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rr
USA
45 Posts |
 Posted - 01/27/2003 : 14:34:17
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Nothing else to do other than to watch Fox news
after football.
Just came out Canada after the report to the UN that they support waiting. I know several others including a lot of americans also agree.
I wonder why you guys?
Just want to know your area's thought's and why?
So many come across everyday to work in the US and yes including cat adjusters.
I do not want to get into to much but this bothers me why even our so called allies or not standing up with us.
rez
ps just something else to read I quess. please keep your comment's so real day to day folks can understand instead of taking up all day to look in the dictionary.
And I am sure I should have..
Rez again
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 15:03:15
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I've noticed a small handful of Canadians as registered viewers on CADO, but it seems I am the only Canuck 'guy' to have much to say here at this time; which I can assure you is under personal review.
"Why you guys"? I suggest it is no different here than any other democracy. I have no more say - yesterday, today, or tomorrow - on this issue than you do. Our next 'say' of any value, is at the time of the next election.
I'll absorb tonight and in tomorrows newpapers, why our government and their bureaucrats chose to support waiting; if in fact that is the spin.
Just what does any person crossing the border to work in the USA, have to do with our government apparently supporting a wait? I see Celine and Shania crossed the border last week to take part in the Super Bowl, of what consequence would their opinion be?
Ask those 'lot of americans' you mention, why they support waiting.
I personally don't support waiting, I am a 'hawk' when it comes to what I know of the issue, but I am ever so distant from the real issues, facts and consequences of such action; that the value of that comment is zero.
I didn't have to resort to the dictionary for any of this Rez, to comply with your request, and therefore hopefully my comments can be quickly passed by. |
Edited by - CCarr on 01/27/2003 15:15:23 |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 15:31:34
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Has anyone noticed that the war protest folks have signs that condem Bush, Powell, etc. and not one of them has one BAD WORD to say about Saddam? Kind of makes you wonder what their real objective could be.
As far as our neighbor to the north, they have a French Prime Minister, need I say more.
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 15:37:07
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That about sums it up Justin, and that his time has passed. He gave notice of his intent to retire about 4 months ago, with an effective date in Feb 2004 - a stubborn lame duck.
The next one by coronation before the next called election is an anglo Shipping magnate. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 16:10:16
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That is a good point Justin. I would also point out that Iraq has been in material breach of the cease fire that ended the Gulf War hostilities in 1991. He kicked the inspectors out, he keeps firing on our planes patroling the north and south no-fly zones, he refuses to allow his people to talk to inspectors without having henchmen in the room with them, it goes on and on.
Also, isn't it funny that the people that keep saying there is no proof that he has chemical weapons are the the same people who worry that Sadam will use WMD on our troops if we attack. Those same people say that there is no connection between Iraq and terrorism but Sadam's own son said that if Iraq is attacked they will make 9-11 look like a pic-nic, isn't that a threat of terrorism?
As a former US Army Infantryman, I would be the last one to be in favor of any unnecessary war. But I'm affraid our backs are against the wall on this one. We have an evil man with no conscience sitting right in the middle of the largest oil reserve on the planet. I don't think we need to take the chance that he will let the genie out of the bottle and as usual, Uncle Sam is the only one able and willing to do what needs to be done.
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 16:24:41
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| Oh, one more thing, Abu Nidahl, one of the worlds most wanted terrorists lived happily in Baghdad for years, until he was mysteriously shot to death in his own apartment some time last year. If that isn't a link to terrorism I don't know what is. |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 19:55:45
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| It is so easy to say blow them away. But as a member of the international community (I don't think the world is an American protectorate) we cannot do what we critize other for doing, invade a soverign nation. It may be the Bush abd the boys have enough evidence, they keep telling us they do (but unlike the rushamainics) I want proof. Many of us have heard comments about this gaurantying the US oil supply, that is not enough to invade another country. Is Sadam an evil man YES should be take him out LIKELY but sorry just because Bush says he wants to isn't good enough. This is the feed back from Canada and other countries. Let's rpove we have a reason to invade. As to the silly comment about 1 terrorist iving in Bagdad, if that's your justification then we should invade Florida,it was home to a number of terrorists for a few years. OK you rushimaniacs, stop the half witted comments and let's heard some real justification for your position. |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 20:32:50
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Olderthendirt, after reading your tripe for the last few years, I am sure NOTHING would convince you that this war is necessary. You just go on and keep your head in the sand. AND where were you when Clinton did his thing with Belgrade? You liberals are so transparent.
