Tags - Popular | FAQ  

PrevPrev Go to previous topic
NextNext Go to next topic
Last Post 03/27/2011 2:30 PM by  Ray Hall
Certifications that will help get an adjuster deployed sooner!
 17 Replies
  • : No
Sort:
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
mjolly52
Guest
Guest
Posts:3


--
02/11/2011 11:03 PM

    I am considering 3 additions to my adjusting abilities:  NFIP certification,  Certified HAAG roof inspector, and  Rope and Harness Certification.  Can anyone tell me ( in order of their value to vendors and carriers) which of these skills or certifications are the most valuable in making an adjuster more "deploy-able" ?

    Tags: FAQ
    0
    ChuckDeaton
    Life Member
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Posts:1110


    --
    02/12/2011 11:33 PM

    Once you have all those certifications a healthy dose of luck and nepotism will help the most.

    If your brother-in-law needs a flood adjuster and there are flood claims you will be near the top of the list.

    Then the question becomes, is there a return on my investment? Can I cover my expenses and pay my taxes with the gross.

    "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
    0
    JimGary
    Member
    Member
    Posts:470


    --
    02/13/2011 2:21 PM
    Posted By mark on 11 Feb 2011 11:03 PM

    I am considering 3 additions to my adjusting abilities:  NFIP certification,  Certified HAAG roof inspector, and  Rope and Harness Certification.  Can anyone tell me ( in order of their value to vendors and carriers) which of these skills or certifications are the most valuable in making an adjuster more "deploy-able" ?

     

    My first question would be, what are your current "adjusting abilities". If your current abilities are limited to classroom learnin, then there is very little that will make you more deployable, other than experience. If your looking for your first or even your second deployment, I would look into something that says "I want to be able to do more than measure a roofline", and that is generally taught through experience.

    JWG

    I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
    0
    Jud G.
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:509


    --
    02/13/2011 2:37 PM

    You haven't indicated how many years you've been in the business or what your experience is, so I'm really shooting in the blind. I'm assuming your in your first or second year based on your question.

    The old saying, 'beauty is only skin deep' applies here. I bring it up only to warn you not to channel too much energy on these certifications. I used to review resume's and would see people with every certification under the sun, but only have 2 years or less experience. My firm at the time saw that as a desperate plea. To avoid that image, make sure your attitude is spot on.

    This morning (2/13/11), I met a vendor rep who is coordinating emergency MetLife meetings to get people certified to work Ice Dams in CT. That carrier is a great place to get started since they are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to claims. Adjusters generally start here and move on to greener pastures. MetLife works you to death, the pay is pitiful, but you will learn a lot by adjusting their claims. It's like a good, hands-on college internship.

    If you haven't been to Vale or Farm Bureau Tech, I suggest starting there. Then, work your way up to Level 3 of your Xactimate certifications. Xactimate has at least an 80% market share and there's much to learn about it. The other softwares can be learned in a day or two. These two (2) places are more foundational to property adjusting than the three you mentioned above.

    Then the AIC or other Associate designations from the Institues. While you work on your AIC, I I would consider specializing in the certifications that you mentioned.  If you get into management, then go for the CPCU.

    Your question directly: I would go for HAAG Roof Certification since it deals with more practical knowledge and actually qualifies you for something. Anyone can show up and get an NFIP certification (100's of people including me have worked around the 4 year requirement) or demonstrate superior rock climbing ability, but not know how to adjust a claim. HAAG doesn't teach you how to adjust claims, but it will make you familiar with a specific aspect of property adjusting that dominates a significant majority of catastrophe claims out there.

    0
    Jud G.
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:509


    --
    02/13/2011 2:43 PM

    Jim posted at the same time that I did.  His is more concise.  Do what he said. 

    This is another one of many times I've agreed with Jim.  I recall an old post involving rocket science, lol!!

