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TedPasan
82 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2003 : 18:03:44
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I have noticed that there are several new or newer adjusters posting on CADO looking to go out for their first storm assignment/first hurricane.
In keeping with the adage of "Know Before You Go" I thought it might be helpful to them and others if we started a thread to share some of the questions an adjuster needs to ask vendors when the vendors call to put them on stand-by lists.
Obviously, it would seem the usual question would include:
What is the fee schedule?
What percentage do you pay to the adjuster?
How often do you pay adjusters?
How do you deal with "holdbacks"? And what %?
Do you provide Worker's Comp coverage?
Do you provide E&O?
How many claims do you guarantee adjusters?
Who are the carriers you service?
How much paperwork is required per claim?
Which estimating program(s) do you use/require?
Do you "zone" your claims assigned? If yes, how?
I am sure that others have other suggestions and questions which they ask and deem worthy of knowing before committing to a vendor. Let's hear your ideas. |
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LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 06:06:57
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| If working for an I/A Co. another good question is whether the adjuster's pay is guaranteed by the I/A Companies. Some adjusting companies do not pay the adjuster unless or until they are paid by their client carriers. Be careful with that. |
Larry Wright |
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Catmannn
42 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 06:29:57
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Ted and Larry,
I agree that it would be nice to know every thing about the storm you are about to go on. Most venders don't know or care how many claims you might get and very few will guarantee you said amount.
My advised, for what it is worth is for the cubs to follow the bears.
Houtz |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 07:08:21
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As Ted says, here is where the 'dead' horse gets beat again.
Boys and Girls, it is these very issues and concerns that our upcoming trade organization will help you deal with. What's in it all for you? How about a little peace of mind knowing that as a CADO member you have an organization already working to keep an even playing field with realistic fee schedules and a realistic guaranteed file load waiting in your basket and maybe even realistic discounts on decent housing. Not to mention all the other professional recognition benefits to be added.
It is NOW that the need for the CADO Professional Guild is greatest because NOW is when each of us is the most vulnerable and subject to the usual bend over & get hosed by the carriers and vendors.
(The preceding announcement has been brought to from the your friendly Minister of Propaganda.) |
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TedPasan
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 07:20:51
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Nice thoughts Ghost, but in your pipe dreaming, do you think you can get all of that done before Ms Izzy makes her grand appearance and get the information needed in the hands of adjusters by then? (You're going to have to hurry if you're getting back a final report from your guild OSHA Committee and have you appointed the Fee Schedule and Pension/Benefits Committee yet?)
If not, why don't you share your list of questions and thoughts of how adjusters can know before they go out here in the real world.
I'm looking for a place for you to bury that damn dead horse before the flesh rots off and the smell drives us all into the wilderness. Maybe Clayton could spare a few square feet in his Canadian backyard for an equine heaven?
Your trade association is about the last thing on folk's minds around here this week and next, and most adjusters are trying to just get honest answers to important questions while dreaming of what might be the biggest and best thing to hit in YEARS.
Save your trade thingy dream until after everyone comes back from Izzy all fat and happy and then the idea might gain some traction.
Ghost, want me to make you a motel reservation in Red Bank? |
Edited by - TedPasan on 09/14/2003 07:31:21 |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 07:47:23
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Well, the above list of questions is really good. For the trainees out here, the tomes from Chuck Deaton or the myriad of advice from these pages of CADO over the years provide a wealth of information on the important aspects of storm trooping.
The one fundamental aspect, the single most important act one must do... is to establish your own solid base of operations. Finding the right place to live and work from that is close to the storm office yet not too far from your claim area is vital. You must have a secure base from which to operate. It is the little things in life that are the most important, things like an air conditioned room, laundry facilities, a close by supermarket, (or even better, a Super Walmart), some place for office supplies, or an auto parts store or even a decent garage when your windshield wiper motor craps out.
The daily adventures in the field can all be coped with much easier if you have that comfortable base from which to return each night.
And...with your CADO Professional Guild card, discount rates from participating housing providers is yet another reason for your valued membership.
