I am secure. Those two things are both in my control each and every time I get an assignment from them. Its just economics and good business. Nothing more or nothing less. Don't think for a second that should a professioanl organization with solid guidelines and members offer to do the same for them that the TPAs are doing that they wont hesitate for a second to go that route.
They are a business and wont nothing more than my business, your business or anyone elses business. Satisified clients that keep purchasing their product. |
|
|
|
fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2003 : 00:16:52
|
Regarding the note about keeping staff adjusters on in lean times... as a staff cat adjuster for Allstate for the past 4 years, I have never not had work to do. Now, we can't keep 600 adjusters on staff for cat work, but we can keep 300. Hurricanes are not the only cats. There are hail storms, tornadoes, fires, the Santa Anas that keep us busy year round. An even though there is a large cat named Isabel right now, there are still hail storms and water back up claims to work in IL.
Independent adjuster will not go away, but don't expect staff cat adjusters, or call centers for that matter, to go away either. I wouldn't have my job if an IA could do it cheaper and better.
Swink D made a very good point... if the vendors can't give the carriers what they need, the carriers will look elsewhere. That is why there are staff cat teams at least a few hundred strong. Though I am not high into management to say this with any certainty, I bet we could add 100 more adjusters to the staff cat payroll and still keep them all busy year round.
That being said... I am not about choosing sides. The carriers need both of us to fulfill it's obligation to the insured.
Jennifer
|
|
|
|
khromas
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2003 : 15:21:58
|
As a new member of this organization, I have read many of the postings with interest. Having recently left Allstate after 6 1/2 years as a property adjuster wearing several different hats, it is enlightening to see the "other" side of the adjuster / carrier relationship.
In regards to the issues surounding the move by many carriers to more staffed CAT positions, it is driven by cost & control. At one point a few years ago in the South Texas Property MCO, over 40% of the DAILY claims were being sent out to independents! The paperwork and supervision of those claims were consolidated into a single office unit with 6 people in it! At the time, I had been with Allstate less than 2 years and I was the second most senior member of the unit. Only the manager had a longer tenure! She eventually became so stressed with the position that she tried to get the MCM to promote me to the 'hotseat'! As staffing increased, they eventually disolved that unit and eliminated the usage of the independents on daily claims. Now they have gone to the National Cat Team approach and cut back on usage of independents substantially. Comes back to COST & CONTROL (with the emphasis on the CONTROL!) |
Kevin Hromas |
|
|
|
swink_d
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2003 : 15:26:21
|
Kevin
what in your opinion can be done to swing the pendelum back the other way? |
|
|
|
ddinspects
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2003 : 20:21:19
|
In my opinion, Kevin H. has (recently) touched on the I/A's dilemma, both for now and the future. I was in Company mid-level management for 10-15 years (of my 30 + years.) Regardless of I/A performance, inflation, technological improvements/expenses and without Company remorse- my annual L.A.E. budget for a seven-state region of Independents, included accountabilities on me as a goal to reduce the I/A's fees through "competition" in the market, i.e. TPA. Meeting these goals put a bonus in each upper level manager/V.P. pockets. This was regardless of performance and/or Cats. My other goals included constantly searching for the I/A who would accept the terms, to receive more assignments. I have not seen any change in Company policy in this regard. That's free enterprise, albeit makes for an ill longterm loss ratio; And those V.P. always seem to get another position.
Regardless for whom you work, one always has to do the math, whether daily or Cat-work: gross paid, less expenses, equals bottom line. Is the bottom line, your bottom line. Unfortunately and until Catters form a Union, the majority are in a position to work for less, each year. Of course a Union will never work, Independents are independent by nature.
How many Companies are managed at the top by Claims Professionals, as opposed to underwriters ? There's a Root issue for the Adjuster's future.
If CNN is paying old adjusters, please let me know - Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Feedback on Fee Schedule Please
Forum Locked
