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Last Post 07/07/2009 10:17 AM by  Ray Hall
problem with powerclaim
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MJW
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08/25/2008 5:42 PM

    I am a contractor that uses Xactimate for our estimates. A recent job has an adjuster who uses powerclaim. This is for a hail damaged roof. One building has dormers, flashings, etc. The other has none, Just a straight shot for shingling. Both are lumped into one price per square using powerclaim. I feel this is incorrect. Using Xactimate on the same house, the price difference is almost $6000. I really feel something needs to be done about this powerclaim software lumping everything into one category. Have any of you had problems with this?

    Ray Hall
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    08/25/2008 6:45 PM

    Joe Woolhouse its not a PowerClaim problem. Power Claim can do the same thing as xmate. Why dont you sent  me all the scopes and measurements and I will print out the loss on Power Claim for the adjusting community to see that this is a malicious lie, probably by a mold contractor. NO software makes the author competant. If you are not a liar I will tell  all readers of CADO

    MJW
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    08/25/2008 6:56 PM
    The estimate was made by an adjuster using powerclaim.He had a per square price and in the notes it said includes, tar paper, iceshield, valleys, nails etc. I don't have it in front of me right now. I used the same scope and measurements through Xactimate and the price difference was roughly 5-6,000. I just don't feel that doing a roof with valleys, step flashing, and extra iceshield should be the same price per square as a roof that has no penetrations.

    Are you saying that this may be an adjuster error and not a software error? Can this stuff be broke down to separate line items like on Xactimate?
    MJW
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    08/25/2008 7:06 PM
    One correction I remembered just now. I have 5% overhead and 5% profit added to my Xactimate figures. If you subtract that, the powerclaim estimate is only off $2-3,000.
    katadj
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    08/25/2008 7:17 PM

    There can be many reasons.
    1) What data base is used for each system, one could be texas and one alaska, compare apples tp apples.
    2) Anyone can make a mistake, contractor, adjuster, whomever.
    3) Level of experience of the adjuster and contractor.

    As Ray stated, send him the pix, masurements and ibfo and you will get a CORRECT answer.

    .02 applied

    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new... Albert Einstein"
    MJW
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    08/25/2008 7:22 PM
    The job is in MN. I will send the info to Ray.
    Ray Hall
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    08/25/2008 7:31 PM

    some one is off about 30 squares and thats about on small-med house. I would like for some of you folks sitting home watching the weather channel to join me in this skirmish and lets get one of each program, xware, powerclaim, simsol, IC and the new Canada program and really see any bottom line change on the TOTAL SQUARES was the complaint.

    NO O&P, Use the roofers scope and line items, use the Powerclaim scope and line items. Now if a line item is on one and not another the diagram and photos will be the tie breaker. OK Mr. Woolhouse please put up , OR write a public notice to members of the professional roofers of America, who you insulted with your slander statement.

    Just sell  your case right here. We need the zip code and a few photos to describe the roof and the diagram.

    MJW
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    08/25/2008 8:02 PM
    I think I have a valid complaint here, but maybe it is pointed at the wrong people. I sent you the info Ray. Please try to be professional and quit calling me out as a BS'er. I'm hoping to get alot of good info from the members here. Thanks
    HuskerCat
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    08/25/2008 11:53 PM

    No one else here has your diagram/scope to give an opionion.  Ray says there is a scope discepancy, but how are we to know?  On your original post it was a $600 difference, and now it's much higher.  But initially it was just dormers & flashings, now it's a different story.   Can we get the straight skinny, and then maybe be able to give you a more educated opinion?  I haven't used Power Claim before, so there could be a big difference in what is considered "included operations/materials" from one estimating program to another.    Afterall, depending on the degree of damage, chimney flashings are rarely replaced on hail losses and the drip edges/valleys are hit & miss too when it comes to actual replacement.   That is...if there is actually valley metal.  I've seen estimates that included R&R valley metal when the existing roof had a California weave instead of metal valleys.  

    rbryanhines
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    08/26/2008 12:14 AM
    First, before you post and ask questions you need to have all the facts in front of you if you really are seeking help.

    Second back out your O&P figure this will allow us to make a more educated comparison.

    Based on some of your rough numbers it looks like the claim is around $30,000 before O&P. Once you back out the O&P the two estimates are only off by less than 10% this should be easy to work though once all the info is gathered. My first thought is that its not a software problem but a user input problem.

    The two parties need to get on the same page.
    MJW
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    08/26/2008 8:07 AM
    LOL, I can see why we have to argue with adjusters everyday. The difference I quoted at first was $6,000, not $600. It is in print for crying out loud and you still say the contractor is wrong. haha

    The point is that this claim estimate from an adjuster using powerclaim had a per square estimate that includes flashings, valleys, etc.... Their line item includes all of these things. Got that now...???

    Ok now, say we have a roof with lots of flashings and valleys. Do you think it is fair to get the same measly $260 per square for that as I would for a completely open roof with no valleys and flashings? No, it's not. My question is.....using powerclaim can these line items be broken up into separate line items like on Xmate? If so, then it is just a cheap adjuster trying to make his job easier with less detailed bids. If not, then I really have a problem with the software.