PS: And yes I listen to Rush Limbaugh every chance I get. He has helped me to understand the whacked out liberal socalist communist left brained idiots. Wow being a liberal name caller I bet you were really impressed with that.
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Edited by - Justin on 01/27/2003 21:03:43 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 20:33:22
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Well, Mark, I guess Sadam could slap you in the face with a big sack of anthrax while driving a scud launcher with a nuclear war head and you still wouldn't believe it. Hussein gave sanctuary to the one man, up until Bin Laden popped his ugly mug out of a cave, who was the most wanted terrorist mastermind on the planet. When his two sons-in-law defected to the west and spilled the beans about his weapons programs, Mr. Hussein told them all was forgiven, invited them to come back to their families in Iraq and promptly had them executed as soon as they stepped off the plane.
How about this, he signed an agreement not to fire on our warplanes as they enforced the no fly zones in the north and south of Iraq. He violates that agreement on a daily basis. Lets not forget that the inspectors found rockets designed to carry chemical weapons in an Iraqi warehouse. Rockets they were not supposed to have. Rockets they were supposed to declare in their 12000 page declaration of disarmament but failed to metion. Don't forget that inspectors found documents confirming Iraq's nuclear program does exist, something that the big three networks and the New York Times faild to report.
But to really lay it all out, the bottom line is Iraq was required to prove to the UN that it had destroyed all WMD...11 years ago...11 years ago and today Sadam is still playing his little rope-a-dope games. It is up to him to prove that he has totally disarmed and Chief UN weapons inspector, Hans Blix said today Iraq is not in compliance with any of the UN resolutions. Do you really think that he ever intends to comply? If you do I have some beach front property to sell you in Idaho.
Iraq is not a soveriegn nation, it is a defeated nation. A nation that bullys and intimidates it's neighbors. It invaded Kuwait. I was beaten back by the US and in order to save his own hide he agreed to abide by the cease fire and UN inspections. The US would simply be enforcing the UN resolutions that the international diplomats simply don't have the cajones to enforce. If everytime you were caught speeding the cop pulled you over and said if you do that again and I catch you, I'll tell you not to do that again. I'm sure you'd be very careful to keep it at 55 wouldn't you. Unfortunately the US is the only country on the planet that has the moral clarity to do what needs to be done. At least since we got rid of Slick Willy that is. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 21:45:48
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Hey all, I'm probably better off in here for awhile.
Rez, Justin, Kile, Mark & others, would you share something with me?
I watched the last 'political' thread go on and on, and quite enjoyed it; and sense this one will go on for awhile.
I would have to stop 10 or 20 people before I could muster up any kind of Canadian partisan discussion. There just doesn't seem to be the intensity on any issue. We all share relatively common economic and social issues that affect our own geography either directly or indirectly.
What creates your individual intensity for these partisan issues? Adding to my respect for your convictions, I note there is quite a range of age among the four of you.
You have the Democrats and the Republicans, we have the Conservatives (aka Alliance) and the Liberals, along with some silly fringe regional parties. I'm just impressed with the manner of your convictions and your willingness to discuss or state them. Just cann't seem to get that to happen up here with any regularity.
Maybe it's just because your line in the sand between your beliefs is deeper, due to your population numbers?
I think every now and then, that because we have never yet had a revolution, that our party lines in the sand may not be gouged as deep.
