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mshort68
USA
138 Posts |
 Posted - 04/20/2003 : 19:43:53
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| Jim, the one I heard is that the old bull couldn't keep up and withered away. Great story. Thanks for reminding me. |
The grass is always greener on the other side, but it still has to be mowed! |
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 20:59:24
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| Trust me , you heard wrong.......Jim had it right...... |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 22:59:08
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Lest you forget:
Seems that this young, energetic bull and this old, mature and
wise bull were moving up the hill. The young bull, new to the
pasture, was full of spit and vinegar and all set to give 100%
of his effort to any initiative that made sense.
As they crest the top, they spot a herd of cows in the pasture
in the valley.
"Let's say we run down and get one!" says the young bull
to the old bull.
"Let's say we walk down and get them all." replies the old bull.
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GLB
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 23:01:34
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mshort 68
It is obvious this is your first storm and probably just completed a two weeks school to obtain your license. No experienced adjuster would be bragging about the money they are making. This keeps others from trying to hook up on the storm. Give us a correct count on claims closed after the re opens have been concluded by the clean up crew. We have all heard this talk before. The adjuster has one good day and tells this number is the average for the storm. If you figure the roofing squares as you figure the claims per day there will be re opens. 24 days at 6per day is 144 total. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 23:13:30
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Gary, I agree with you that cat adjusters shoot themselves in the foot and other anatomical parts when they discuss publicly how much they make per day, per claim, per storm. First of all, the stories are generally embellished and secondly, as you suggest, they fail to take into consideration the reopened files which reflect poor service to insureds and cast aspersion of whatever little professionalism our independent catastrophe ranks can perceivedly muster.
By such immature behavior, we are presenting a false picture of the financial rewards to the reader or listener, who is not also reminded of all those times when cat adjusters are sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring and Mother Nature is not cooperating, and failing to present an accurate picture which fails to mention our high expenses and lack of benefits comparable to regular employment.
Such braggadocio does nothing to discourage every Tom, Dick and Harry from then wanting to take that one week or two week course you mention, jumping in thinking they are suddenly an insurance adjuster professional, and thus further diluting the work pie for all of us, while also performing the sloppy work that degrades our collective reputations at the expense of carriers finding alternative means of handling catastrophes absent usage of cat adjusters.
I am sure we have all heard the guilty parties, as there is always one around on every storm, and to make matters worse, their boasting of pay and income also serves to widen the chasm between independents and staff, thus feeding the downward spiral of resentment by staff and staff management towards independents.
It is the braggarts among us who have given rise not only to the expression "turn and burn" or "slash and burn" adjusters but to the reality as well, that emphasis on quantity rather than quality of our claims and claims work product, in the end, harms us all.
We are sometimes, our own worst enemies.
When will we ever learn? |
Edited by - JimF on 04/20/2003 23:22:43 |
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slowhandfan
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 23:14:59
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I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call Bull**** on the 215 in 24 days
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 23:31:42
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For the life of me, I cannot even begin to imagine that any carrier or vendor would even consider ASSIGNING any adjuster 215 claims within a 24 day period period!
It seems to me, that before any carrier would allow or any vendor would ever even consider doing that, the vendor would be calling in many more of their valued adjusters to spread the wealth among their valued adjusters and to keep a loyal following of good cat adjusters in their stable. (If Mr. Short will advise us of the vendor who assigned him 214 claims in a 24 day period, other loyal dedicated adjusters who normally work for that vendor, but are sitting at home begging for work, should be calling that vendor and asking some serious questions about why they weren't called out for work as well)
I cannot say it in any stronger language BUT any expectations for loyalty by adjusters to vendors must be met with some consideration for the vendors showing some loyalty in return if the vendor expects dedication for future storm events!
And for any vendor to assign 214 claims to any adjuster for any reason within a 24 day period is outrageously ludicrous, unfair to other adjusters on their employment roster , highly unusual and unquestionably unprofessional.
Mr. Short, please share with all of us the name of your vendor in Pineville.
That vendor automatically wins the April award for the Vendor Hall of Shame and would be the hands down favorite to win the Worst Vendor of the Year Award! |
Edited by - JimF on 04/20/2003 23:53:18 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 07:52:58
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This issue concerning the assignment of 214 new claim files in 24 days, to one person; is unforunate for all the reasons stated after that remark was made.
The effect of it is wide ranging through the spectrum of those exposed to its result - the carrier, vendor, the person assigned the claims, and the insureds.
There seems to be little need / use for an "adjuster" to handle hail claims for dwellings, certainly not within the context of an adjuster that I grew up understanding; hence in the above, I have limited that 'role' to "the person assigned the claims".
My comments on this are focused primarily on the carrier, then to a lesser extent the vendor. These comments although non-specific to the stated 'fact' of the recent posts of the DFW hail event; no matter how general they may be, the statement of "214 in 24 days" will in time cause alarm at the carrier level.