    0
    mjolly52
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:3


    --
    02/19/2011 2:16 AM

    I have closed 503 claims.  501 property claims of all sorts, 1 trucking claim, and one slip and fall.  Started in Katrina  (05)and deployed to Gustav (08).  Most of the claims have been daily over the last 2 yrs.

    0
    Atfulldraw
    Member
    Member
    Posts:88


    --
    02/19/2011 5:31 PM
    Rope and harness is going to get you nothing but a day rate job, IMO. If you want to work for an adjuster, throw that one on your resume.

    HAAG is nice, but you can learn everything they teach a lot cheaper than paying for the course.

    NFIP is great if you would rather work floods.

    Me? I like wind and hail, so none would be my answer. If I had to answer it would be NFIP, then HAAG, then R&H.

    What state licenses do you have? For the price of the HAAG course, you could add a bunch of licenses.

    Personally, I get the ones that hardly anyone else has.....the ones that require a separate test, a bond, or aren't your typical cat states.

    Rod
    0
    Jud G.
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:509


    --
    02/20/2011 12:44 AM
    Five years for 503 claims is not many. That would be if those claims are big commercial. I suggest taking some Xactimate courses and perhaps time managment to help on the speed. If you got your speed down, then go back to my original post. Target a course with Vale or Farm Bureau.

    Employers look for solid foundations & background first. Then they evaluate experience and validate their conclusions/assumptions based on your results. Don't specialize if you don't have a background first.

    If you are posting numbers or results on your resume, group your numbers per storm (not over the span of years) so that they show your cycle times. Under most circumstances, 503 claims over five years makes one wonder what you did for part time work. That's good over the span of 1.5 years.

    You're on the right track; always keep improving.
    0
    Jud G.
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:509


    --
    02/20/2011 12:48 AM
    Posted By Rod on 19 Feb 2011 05:31 PM
    Personally, I get the ones that hardly anyone else has.....the ones that require a separate test, a bond, or aren't your typical cat states.

    Rod, what are examples of those that you mention?

    0
    WILLIS
    Member
    Member
    Posts:97


    --
    02/20/2011 6:31 PM

    To the fellow asking which is more important.

    1.  Anyone can attend a NFIP course  but to get a license you have to have verifiable experience. Just having a license does not qualify you as a flood   adjuster.  That same thought goes for having a state adjuster license   those certifications do not support you can do the job correctly   

    2.  HAAG might be a good course but experience will teach you all they know and then some.

    3.  Ropes Course   that is for 25 yr old kids who work for Allstate or Snake Farm who believe they could never fall and brag they can walk right up a 12/12 pitch. Good luck with that.  Personally, I do not want anyone on my roof if they need to use a harness, why, first it causes damages, second, if or when they fall I do not want to be sued. I have adjusted claims for over 37 years and never used a rope or harness to inspect a roof.  I wear a good pair of Cougar Paws coupled with solid, common sense.

    0
    mjolly52
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:3


    --
    02/20/2011 9:26 PM
    This is really great. Thank all of you who contributed here. I am licensed in TX, AR, and OK. Started daily claims in Jan 09 after Katrina 55 claims. Gustav50 claims. Started daily in Jan 09. Stopped running daily claims last August 2010 simply because I could make as much money doing my old job painting houses. The daily claims were great experience but for the money, it didn't make sense to keep it up indefinitely.
    The daily claims were all over the state of AR, mostly. About 400 daily claims in 1.6 yrs. with some months lean on claims. Always (99%) worked in parameters of the cycle times. It was nothing to put 500 miles on the Silverado in a day, 2 or 3 times per wk. Perhaps one key is getting work closer to home?
    The claims were everything from a Tornado-obliterated marina,fire, wind hail, burst pipe, 3rd party,one collapsed factory roof, and a lot of churches. Largest claim: partial fire loss of $256,000.(property only) Mostly residential. Some commercial.
    This is the history behind wanting to be deployed for cat claims and wanting to know how to get higher on the deployment list. As for a slight desperation, I suppose that was truly insightful. I am 58 (which is perhaps a little late to be mountain climber of the 12 pitch.(been on a several) I have signed up for an NFIP cert class. (I'm also pretty good at contents)
    Please continue to add to this topic as I will read it all. I really appreciate all of your contributions.
    0
    Atfulldraw
    Member
    Member
    Posts:88