    BTW, I see your point Mike on the valleys and getting paid for them when they are not there. Although if they are there they need to be replaced whether damaged or not. I have yet to have a "real" hail claim where the valleys are not damaged.
    StormSupport
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    08/26/2008 10:09 AM

    Mr. Woolhouse,
         May I suggest that you contact the support team at Power Claim and have them spend some time with you giving you exactly the information you seek. 

         I can assure you that they will take their time and go over with you every item if necessary and show you where the differences are, and help you resolve any discrepancies.
    My guess is that it is an input discrepancy rather than a software issue.

        The people at Power Claim, from the top on down are knowledgeable, helpful, caring and interested.  They will spend the time needed to answer your questions.  If you aren't satisfied, I can assure you that the owner of the company will personally talk with you if necessary. 
         Its that kind of company, unparalleled with their customer service, involved with the people who utilize their program, and helpful to the 'nth' degree.  Good Luck to you!

    ~M~

    Do the right thing, ALWAYS
    ~Meg~
    rbryanhines
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    08/26/2008 2:12 PM
    "LOL, I can see why we have to argue with adjusters everyday."

    Your not gonna get anywhere making negative blanket statements.

    Your first post made it appear the adjuster's scope or software was around $6,000 off. Then you changed it when you shed some light on the fact that the adjuster did not allow for O&P. Which is not a scope or software issue. Until the facts of the loss are supplied your wasting your/our time.

    You originally asked a question but it seems the motive of your post was to enlighten the adjusting community of your opinions.
    Ray Hall
    Senior Member
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    Posts:2443


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    08/26/2008 3:23 PM

    Joe I know all the people who answered your question. give the zip code, show a roof sketch with measurements and a front photo.  I thought I read a differance of $6,000  or I would not have responded. A $600. differance between adjuster and roofer should never get this far up the road. You two get your heads into this and get it settled. I was just defending Power Claim and that was my intent. I do not show up anyone.

    Ray Hall
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    Posts:2443


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    08/26/2008 3:23 PM

    Joe I know all the people who answered your question. give the zip code, show a roof sketch with measurements and a front photo.  I thought I read a differance of $6,000  or I would not have responded. A $600. differance between adjuster and roofer should never get this far up the road. You two get your heads into this and get it settled. I was just defending Power Claim and that was my intent. I do not show up anyone.

    Ray Hall
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    Posts:2443


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    08/26/2008 3:48 PM

    Lesson to Joe Woolhouse. Always show the adjuster the roof diagram with measurements. Now a new topic many insurance campanys will except a complete roof job on a composition shingle as. R & R all shingles with LKQ. Many want a lower number on TO. The only add ons are roof turbines, power vent covers, BROKEN skylights, vent caps. NO PLUMBING JACKS OR CHIMNEY FLASHING. no new felt(unless), ridge vent(unless) metal edge its all in the replace rate.

    Public adjusters and roofers like your bunch statred all this add on crap, and xmate bought the whole package and some insurance companys want to pay as much as they can as well as the working adjusters on commission. But the largrest storm chaser roofers in the world will take an exactimate estimate with the diagram on the sheet without any O & P all day long. For that matter any estimate

    You do not want to hear the next paragraph and I will not print it.

    MJW
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    08/26/2008 7:05 PM
    Thanks for some of the kind words from some of you.

    Years in the past up until this year, We have written bids on a per square rate, everything included. On some jobs we did fine and others with lots of valleys and flashing we lost time and money. All the insurance companies wanted itemized bids, so this year, that is what I am doing. Everything that is damaged and needs to be replaced is a separate line item. Then we all know what is being done and at what rate. I feel this is the only fair way.

    Now, I see one set of paperwork come my way and it has everything lumped into one price for the roofing and it said powerclaim at the bottom. I tried to figure out what the problem was with the estimate, and thought I could get some good info here. Thanks to those of you who took me seriously and answered some of my questions.

    I just received another estimate from another adjuster on a different job. He was within $5, yes five dollars of my estimate! I feel like if he was here, I would hug him. That is the first one I have seen that is that close. If every job went that way and homeowners wouldn't turn us away because they want to "pocket some cash", I could actually make a decent living. :)
    HuskerCat
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    08/26/2008 10:56 PM

    Joe, if you took my words as unkind I apologize.  Anyone that knows me, or has read my posts on this site knows otherwise....although I can lean toward the warped side from time to time just for the sake of keeping a topic alive.  If I misread your initial post, OK.  But I'm not so sure, as pointed out by another poster.  My old eyes may play tricks on me, but not my memory to the best I can recall.   

    ALANJ
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    09/05/2008 1:58 PM
    Any estimate is only as good as the person entering the data.
    teolson
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    09/10/2008 9:51 PM
    It may be one of mine, though I don't think so since I have been paying $220-240 a square for a simple walk on roof. I do it all the time line Item $240 remove and replace, add a note (all inclusive, complete to code)then I will add $450 for dumpster. If it is high or steep I will add for that on a seperate line. I still get guys calling saying I didnt allow for Ice and Water etc. But I have 3-4 contractors in each area that will do it for that price. It is not a software problem.
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