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Last Post 01/04/2012 10:41 AM by  StormSupport
ATEC National Flood Services Certification ?????
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KLS
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01/22/2011 1:25 PM

    NADO, ATEC (Adjuster Training and Education Centers) is advertising a certification requirement class for National Flood Services* this year. (www.atecgroup.org) along with some other carriers.  I've contacted vendors working claims regularly for NFS and they were not aware of any such requirement from NFS.  So, "Know Before You Go" if you plan on spending the $125 for this.  It may simply be NADO's in-house requirement for these entities but the advertising doesn't say that.

    KLS

    *FYI, National Flood Services (NFS) is one of the third party administrators who work for various WYO carriers to administer flood policies for them (rate, issue, maintain, claims, etc).

    Tags: Flood
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    CatAdjusterX
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    01/22/2011 8:24 PM

     

    The only way an adjuster can handle a flood claim through completion is through being certified through NFIP.

    Check that, anyone can work a flood claim provided their work is compiled and signed off on by an NFIP qualified adjuster, meaning that qualified adjuster must have their name on the estimate.

    Anyone can take an NFIP workshop , however only those with X amount of experience can apply for and be granted an NFIP certification number

    CatadjusterX

     

     

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    WILLIS
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    01/23/2011 2:05 PM

    The sad reality of our business is pointed out in the first post.

    No so long ago you could work for a carrier / vendor because you had successfully worked prior storms and if available were licensed in your home state.  Post-Katrina  the volume of storm work has decreased significantly, however, look at all the "Certification Classes"  Training Schools"  "Software Training"  'State and Local licensing changes"  that have sprung up.  It is more profitable to run a "Certification and Training" school than it is to work the claims.  Almost every carrier now requires " training and certification just to work their claims"  amazing  is there really that much difference in an HO-3 policy wheh they are all issued as an ISO form??  Has the NFIP Flood policies changed that much over the years??  Add to that "IF YOU WANT WORK YOU WILL HAVE XACT 25, 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, 26, 26.1, 27, 27.1 ET AL PLUS MSB AND SIMSOL".  Guess who gets to pay for that software? 

    On top of that our business is flooded with "Newbies"  who are told you can be a millionaire after one storm.  So now you arrive at a loss site all your certifications must be in order, irregardless if you have been adjusting for 30 years, and if so we will graciously give you 15-20 claims to see how you perform.  Get those back is 5 days completed without any mistakes from our team and reinspectors, who to keep their jobs must find something wrong with every claim submitted,  and maybe, just maybe we will give you 10 more. Then we will decide if we want to keep you on.   Considering the cost just to reach an area then do this job that is daunting. You may or may not get more work, if not you might not clear enough to even pay expenses. 

    I was being paid more in 1985 on basic fee schedules than I am paid now on the best schedules. Digital and technology has destroyed billing. Digital photos are free now, forget the cost of the camera, cost to label and post,cost to have internet access and cell phone use,  we used to get $2/each no more,  Mileage  in Katrina I was paid $1.25/mile  if a storm comes today I get zero mileage. See how long that last one works if gas goes over $4/gal or hits $6/gal by 2012

    I worked Dolly and Ike from an office on a day rate. The office was 2 miles from my home. I worked 7 days a week was home every night, bought one tank of gas per month, did not have to worry about photos. I could use my 30 years experience to an advantage. But inside has pressures sometimes worse than the field; you heard daily from your vendor and their carriers, push, push, push, make that IA do more, carriers changed prices, make them change the estimate, then change it back or better go to Xactanalysis and change the estimate for them then add on all the things we would not pay the IA to do, revise the billing and we can keep the profits. If the IA cannot see 10 claims in two days, forget that every loss he has is a nightmare,  and send a report, pull his files  we have IA's a plenty looking for work.  Inside has production requirements just like the field so there is no easy job anymore.