    --
    02/21/2011 12:06 AM
    Posted By Jud G. on 20 Feb 2011 12:48 AM
    Posted By Rod on 19 Feb 2011 05:31 PM
    Personally, I get the ones that hardly anyone else has.....the ones that require a separate test, a bond, or aren't your typical cat states.

    Rod, what are examples of those that you mention?

     


    Arizona (requires a test) and has paid off for me - worked some AZ claims this summer, then worked a great storm there in the fall

    New Mexico (requires a bond) - working here now, decent storm -- this is a freeze event, but can have some good hail

    New York (testing state) - not on my list, but there is a lot of work there at times - mostly wind and then of course, winter claims

    others that have provided income for me (return on a small investment .....) -  Delaware, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Vermont

     

    Rod
    0
    Jud G.
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:509


    --
    02/21/2011 1:23 PM

    Good stuff Rod.  I've always been able to get a temporary license for work in NY and other places, but your approach puts you ahead of the curve for those storms that require adjusters, but the state locales don't get the emergency declarations from the DOI.  If you reside in a testing state, you can get reciprocity for many locations. I believe you also need a bond for New York as well.  The NY state can be the best to have because of the test, poor reciprocity, and required bond.

    For flood work, if you have your NFIP certification and aren't working single adjuster program (SAP) claims, you can work anywhere since these claims are under the Federal jurisdiction.

    Another benefit of HAAG is that once you get it, you don't have to maintain it.  Additionally, I've seen more vendors seek out adjusters with this ancillary certification than I have for the rope and harness.  The nice thing about specializing in flood is that you don't generally have to climb roofs.  Many old-timers seek out this work for that very reason.  Plus, the money is good.

    In the next five years, keep an eye out for an increasing need for adjusters who possess a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Designation.  Upscale policies currently have endorsements that allow insured's to upgrade (yes, you heard me: UPGRADE) their property to become LEED Certified in the event of a covered loss.  In the future, it will likely become a necessary staple for HO3 policies and likely treated like Code Upgrade coverage.  Vale training created their own customized certification that combines knowledge of LEED criteria with knowledge of insurance coverage for select policies; see GRP.

    Those adjusters who got in on it when it first came out were able to get a catch-all 'LEED AP' designation.  Now, you start off with the LEED GA (green associate- not general adjuster) and it's practically not possible to earn one of the AP designations unless you have hands on project experience in your field of specialty; insurance adjusting does not count as project experience.

    0
    jsindallas
    Guest
    Guest
    Posts:11


    --
    03/06/2011 7:25 PM

    I'd call the Flying Walenda's before I take another rope & harness course.

    0
    Leland
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:741


    --
    03/18/2011 10:57 PM
    somebody please tell me EXACTLY how to get xm8 certified- its didn't seem to be spelled out on the xactware site that I could find. Thanks
    0
    Jud G.
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:509


    --
    Catsvstrained
    Member
    Member
    Posts:62


    --
    03/27/2011 9:11 AM
    Posted By WILLIS on 20 Feb 2011 06:31 PM

    3.  Ropes Course   that is for 25 yr old kids who work for Allstate or Snake Farm who believe they could never fall and brag they can walk right up a 12/12 pitch. Good luck with that.  Personally, I do not want anyone on my roof if they need to use a harness, why, first it causes damages, second, if or when they fall I do not want to be sued. I have adjusted claims for over 37 years and never used a rope or harness to inspect a roof.  I wear a good pair of Cougar Paws coupled with solid, common sense.