(Whonk! Back to you, Ted.) |
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TedPasan
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 07:54:04
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Hmmmmm. Let's see. Professional Guild Association. That has a nice ring to it. How about PGA for short?
So that's what they mean by the PGA Tour?
And isn't the PGA for 'pros' only?
(Whack.....back to you Ghost)
PS: Red Bank said they are comping us 2 rooms down in Atlantic City for this storm Ghost. |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 07:56:26
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| Cat remains free for the asking, email me. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 08:25:58
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| Anyone going to take a rookie to trian this time? It might be something to consider. If the rookie agreed to work for you reasonable. Something for all you rookies to consider as well as us old timers. A cat 4 or Xat 5 Hurricane is not for the faint of heart. |
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TedPasan
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 09:00:46
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| Alan do you or others have any ideas as to what a reasonable compensation might be for an experienced adjuster to pay a rookie taken under wing? I'm sure this topic might be of interest to some if not many. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 09:13:48
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I'm not willing to pay much. I almost think we should charge tuition or get a percentage of their first yrs wages, (once they get out on their own). I trained a guy once. He made 150k his first yr out on his own. How much is it worth 2 learn a trade? We all need to discuss this. Some vendors are going to place rookies out in the field. Most will sink and we will have to clean up the mess. Ie.. Andrew and Northridge.
You gotta pay, (your dues), to play. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 11:02:57
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I have a question, what is the pay for cleanup? Is it Burger-doodle wages? I hear a lot of comments about it and I also hate to clean up anothers mess, no one seems to like it.
I am not clear on it so I would appreciate a comment or two.
At one time I would have been willing to work for nothing and pay my own expenses. After being turned down, and I can understand the reasons, I tend to agree with Alan J. and see his point. Besides you oldtimers would be training a competitor.
I have studied hard for about 18 months, I am not on any list that I know of.
Looks now like I may have wasted my time and money. With the "good ole boy" system like it is and the forming of a CADO "Government" with a proposed pecking order, by some. A trade organization is great, where all members are just that, members. The suggestions by Ghostbuster is, and always has been having a voice in how you are treated as an "INDEPENDANT" adjuster. I think his vision has been an organization that has teeth or at least some tough gums. I don't believe in the group type self regulation, that boils down to the same "good ole boy system". You either sink or swim. None of you old timers used such a system comming up to get where you are, and no two of you are alike or do things the same way, not to say you don't use ideas from each other. I am not optimistic about an organization, because there are some that would try to remove the "independant" out of "independant adjuster".
Back on May the 27th, I predicted Izzy would hit Wilmington NC on the evening of 16 Sep. on the "Members Den". Now, I may have gotten off because the the ridge pushing down from New England and the Low Pressure followed by a High headed east toward the mid- Atlantic states. This is creating an unknown, a lot will depend on the speed which Izzy travels over the warm water and the shear effect the high will have. The charts may be correct and are about as accurate as my MOJO. I think Izzy is going to do what it wants to at this time.
GB you can put away that torch, I got a bad case of the mange and lost my tail feathers, I gotta stay out of the dog house.
I have the feeling a lot if new people will fall on hard times if they don't plan their finances on their first job. I would think the most important thing to find out is when and how to arrange that first pay check, and will it be enough. Of course you want to check those references, and by all means know where they are comming from. Not all adjusters view vendors in the same light. |
Edited by - Newt on 09/14/2003 11:14:21 |
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TedPasan
82 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 11:23:47
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Newt the short answer to your question on clean-up is that adjusters are either generally paid a day rate or else they take all or a portion of the fee which was charged to the underlying file which needed cleaning up.
If the clean-up involves a reopen due to a request for a supplemental payment, then the adjuster may be paid whatever additional billing the increase in the fee schedule might provide (as an example, the initial file might have been billed based on a closed payment amount of $49,999.00 with a resulting total gross fee of $750.00 whereas with the new supplemental payment of an additional $10,000.00 the total fee is now based on the schedule being for a loss between $50,000.00-$75,000.00 with a fee of $1,250.00. In both cases, assume the adjuster is paid 60% of the fee billing, the clean-up adjuster would be entitled to 60% of the new fee schedule difference of $500.00 or a net of $300.00 ($1,250 less previous bill of $750 times 60%).