    Ahhh  the days when you could show up on site with 30 years experience,  were handed 100+ claims and told go work these, will have more tomorrow. You could use the software program you chose to use and reviewers adapted to it because they were "old dogs"  who knew how to adjust a claim. No cell phones, no internet, no fax machines, no computers,  almost no complaints from insured's. If an insured called your supervisor or manager handled the question, he did not want you to bother his field adjuster, because he is out there every day do all he can to see your loss and settle your claim.  Best of all claims got closed, were settled by the adjuster in front of the insured, and short of a supplement or holdback recovery almost never reopened. No attorneys, no PA's, no DOI complaints. 

     

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    CatAdjusterX
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    01/24/2011 1:10 AM

    Willis,

     

    I agree with you on most aspects. Now My 7 years does not hold a candle to your 30+ years , but I can agree that I have seen things change almost 100% from the way I was taught by some of your fellow 30+ yr experienced hands to the way things are being done now.

    I am thinking that The 4 in 04 and Katrina/Rita/Ike/ Dolly brought a few facts to the forefront. There was quite a bit of work for all involved through those 4 storm seasons .

    I think prior to these seasons, those out in the field were tried and true solid adjusters. Then we get some back to back seasons and the world saw that a good adjuster could make some serious money. So add a depression(make no mistake, we are still in a depression, this isn't a recession) and now folks are coming to our industry in droves thinking that the ease in getting licensed equates to easy money. With Carriers launching these cattle calls to folks who were flipping burgers on a Friday and went to a weekend seminar and on Monday they are trying to handle claims, to handle the massive amounts of claims generated from these events, our ranks became bloated with newly licensed adjusters and the skill level went way down. So many rookie adjusters screwed up so many claims so bad, it gave rise to the PA and attorney rep'd insured.

    Now that carriers have a huge list of people to choose from, the laws of supply and demand dictate a downward trend in fee schedules. Due to the colossul ineptness of many (not all )new adjusters that came on board, carriers wanted to cover their bases to ensure that these new hands can add 2 +2 before they get deployed , so certs started to be relied upon and mandated across the boards.

    Many IA firms were/are in severe dire straights due to the lack of weather events over the last few years and began to hedge some of their capitol in providing training courses, certifications, licensing so they can keep their doors open till the next Katrina/Andrew type event. Training/licensing/certifications have become an industry unto itself and not only rival CAT work, but exceed the income opportunities of CAT work right now. We may not like it, but companies evolve to stay relevant and stay above water. The unfortunate fact is those adjusters with 10+ years of experience are getting the short end of the stick because they don't need these certs to handle claims, but have to get them if they want to work 

    The weather events of late have required marginal deployments at best and only a select few have found work.

    I can tell you that I fell into this business in a very interesting way(another story entirely), but I attribute the fact of me able to work steadily since 2004 till my accident in 2009 and then my move into Management last summer as much to do with LUCK as it has to do with the skill of those who trained me in the beginning.

    It seems the days of day rates, T&E, photo charges and mileage are coming to an end. However, some IA firms still pay for those expenses.With digital photos now the norm, it is not costing us anything to produce other than the time it takes to upload and label. We pay 2.00 per photo after 10, .65cents a mile after 50, T&E is billed at 80 an hour for adjusters and 110.00 an hour for GA's. Day rates are gone for now

    Everyday I go to work, I know how lucky I am and I am keenly aware that adjusters with 10 times the skills than I have are sitting and I pray every morning that those adjusters will find work sooner than later.

    I strongly believe that the lack of work over the last few seasons will have a silver lining in as much as those who have bloated our ranks thinking they can make a quick buck will move on and leave only those who are skilled and those new adjusters who are in this business for the right reasons and are willing to pay their dues.

    Robby Robinson

     

     

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    Jud G.
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    01/26/2011 6:00 AM
    Posted By CatAdjusterX on 22 Jan 2011 08:24 PM

     

    The only way an adjuster can handle a flood claim through completion is through being certified through NFIP.

