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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2003 : 08:38:48
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Well, chilluns, the time for fussing about Shrubby & Iraq is over. It's now fightin' time.
But, in retrospect, I feel honored to be in your company through this thread and, indeed, this website. There is a true sense of belonging in this group similar to the debates in the English Parliment that was on CSPAN2 the other day. This measure of acceptance and respect for each other reflects well on us as fellow professionals and as friends.
That bit of maudlin sentiment said, can our next round robin thread focus on each others interesting and disgusting personal habits? We could start with my alledged hypochondria, CCARR wearing his underwear three days in a row, Kiles incessant belching, JIMF inherent cheapness when buying dog food, Lindas defective driving habits...??? |
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USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 09:31:35
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You know the world is going crazy when...
the best rapper is a white guy,
the best golfer is a black guy,
and Germany doesn't want to go to war.
rez |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 09:41:53
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Sure glad no one agrees with me, think alikes don't make a "colourfull" society. What would be the point if you had a cowboy/indian movie where everyone got along. Don't let me interupt your squabble.
Clayton I just happen to run off a batch of wine. Sacrement wine of course, and not that cheap Mad Dog 20/20 the Church uses. This is for the my ragged revival tent meeting that I will put up at the convention. Ghost Buster is going to pass out the snakes.
I have read most of the posts here but I have been busy, I had to help my neighbors by taking out their satelite systems and replace them with antennas, put up a security light and installed new tub and shower fixtures, two dental appts, took my wife to the emergency room and to the Dr. the next day. Other than that I had to mow two acres of wild onions and layed around watching soaps and Jerry Springer. I know thats not an excuse, and I'm sorry, I just got lazy.
Well the war is in progress, the coin has been tossed and there are winners and loosers, it is now time to do the deed regardless of your views, it serves no purpose to say we are wrong and run the country down, you can do that later and leave if you can no longer support what we stand for. If we had been United in the first place Saddam might have stepped down, how ever I think he was encouraged by the split. I see both sides, and we no longer have the luxury of having a debate in private, its on the table and the whole world gets in on it.
I am not sure we need all the other countries to agree with us, most have hidden agendas that are less than honorable if brought to light. The UN is full of elite from Dictatorships just as evil as Saddam. The only time they can agree with anyone is the highest bidder gets the vote.
I am for closing the UN, run these thugs out of the country. They rule by fear, and they need to have a dose of their own medicine, mess with us and your're toast.
The UN war in Korea was a failure, because when you have a UN war it is normally politicly run. The Gulf war was a failure, ok if you disagree with this, but the facts are, it was unfinished .
A political General instigated the calling off and the Washington loop made the descission.
You never gain respect by arguing, and the UN is not a debating society, nothing is resolved without oppisition. And eventually if you argue enough, nothing you say is taken seriously or as having any merit. If you are a wealthy nation, its human nature that the poor hate rich. I even hate my rich neighbors. Bubba has three Fire Birds and a Camero on blocks and I don't have a single one, life just ain't fair.
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Dadx9
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2003 : 15:18:14
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Jim,
If you're going to quote Scricpture, make sure you understand the context. Peacemaker in the original language and thought does not equate against war or bringing peace to a secular problem. Just thought I'd stick my nose in. |
Don
"To be held in the heart of a friend is to be a king."
Bruce Cockburn |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2003 : 17:20:44
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Don, why don't you explain the meaning of peacemaker as you understand it or as it was intended.
Are you suggesting that Jesus advocated war as way of resolving problems?
Thanks. |
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Dadx9
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2003 : 07:47:14
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Jim,
Nope. But the context of the Sermon on the Mount is spiritual not physical. We are at war with ourselves (flesh) and sin. We are at war with an adversary (roaring lion, the enemy, satan). Jesus is the Way to be at peace with God. Thus the Peacemaker analogy. Don't get me wrong, it is not difficult to connect the dots that we should be more intersted in the salvation of the souls or our enemies (national). Scripture is also clear that our war is not against flesh and blood but powers and principalities. I don't think we can entertain Scripture to support our positions concerning war with Iraq or anyone. Jesus didn't condemn the Roman Centurian for being in the Roman Army only rewarded him (the health of his daughter) for his faith. I made my comment only to remind us what the intent of Peacemakers is.
Since I have caused a bit of a detour here, I will either answer privately or open a new thread concerning this topic. Hope my anser helps. Fortunately I am not the final word on these matters. |
Don
"To be held in the heart of a friend is to be a king."
Bruce Cockburn |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2003 : 09:11:15
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Thanks for your response Don.
Given your response, I'm not all that sure that we really disagree or differ on this topic, other than slightly.
Do justice. Love kindness. Walk humbly with your God.
Peace be with you. |
Edited by - JimF on 03/22/2003 09:14:44 |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2003 : 12:07:13
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I didn't quote scripture, just the facts of history, maybe I should have said cults instead of relegion. It is a fact that when people put their faith in men instead of their creator, we get a cult and a cult will have an enemy.