Anyway, I enjoy the banter, a good place to get a lot of partisan viewpoints, I do get a little uneasy at times with the strength you go at your viewpoints; but clearly sense that any of you would not hesitate to line up beside each other in a time of national need. |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 22:20:34
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Clayton, I can only speak for myself, but I think that COMMON SENSE is probably the guiding factor. The ability to analyze facts and apply your own principals to them, as strong as they may be, is of utmost importance. The reason you have feelings about this is I believe from reading your posts that you have strong convictions and moral terpitude. You have also probably developed an ability to weigh facts with your adjusters inbread common sense which brings you into the conversation.
Conservative types are very fact oriented and operate on information. The liberal mindset is based on feel good toughie feelie solutions. The liberals solution to homelessness is to buy the poor soul a new shopping cart. The conservative mindset is to help him/her get a job and be an asset to society. Liberals operate on envy, hate, divisiveness (sp), class warfare, race baiting, anything to keep society off balance. They feel that this helps them as they have all the answers for your problems. If you dont have any problems, they will create a few for you. Conservatives tell everyone, We trust you and your ability. Liberals tell them, you cannot succeed without us.
Like Mike Savage said, I think liberalism is as dangerous to our country as Al-Quada and terrorism. When you lie, cheat, and have no morals, it is hard to compete with you in national politics, that is what liberals have going for them.
Canada has a heavy French influence. What else can I say. With the exception of WW II, you folks have had the security blanket of the USA and may have become somewhat complacient when it comes to national defense. Canada also has a very heavy liberal, alabiet, socalistic mindset. ie: a country that was settled by fur traders, explorers, sportsmen, outdoors types, etc allowing itself to be stripped of your gun rights is a crying shame.
I visit Canada (BC) often and find to the contrary rugged individuals who are well educated, very vocal, and willing to express their opinion freely and with conviction. Maybe your part of the country is different.
Sure hope you add to our political circle jerk. Jump in, hurdle a few insults, we will understand.
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 22:23:18
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Food For Thought
War occurs when there is a breakdown in Trade and Diplomacy
War is an instrumentality of The State
War is always a Rational Choice
Warfare has three main objects:
(a) To conquer and destroy the armed power of the enemy;
(b) To take possession of his material and other sources of strength, and
(c) To gain public opinion.
From: Principles of War
Carl Von Clausewitz, Prussian Military Philosopher
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Edited by - JimF on 01/27/2003 22:24:41 |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 22:31:21
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| Clayton what you see delevloping here is similar to your west coast province where extremist politics prevents any hope of intelligant government for ALL the people not just a selct few. A few remarks and the Rushimaniacs try to pidgeon hole me on the extreme anti american left, is this so they don't have to really look in the mirror? I regard myself as a centeralist politically, both sides have good ideas and the needs of a society change. The bottom line is (drum roll please) we will need to take Sadam, lets just do it with the world's support and for the right opps correct reasons. Kile, history is full of those who believed that only their morailiy is correct and everyone else is wrong, people like Mao Stalin etc. The only problem with war is people get killed, you ready to go Justin, because many so called evil democrates will be on the front line. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 22:47:12
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Clayton, down here in Louisiana we have quite a few transplanted Canadians. The first wave came in the late 18th century with the Acadians, now known as Cajuns. That's how my family got here. I guess you could say that I trace my lineage back to the Cajun Mayflower through the Heberts and the Lafleurs. The second wave of Canadians has arrived much more recently. They came here to take advantage of the petro-chemical industry and the nursing shortage in the US combined with your socialized medicine system. I know several of these recently transplanted Canadians. They are Franco and Anglo. I prefer the Franco ones personally, the Newfies in particular, no offense. They seem to share a simmilar background and upbringing to myself, not to mention simillar sur names. We taught them how to eat crawfish and they taught us how to play hockey and curse in French. The only problem is now we know what our grandmothers were really saying when we were growing up.