When a carrier is faced with a 3000 or 5000 claim cat event, they would likely engage from one to three of their cat vendors; depending on the type of storm, spread of the storm, and the current carrier / vendor "politics".
Prior to that engagement, aside from any specific contracts, there is a pretty clear understanding between the carrier / vendor of "how" the vendor will manage the assignment to them; be it 2000 or 5000 claims.
Obviously I can not speak for the carrier involved in the "214 in 24", but if it is a respected national carrier with any consistent history of fair and equitable claims service, one of the "pretty clear understandings" will be the average amount of assignments per person. It is very unlikely that the number would be 100, and certainly would not be 200.
Depending on the certification / approval process or requirements of the carrier regarding the "people assigned", as the vendor receives the claims and in turn assigns them; the vendor would be required to provide a log to the carrier of the received claims with their claim number and name of the assigned person.
Somewhere in this process, as the 'paper' is moved along as the files are concluded, the carrier will develop "a feel" for how - in general and at times specific - the assigned people are doing; with regards to the files they are assigned, closing periods, and average loss, etc. It will become clear on the spreadsheets soon enough, that one or more persons have been assigned or handled a volume of claims far in excess of agreed average volume levels.
Therefore, once again, a carrier has yet another reason to loose another piece of that critical trust factor, and will yearn harder and longer for a bigger piece of that critical control factor. The vendor will undoubtedly have a basket of excuses of why that happened; but the result is still there.
If the carrier / vendor understanding is on a lower plateau; i.e. get this done asap, with the vendor allowed to manage the event within their own criteria, then the industry as a whole suffers both in the short term and the long term. The carrier will eventually become known for the lack of control and effect of the type of service they provide. Other carriers, providing fair and equitable service to their insureds, will shy away from the vendor known to encourage "turn and burn" service. Adjusters, who hold themselves out as professionals and that are skilled at their profession, will shy away from the vendor that encourages "turn and burn" service. Policyholders who have "turn and burn" service applied to their losses, will continue to bad mouth the traditional cat claims process, and will likely seek out an alternative carrier offering alternative storm claim service methods.
Two scenarios are possible within this "214 in 24" picture.
First, if that statement is credible, the carrier and vendor will be at odds with each other in due course. That being the case, I would hope that the carrier deals effectively and swiftly with the vendor; and that it finally results in that vendor not being engaged in the future. |
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Davey
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 08:24:05
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I have to agree with slowhandfan's assessment of Short's chest thumping.
"shorty" has put his numbers up on the board before and they are just as unbelievable. Whatever crediblilty he had, emphasis on had, is gone. So, lets just ignore him and he may go away. Til the next storm and a new "fish story". |
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Darryl
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 11:41:15
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All the talk of 10-15-20-30-40, etc. a day is wonderful. As with all adjusters (yes, I still consider myself an adjuster and always will)that manage storms the perfect adjuster is one that can properly satisfy all the concerns of the insured, inspect and close a ton of claims and have none re-open. In reality, we settle for a good combination of the three. I find it counterproductive to take credit for a high number of closures as well as to knock someone that is doing same. As usual without all the information it is difficult to know how many claims should be closed by an adjuster on a storm without seeing the amount of damage, the type of roofs and the colateral damage associated with the storm.
As for how many adjusters should be assigned how many files and by whom that again is a case specific event. There is no norm, some of the carriers we work for decide how many adjusters to call out and others leave it to our discretion. When we have the option many things come into the decision making process. First and foremost is customer service; the other things in no particular order are need to work adjusters that have been without for an extended period, personal circumstances of adjusters sitting home, and as with all decisions what makes the most sense.
Once again, I think the site would be best served with useful information being shared. Number of possible claims in the area, types of risks, location of losses and any other factors that an adjuster preparing to take an assignment might find beneficial.
Darryl |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 12:00:56
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214 in 24 is pretty good I'd say. BUT, April 2002, I did 242 in 22 days. Now you can start on me and get off his back. He's a good adjuster. The man will pay more in taxes than most of you will make this year and you want to blame HIM for that. You guys joined this game on your own so live with the rules you made. All this complaining wont make your paycheck bigger. Drop your crying towel and grab a ladder. There's work for everybody.
Have a nice day.
CD |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 13:08:21
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Darryl, I agree to a certain extent that a "robo-adjuster" is one that can;
(a) satisfy all the concerns of an insured
(b) inspect and close "a ton of claims"
(c) and have none re-open
However, it seems to me that the "ton of claims" is affected on the "scales" of service by (a&c) above. It must be some kind of magic "vendor blender" you have that allows you to try and mix these three things.
From what has been said by others concerning the types of roofs, amount of damage, and the collateral damage; I don't think it is too difficult to estimate average closings that may be anticipated from a person successfully providing (a&c) above, and it seems to be measurably below "214 in 24". However, you would be the best one to enlighten us on that estimate or perception.