    Check that, anyone can work a flood claim provided their work is compiled and signed off on by an NFIP qualified adjuster, meaning that qualified adjuster must have their name on the estimate.

    Anyone can take an NFIP workshop , however only those with X amount of experience can apply for and be granted an NFIP certification number

    CatadjusterX

     

    Actually, the statements above are only correct if you are referring to claims issued by the NFIP.  There are plenty of entities such as Self Insured Retention funds, lender placed carriers, and non-admitted carriers that supply flood coverage outside the network of the federally administered NFIP program.  Adjusters freely and regularly work these claims without an NFIP certification.

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    pamelafarve
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    12/16/2011 1:36 AM

    Robby,

    Its not that the newbies as you put it is decreasing your pay.  Its the newbies that come into the business that doesn't take the time to learn the business.  Just as you mention, you fell into the business by luck so what because you have 9 years of experience the next newbie is not as good as you.  Well I had a mentor (friend) with 20+ yrs of experience that took his knowledge and helped me when I started. Just as you was a newbie years ago you had to learn the business as so does any other newbie....so don't discredit a newbie.  This newbie can probably run circles around your 9 years of experience.  Its not how many years you been an adjuster its the time you adjust.

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    CatAdjusterX
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    12/17/2011 1:32 AM
    Posted By Pam on 16 Dec 2011 01:36 AM

    Robby,

    Its not that the newbies as you put it is decreasing your pay.  Its the newbies that come into the business that doesn't take the time to learn the business.  Just as you mention, you fell into the business by luck so what because you have 9 years of experience the next newbie is not as good as you.  Well I had a mentor (friend) with 20+ yrs of experience that took his knowledge and helped me when I started. Just as you was a newbie years ago you had to learn the business as so does any other newbie....so don't discredit a newbie.  This newbie can probably run circles around your 9 years of experience.  Its not how many years you been an adjuster its the time you adjust.

    .....................................................

    Uhm Ms. Pamela,

    your post is interesting to say the least.

    First of all, I find the term "newbie" somewhat demeaning and as such when addressing the new folks I usually call them rookies,newly licensed claims professionalls, our newly licensed brethren, etc.......

    I have never, nor will I ever, discredit rookie adjusters PROVIDED they are here for the right reasons and are willing to learn and who understand that the 6 figure income is the fruits of the experienced adjuster who has paid their dues taken their lumps and has a thourough understanding of what their job is and isn't. In addition they put forth one time every time a superior work product.

    You are sadly mistaken if you think for one second that my years in this industry gives me the right to look down on our newly licensed brethren as in your words "NOT as good as me."

    I did in fact fall into this industry by accident and I also stated that my success in this industry has as much to do with luck as it has to do with my skill set as an adjuster. Exactly what offense you took from that is NOT clear

    Since you think that I discredit and look down on "NEWBIES" (your words)The following is a tiny bit of info/advice for you Ms. Pamela:

    I am the founder of the FROM ONE ADJUSTER TO ANOTHER website  (the FOATA NETWORK is an advocate and mentor site for our newly licensed claims professionalls)

    R-E-S-P-E-C-T for those who came before you is M-A-N-D-A-T-O-R-Y. 

    There is NOTHING more ridiculous than a rookie adjuster who thinks SHE knows everything there is to know about the adjusting industry.

    Are you the same Pamela Favre' who sent your resume to American Veteran CAT Services a few months ago? I think so !

    ROBBY ROBINSON
    Catastrophe Operations Manager
    Robby@avcatservices.com
    AMERICAN VETERAN CATASTROPHE SERVICES
    (541) 946-7800
    (541) 450-4718
    www.avcatservices.com

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    CatAdjusterX
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    12/17/2011 2:01 AM
    Posted By KLS on 22 Jan 2011 01:25 PM

    NADO, ATEC (Adjuster Training and Education Centers) is advertising a certification requirement class for National Flood Services* this year. (www.atecgroup.org) along with some other carriers.  I've contacted vendors working claims regularly for NFS and they were not aware of any such requirement from NFS.  So, "Know Before You Go" if you plan on spending the $125 for this.  It may simply be NADO's in-house requirement for these entities but the advertising doesn't say that.