As to your query about the deep schism in political viewpoint, I can't quite seem to figure it out myself. I know what my views are and they seem to make perfect sense to me. I honestly don't see how those on the other side of the political fence can come to the beliefs that they have, but I'm sure that they feel just as strongly and deeply as I do about them and probably think I'm just as looney to come to my crazy conclusions. The divides tend to be regional, and cultural, and racial, and socioeconomic and educational and on and on. But the funny thing is, no matter which sub group you look at you will find opossing viewpoints in those groups. You have liberal, pro-choice southerners and you have conservative anti-afirmative action minorities. You have rich liberals and dirt poor conservatives. You have highly educated minds on both sides.
The only thing that you can be sure of is the political divide is real and it seems to be widening. We haven't had a presidential candidate get a majority of the popular vote in the last three elections. You have to go all the way back to Bush Sr. to find a popular majority and even that was only in the 50's. Even the media's favorite president since JFK, Billy C. never got better than 49%. Our last presidetial election came down to a few counties in Florida with senior citizens too weak to punch holes in a piece of paper. It seems the population of your neighbors to the south is becoming more and more polarized every day.
But if you scratch that superficial surface, as I'm sure you have time and time again, you will find the most loyal, patriotic, and generous citizens a nation has ever produced. When Earthquakes rock the third world, who's air force is first to arrive with plane loads of food and medical supplies. When tragedy strikes the megalopolis of the East Coast, we all drop our petty regional differences and pull together. My state alone, one of the poorest in the country, donated 5 emergency vehicles to the New York City Fire Dept. strictly from private donations, not a dime was spent from the state treasury to purchase a pumper truck, a decon truck and 3 chief's cars. Groups from my state collected food and other necessities and drove up to NYC to cook jambalaya and gumbo for the workers at Ground Zero. I'm using my state as an example because it is what I am familliar with. You can multiply this generosity by at least 49 because all the other states pitched in and helped just the same. And when two storms hit us in a week this fall, I met Red Cross volunteers from all over the country who came here to help us. That is just who we are.
Don't let the partisan bickering fool you. We are like that family with 7 brothers who grew up down the street from you. They were always fighting amongst themselves but mess with one and you have to deal with them all. We have our first ammendment and just like me with the Air Conditioning in a motel room, I've got it and I'm gonna use it so bring your mittens when you come to visit my room. |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 22:49:30
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Mark, I proudly served in the US Marines for 4 years. I was willing to lay my life on the line to protect this country which I dearly love. Did you Serve? Do you think Clinton served? Do you think he really did not have sex with that woman? Do you equate conservatives with the likes of Mao & Stalin? Can you only come up with communist as examples? Are you sane? Do you hate Bush? And last, but not least, history is correct! Someone is always right and someone is always wrong. Conservatives are right. And you mention morality (morailiy) yours is obviously challenged!!!!
Clayton, now that Mark has enlightened us with his geographical intelligence, we now know why BC is such a terriable place full of extremist or folks with views other than his. Maybe Mark could give us a state-by-state breakdown of what is wrong with this country based on his infinate wisdom of American Values and Morals and his superior geopolitical understanding. Yea Mark, yoo da man...
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 23:21:15
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Mark,
First of all, like Justin, I proudly served my country for 6 years and if needed to I'd strap it on again. We are not one giant united world. We are actually a couple hundred independent states all looking out for our own interests. Sometimes those interests are mutual, sometimes they are not. In the end it is up to Uncle Sam to do what is in the best interests of the citizens of this great land.
Secondly, there is only one correct morality, everything else is immoral. That's how it works. Moral relativism is something dreamed up by the political left. What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. That's the difference between those on the left and the right. Those on the right are not afraid to point out something when it's wrong. Those on the left prefer to make excuses for evil deeds. It was his upbringing, it was society, it was poverty, it is never the transgressors fault. Those of us on the right don't believe in this wishy washy view of the world where everything is gray. There is occasionally some gray area in this world, but there is much more black and white than there is gray. |
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Oh Canada??? a question
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