Abraham, Joshua, David, were not Peacemakers, they occupied. I think the purpose of occupation is the key. To right a wrong is justified, thats my oppinion. Self defense is another and that is an inherited reponnse of every animal or human.
I don't know if if God communicated with these people and told them to occupy what they did, I have to take that on faith.
Peace is not what Iraq is about, those poor people have not known peace since the creation and maybe thats why Abraham left Ur. We have not known peace since we became involved with that area.
It all started in Tripoli with the Barbary pirates and the black mail or tribute demanded.
The solution to this delima is beyond our comprehension because we have a different mindset and values. As the world shrinks their problems or intentions are spilling over and affect us. Their view of self determination seems to be placed in the hands of the strongest and most most brutal.
My oppinion of the midlle East is, more of the same, because history always repeats itself in this area. The strongest clan takes power and the riches, the others are destitute. There is no middle ground. The whole contenant of Africa is also of simular mindset.
If anyone asked me if they should have a say in world politics, I would have to say they are not ready and may never be. The UN should be closed to those countries which deny people self determination. If not, we will go the way of the third world. At present they are the majority.
We don't expect everyone to agree with our principles, however those cults expect us to think like them or they plot to do us harm. If their enemies don't happen to be ours we are seen as taking sides. I guess you can't have two friends that dislike each other, that is the nature of children.
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2003 : 23:49:45
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Hopefully the war will be over soon. I have a very strong feeling that something bad will happen soon. I hope I'm wrong. Please keep our guys and gals in uniform in your prayers.
I stumbled upon this article today and I can't figure out why it hasn't been played up more in the media. It was on PBS, not exactly what you would call a pro-war or pro-Bush outlet. Maybe the guy has been discredited. Has anyone else seen anything else about this?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 12:52:59
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| Kile maybe some will better understand the reasons why the President could not let Saddam gain more power. If I see the article from a human shield that got his eyes opened by the locals and got his butt out I will post the link. He said he was asked over and over how much Saddam was paying them to come into Iraq. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 14:42:43
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Gale, it is no secret that I favored finding other means of resolving differences than by resorting to war. That being said, there will be plenty of time and another day for the finger pointing, 'I told you so's', second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking.
Needless to say, like all other Americans, I support our President and our brave American military troops once the decision was made to instigate war.
There are fearful days ahead, and not all of the signs we are seeing so far have been good, but I do believe the American and British forces will in the end, prevail in their objective of removing Sadaam's regime.
Let's save the political fervor until the ballgame is over and support our President and troops while they face the enemy and their lives are imperiled.
God Bless America. |
Edited by - JimF on 03/23/2003 14:45:45 |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 17:16:39
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Jim I am glad you feel the way you do. I am not so sure we will win this war. Oh I think Saddam will be removed and most will be pleased but if members of our Army are more loyal to a religious system (subsystem) and are willing to kill their fellow soldiers it is going to be bad. How do you fight when the man behind you wants you dead for following orders?
What was your statement about political fervor concerning? There was no political content in my last post by intent. I was just saying if we had the information like the President has we could all better see the how’s and why’s of this war. Now that it is clear we caused the death of tens of thousands in 1991 by cutting and pulling out after encouraging a rebellion again Saddam I do hope we can act in a more moral way so as not to murder so many by default this time.
It is sad we are going to be forced to kill so many non-fighting women and children now that Iraq soldiers are getting into street clothes and trying to use the women and children to keep US soldiers from shooting them but since they said they were going to do that it is no surprise. The big question about to be answered is can our leadership live with the pressure of heavy loss of our own soldiers. 5000 men and women would be a very small loss percentage wise of our forces but what would the new channels be saying? Street fighting will run the numbers up. Let us hope the shock and awe works quickly.
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 18:17:04
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Jim, I didn't post that article to be an "I told you so" and if it seemed that way I whole heartedly apologize. I was just amazed when I read it and was puzzled why it hadn't been played up more in the media. It may have helped the administration gain support. The only reason I could think that it wasn't used was that the credibility of the witness may be in question. That is all.
The last 24 hours have been the toughest so far and it will get worse before it gets better. I watched the live fire fight last night in utter amazement. I can't believe we have come so far in our 24 hour news cycle that we can actually show firefights in progress and have a staff sergeant actively involved in the fight give us play by play. I'm not making a judgement on it good or bad, I'm just saying that it's incredible.
God bless our troops. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 18:28:17
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Gale and Kile, no apologies necessary and I did not intend my post as suggesting nor implicating either of you for 'political fervor' or posting political comments, but rather, only as a suggestion to all, that we honor and support our troops and President at this time, and we can return to a debate later as to the merits of this war.
For all of you interested in staying abreast of the latest news on the Iraqi war, I am enclosing a link to the BBC weblink, which gives us the uniquely British slant in their coverage of this war as well as world events.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
God Bless America.
Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. |
Edited by - JimF on 03/23/2003 18:30:38 |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
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Iraq
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