    Ignorance for the purpose of personal practice is unhealthy, but when cast out in a statement such as this one it is nothing short of irresponsible.

    Many of you folks out there know me and are aware of the fact that I am about getting to the truth, so walk with me if you will as I disect this statement piece by piece to determine the overall validity of its context:
     

    1) A "Ropes Course" / Challenge Course / Team Course is a collection of both high and low elements designed to produce many effects (i.e. group cohesion, self confidence, enhanced communication...) unfortunately Personal Fall Arrest System assisted roof inspection is not one of them.

    2) PFAS assisted roof inspection is a means of managing personal risk and is not just for the young adjuster, in all reality, it is for everybody, especially those of us who have long ago lost the type of mobillity, sence of balance and strength posessed by most 25 year old humans.

    3) Allstate does not train their staff or encourage their Independent partner (Pilot) towards any form of R&H / PFAS training as they use a program known as "Ladder Assist"  which amounts to specific rfg companies who assess steep roof damage for the carrier that in fact allows the carrier to sidestep the issue of employee risk on a steep roof all together. 

    For those of you at home who are counting, that is three (3) errors in the first thirteen words of WILLIS's statement.

    4) State Farm / "Snake Farm" (I assume) requires all of their staff adjusters (with a few exceptions) to outsource all of their steep roofs to their Independent partners (Eberl, Worley, Pilot & E.A. Renfroe) this is how they sidestep the issue of employee risk.

    Looks like we are at four for fifteen.

    5) Harnesses do not cause damage. PFAS  assisted roof inspection damage is caused by careless or simply poorly trained adjusters who do not practice proven techniques for avoiding such from happening.

    6) OSHA maintains a record of work related injuries (DOL requires employers by law to report injuries and fatalities in the format of a "Narritive") and there are a grand total of zero (0), narritives that exist of any fall related injury that stems from any person who is complying with all Fall Arrest standards as they are listed by the Dept. of Labor for the Construction Industry. This is in a nutshell why it is in fact "The Standard."

    7) Any person who has inspected claims for 37 years w/o possesing a PFAS kit and the understanding of how to use it is either giving all of these assignments back to the carrier, making poor decisions based on an incomplete investigation of the extent of damages to the risk, or taking on an unacceptable level of personal risk. My guess would be a large coctail of all three.

       Let's think about it folks, the Ins. Carriers are not scrambling in this day in age to outsource all of their steep, high and scary roof inspections because they want to be nice guys and help all of us independents out during a poor economy. They are outsourcing these claims because they have felt the sting of liabillity and want it to stop by passing the risk along to us.

    This in Fact is the bad news however, the good news is that significant breakthroughs have been made in the arena of PFAS assisted roof inspection (i.e. line positioning tools, belay devices and pivot lines). Enroll in an ACRABAT (Assoc. for Certified Rope Accessed Bld. Assessment Technicians) program today and see for yourself just how valuable this information is to your bottom line.

    CatSvs Trained
    0
    Ray Hall
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Posts:2443


    --
    03/27/2011 2:30 PM

    Insuranace carriers should out source all roof inspections to ladder assist contractors who do not need an adjusters license. An insurance adjuster should approve any losses concluded in this manner. Walking on roofs by "all adjusters" days are over. Too much legal liability they can not contract away by the vendor system. What does it cost less than $90.01 per roof.!

    0
    You are not authorized to post a reply.


    These Forums are dedicated to discussion of Claims Adjusting.

    For the benefit of the community and to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, please observe the following posting guidelines: 
    • No Advertising. 
    • No vendor trolling / poaching. If someone posts about a vendor issue, allow the vendor or others to respond. Any post that looks like trolling / poaching will be removed.
    • No Flaming or Trolling.
    • No Profanity, Racism, or Prejudice.
    • Terms of Use Apply

      Site Moderators have the final word on approving / removing a thread or post or comment.
    Roof ESX