I'm sure it is quite a process to decide - whether it be your decision or one made by others - regarding how many adjusters should be asigned and how many claims they should be assigned. But, when the option is yours, your "mixer bowl" for your "vendor blender", for your "robo-adjuster" ingedients seems to be heavily scented with ingedient (b) above; and not the blends of the personal consierations you have noted. I did note the absence of any specific comments in these 'personal considerations' regarding adjuster loyalty. Perhaps it is timely to hear about how a vendor weighs that factor, knowing that some day or year there will be the next 'big event'; where your 'list' will be put to the test to fullfill your obligations and committments.
Your last paragraph seems to suggest that you don't want "robo-adjusters" putting their numbers up on the board? If I was a representative of the vendor or carrier, I to would take considerable exception to that. But perhaps I'm looking at it from the wrong angle on that issue. Maybe that is good 'advertising' for the vendor that Shorty proclaims his "214 in 24"?
I still believe and suggest, subject to you convincing me otherwise, that the "robo-adjuster" working in the environment as described in recent posts, has lost a significant portion of the critical ingedients (a&c) above, and in time the carrier and the vendor will be faced with the ire of the insuring public. Please explain what component of this that I don't understand.
Lannie, as you know, 'numbers' are all comparative or at times not relative. You can not claim the prize for the day with your "242 in 22". Your mentee, Shorty, has explained the environment in which he accomplished his feat. You as his mentor, would have to lay it on as to how much more difficult the risks were to 'inspect' during the time of your great quest; to claim bragging rights. I say this in a truly non-competitive manner, as I have no interest in doing hail claims; and hence my hands are otherwise occupied, with neither a crying towel or a ladder. |
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LAW1526
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 13:08:36
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I would like to interject my two cents to this issue. I have been adjusting now for the past five years. I most likely started in this industry at the worst time. Storms have been few and far between and the storms that have occurred have not been very fruitful. I have taken any assignment that comes my way.
I just wanted to reflect on my first assignment with a small IA company out of southern California servicing Nationwide in Raleigh NC. At the storm office they had a board on the wall with all of the adjusters names working the storm. At the end of each day the board would reflect how many closing an adjuster had turned in from the day before. Out of about 60 adjusters there were a consistent 10 or so (same names each day) of adjusters with high closings. I remember how intimidating/envious it was to me to see this board each day. I personally wanted to make the top 10 list, but I decided to just do the best job I could in however long it took me for myself, the carrier and the insured's I worked for. After the first 30 days the rumors were out about cutting back adjusters. I just knew this was the end for me, as I had not one time made the top 10 list. As a matter of fact I had always fallen some where in the middle. When the first cut came and much to my amazement I was not asked to leave. However several of the top 10 were asked to leave. When the next cut came around and to my amazement based from the tracking board once again I was not released. Again several of the top 10 were released. Three months into the storm all of a sudden I was 1 of about 15 adjusters standing. At this point I started receiving reopen claims and low and be hold all those adjusters I was so intimidated and envious of, I was now being request to fix their files. I remembered how intimidated I had been by there ability to close that amount of files in a day and how I wished I could do the same primarily for the financial reward of closing that amount claims in a day. Then it dawned on me that they were all gone, I was still there and my income was still coming in. I had achieved the top 10 list with out ever getting on the board. I wound up working 5 months on that project my very first storm.
I later inquired as to how I was able to stay on the storm when so many seasoned adjusters were sent home. I learned from the storm manager my work had been greatly appreciated by the carrier and the IA company I was working for. I was told my estimating of damages were detailed my ability to include all damage and apply policy was above average. I was told I had about a 95% ratio of my closed claims staying closed with out reopening and my insured’s were providing excellent feed back to the carrier. The carrier sent out questionnaires for their insured’s to complete and return regarding the service they had received. I learned that the insured’s that receive good service (regardless if the received payment or not CWP’s) would fill out the questionnaires and return them to the carrier.
Over the past five years I have not worked the amount of assignments I would like to have worked or as many as the seasoned adjusters are working. I have worked enough to keep the lights on, the rain off my head and gas to get to the next assignment and very minimal payments in taxes. You’ll have to read between the lines about my income bracket.
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LAW1526
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 13:16:54
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Cont-
I still get intimidated/envious at storms when I hear about the amount closing by adjusters. I can say with complete honesty on the assignments I have worked I have always been one of the last adjusters to be released from the storm. When I send out my resume I have a reference list with real names and phone numbers of storm managers and adjuster I have worked with enclosed with my resume. I no longer have to put on my resume reference upon request.
I hope Mr. Mshort for the sake of his insured’s and his pocket book will heed this message.
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 13:17:44
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| Lenny (LAW1526), welcome to CADO. I note that you have made your 1st post to CADO, and must say that it is a truly excellent commentary that illustrates the point very clearly. Thank you. |
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It started on Hail and ended where ??
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