    KLS

    *FYI, National Flood Services (NFS) is one of the third party administrators who work for various WYO carriers to administer flood policies for them (rate, issue, maintain, claims, etc).

    ..................................

    I had some newer folks ask for some advice when they were asked to deploy with NADO in response last summer in response to Irene. They had heard stories about NADO burning more than a few adjusters a few years back.

    I told them that yes they indeed DID not pay more than few adjusters back then. However, I told them that was under a different vendor name and that maybe they learned from their mistakes and restructured to give them another chance. I also told them to watch carefully and the first sign of the same old game they should high tail it out of there (I will be forever sorry that I gave that advice)

    ........

    I was amazed to hear that some newly licensed folks were doing some claims (these were their very first claims on their own)for some UN NAMED VENDOR and every time they had a question on how to proceed with said estimates, THEY GOT NO RESPONSE FOR LITERALLY WEEKS. So these guys turned these claims in to the best of their ability without ANY help from a team lead or claims manager. So when these new folks weren't getting any paychecks, they inquired as to if there were any revisions or problems needing to be corrected. Again no response!!!

    Weeks and then months after Irene was finished, some got angry emails from said team leads and claims managers explaining that because said estimates were so poorly done that there were going to be significant penalties on these incorrect estimates.

    I am disgusted that this UNNAMED VENDOR would make a mockery out of our industry.

    I feel I let these guys down

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!!!

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    okclarryd
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    12/20/2011 10:44 AM
    Just between you and me..................what is the name of the "unnamed vendor", Robbie.

    Larry D Hardin
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    CatAdjusterX
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    12/21/2011 1:44 AM
    Posted By OkcLarryD on 20 Dec 2011 10:44 AM
    Just between you and me..................what is the name of the "unnamed vendor", Robbie.


    Larry, I don't wanna name Names As Doing sO wouldn't be fair to those who have yet to get paid.

     

     

    "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com
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    okclarryd
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    12/22/2011 10:04 AM
    Where does "unfair" enter into naming some IA firm that hasn't paid the help?

    Perhaps an email to their owner/director stating that pay needs to be addressed or facts and figures will be posted on CADO for all to see would be "fair".

    Perhaps posting this information here would suffice. Perhaps posting the name of the company and the principals anyway would suffice.

    In the past, companies have been named that have had pay issues and sometimes these issues were resolved because of the public notice. I am having some issues with an IA firm that not only hasn't paid me, but has lost several of the files that I submitted. And, then I'm embarrassed when the Insurance Company calls months later wanting to know when I'm going to submit my file.

    I've given this company until the end of the year 2011 to pay me for all files with a complete breakdown of the fees amd percentages paid. If I'm not paid, I'll pursue it in public (probably here) and through the legal system as a breach of contract.

    We'll see how this works out and I'll post it here.

    Merry Christmas......................
    Larry D Hardin
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    StormSupport
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    01/04/2012 10:41 AM
    Posted By Pam on 16 Dec 2011 01:36 AM

    Robby,

    Its not that the newbies as you put it is decreasing your pay.  Its the newbies that come into the business that doesn't take the time to learn the business.  Just as you mention, you fell into the business by luck so what because you have 9 years of experience the next newbie is not as good as you.  Well I had a mentor (friend) with 20+ yrs of experience that took his knowledge and helped me when I started. Just as you was a newbie years ago you had to learn the business as so does any other newbie....so don't discredit a newbie.  This newbie can probably run circles around your 9 years of experience.  Its not how many years you been an adjuster its the time you adjust.


    Pam,

    Don't take offense, although I know you will, but a lesson or two in grammar and punctuation would help you tremendously. Then people might actually take you seriously.
    ~Meg~

    Do the right thing, ALWAYS
    ~Meg~
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