Generally speaking as well, the adjusters staying for clean up are the more experienced adjusters with greater policy knowledge, as the claims which are reopening or haven't closed, may well ultimately be headed to court. Whenever any newer adjuster gets invited to have the opportunity to work clean-up, by all means take it, as you will learn more doing clean-up than you ever would taking an insurance class anywhere.
In short, clean-up is when you will meet every bastard claim file and every bastard insured.
Clean-up is generally interesting, always a challenge, sometimes fun, mostly more laid back, but the real reason most adjusters don't want to do it, is that generally speaking, the adjusters are not adequately compensated for their knowledge and the tedious work they have to do in cleaning up some real messes.
It's a great way for anyone to learn how NOT to handle and close claims files, by observing how some incredibly incompetent adjusters have so incredibly screwed up a claim file and angered a vendor, carrier, insured and perhaps as well, a state insurance commissioner's office.
Hope this helps. |
Edited by - TedPasan on 09/14/2003 11:32:35 |
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catmanager
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 12:06:18
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| Excellent info for newbies, Ted. I only want to add as well that despite the acknowledged lower compensation for cleaning up the mess, the vendors really learn who they can rely on, and the late reported claims that come in months later really do make a huge difference in your total gross for the storm. A lot of people, for whatever reasons, seem to want to leave to early, even though there is still volume coming in. I'm not staying you should stay for 1 or 2 claims a day, but these storms have a way of surprising some. You may not get any claims for awhile, and then you get a few, and in your mind the storm is over. I'm sure a few adjusters have been pleasantly surprised when the "trickle" of 25-50 claims a day spread out between 50 adjusters suddenly "jumps" when 45 guys go home. 5 a day for a long time never hurt anybody, IF you can stand to be on the road for A REALLY LONG time...... |
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pilot48
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 12:59:26
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I'll hire all the rookies out here, have obtained three strong contracts with paid retainers received..........you guys are receiving retainers aren't you?
You're not just showing up and trusting a total stranger that they'l pay you.......are you? |
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sentryclaims
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 14:19:04
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Just to Let the New Guys know how we train you and how you pay your dues with us.
1. We have one supervisor that trains you. He shows you first how to operate our estimating software.
2. He instructs you on how to make your contacts, map out your locations, conduct your inspections, write your estimates, and close your files.
3. He assigns you very few losses, not over 10 to start. When all those are finished and closed, you get a few more.
4. This supervisor goes out as a re-inspect trainee like what State Farm uses and helps the new guys do it right the first time.
5. He puts you with a Carrier that requires low paperwork to avoid to many problems.
We can’t answer all the questions yet we do give you the chance to learn. You know what TedPasan, I see you have got something bad to say on every subject to someone for some reason. Just a few questions I pose to you. How long have you been doing this? I have been doing this for 17 years solid. Who do you work for on a regular basis? Pilot? Crawford? That says a lot right there. Who gave you your shot? For me, it was the real Walter Pilot, God rest his soul. Gene Renfro, Bill Powers, Bud Trice, Bernie Cress, Carmen Brown. Ever heard of them? The REAL ADJUSTERS help and not hinder. The REAL ADJUSTERS look for ways to do good for one another and to try and help each other succeed. Not lie on an Internet sight and always have something to say. If you think you pissed me off, well that is ONE thing you are right about. I had the guts to go off by myself because I got tired of playing the game with the Vendors and so called Cat Adjusters like you and your other bud. I went off by myself to do it right and give people a chance to do well and succeed. What have you done for anyone? Oh yes I forgot, you sit on this sight and put your 2 cents worth in.
I rest my case.
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Please visit our site at http://www.sentryclaimservice.com |
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Know Before You Go - The Questions To Ask
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