2006 - Year of the Software Wars?
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2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/1/2006 3:20:17 PM
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johnpostava
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Seems some vendors are patenting their "technologies" and willing to let the lawyers get rich over common sense ideas (aka features):
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2005/Dec/1218796.htm
What do the end users (adjusters/contractors) think about this latest development?
BTW, happy new year to all of you!
_____________________________
John A. Postava, R.P.A.
President
SIMSOL Software, Inc.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/1/2006 3:49:54 PM
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mh0825
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In my personal (non software sales oriented) opinion, I think the industry would be entirely better off sharing ideas with one another. A collection of ideas between various Software Vendors would lead to a better adjusting program. There are features with every software that have their advantages.
I don't see great software arising without sharing ideas. While I can see certain features which can direct business towards a specific software, there are certain ideas and features that should be shared or common. How knit picky can you get about which features are yours?
John, I'm sure the development in this ordeal could hold bearing over future developments of your software. This leads me to a question for you... Does Simsol have features that are patented that would lead you to suit as **** has done?
I didn't see in the article where **** named the specific features in which there is a controversy over. Is it over something specific or is it on broader terms that they are bringing their claims from?
Chatting with Gale brought up something that I see as a must in all future software programs... I believe it was called "Open Standard" or something along these terms. I don't understand why a company would not want to have this as part of their software. It just seems that this would save everyone money in the end.
I believe, **** was a company that didn't want to participate in this. This just leads me to believe, **** wants to keep their software completely separate from others and are unwilling to share features and ideas with other companies to better the software industry.
It will be interesting to see further updates in this story and what the court decision will be. I'll step off my soap box now.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/1/2006 7:52:49 PM
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JGardner
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I'm curious to know what specific merits Xactware is asserting.
John, what types of features have been patented by Simsol and are common sense?
I'm sure you have certain features well protected and have kept your competitors closer than your friends when it comes to this issue.
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Jud
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/1/2006 8:13:15 PM
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newtonclaimstim
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Allstate of canada uses the the other prouduct maybe they are afraid of it getting into the US. Good Luck
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/2/2006 12:31:04 AM
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Johnd
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Jud,
The main feature of Simsol, which has not been granted a patent, and probably will not be duplicated by the other software companies is;
S E R V I C E T O T H E A D J U S T E R
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Beauty is only skin deep, BUT incompetence goes clear to the bone!
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/2/2006 7:37:57 AM
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bruceDynes
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I think one must consider a few realities.
First, the software companies spend a lot of R&D on developing a program. They need to recoup that and make a profit. They must continue that R&D if they are to stay competitive. If along the way they develop something that is unique and is patentable or copyrightable, they have the right to pursue the patent or copyright.
Second is that an open standard is sort of in place now. By that I mean every competitor in this market must have a data base that is accurate and the methodology for creating the estimate user friendly.
The adjusting/estimating software is a small market. Divide that by the number of programs out there and you can see why it is very competitive. Everyone is trying real hard to get an edge or advantage.
It would seem that pursuing the suit is a long and expensive proposition. They must think they have a case in order to justify the investment.
If you want to tilt at windmills, I think the companies specifying which specific software an adjuster must use to get work is unreasonable. It would seem that acceptance of three or four programs would be more sensible. Have one person in a company monitor the software vendors product to make certain the numbers are correct. Independent adjusters could use the software that they are comfortable with and “Giter Done”, so to speak. If they want the staff to use a specific program, that is their right.
What did they ever do when all the estimates were hand written?
Just my opinion.
Bruce
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Life is not a dress rehearsal
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/2/2006 10:41:36 AM
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MDC
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This year I had to use two different estimating software systems. One that I use daily and the other sporadically.
The CAT vendors I worked for this season had all their files downloaded, no paper, and those files were downloaded in a .pdf format and to the carrier. So who cares which estimating software one uses. They are not downloaded in the .esx, .sfw, etc., for the specific software in which the estimate was written, it is a .pdf. The carriers take the .pdf and transfer this into their claims management system.
The estimating software is a tool, so who really cares which four or five estimating system you use. The estimate is a means to an end to facilitate the closing of claims.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/2/2006 11:46:50 AM
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johnpostava
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It is not my place or position to speak of the merits of the case now pending in Michigan - that is up to the lawyers on both sides and ultimately the judge. Patenting technology is common in many tech industries. It's fairly easy and inexpensive these days to get a patent on a software "intellectual property". Its difficult and expensive to defend it.
Our company's "R&D" is being performed every day by the thousands of adjusters and contractors using our software. We don't have to spend a large sum of cash to find out what the industry needs. The one thing, however, we feel is vitally needed for P&C insurance carriers to compete and be profitable is an open standard in property claims and estimates - similar to what they now enjoy on the auto side of the shop. By open standard, we don't mean cost databases, we mean claim and estimate data. There are literally thousands of bits of information contained in property claims (structure repair, valuation and personal property) which can be data-mined by carriers to improve their workflows and business productivity and profitability. This data is literally "locked" in proprietary data formats among the popular computer estimating systems. The only way for carriers to see this data is to use data warehouses of the vendors - usually at a very high per-claim or transaction cost. In addition to the high cost, carriers are only allowed access to what the software vendor wants them to see. Carriers have no control over the present situation due to the imbalance of market share among the leading computer systems in the property arena.
Several computer estimating vendors, including our firm, offer XML outputs of their data (open, but not "standard"). Our file formats are different and may not constitute a "standard" but we are at least willing and open to sharing the data which is generated by our software and, in reality, the property of the carrier paying the bill. However, we are smaller players in our market and don't have the carrier user-base (yet, anyway) to significantly move the industry towards a complete and open standard. That movement must start and the carrier level.
Wouldn't it be great if you, as adjusters, could use whatever system you wanted to write up your claims and estimates and carriers would be able to accept the output of any system and be able to import that data directly into their own claims management and data-mining warehouses? That day is coming if only a few carrier-level claims executives start thinking for themselves and make a stand for the industry.
It is our hope that in the coming years, carriers will apply more pressure to all computer software vendors to open their systems and allow for complete sharing of property claim and estimate data - to the benefit of everyone (well, almost everyone).
Off the soapbox now and back to examining Katrina and Wilma closings...happy new year to all of you.
_____________________________
John A. Postava, R.P.A.
President
SIMSOL Software, Inc.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/2/2006 1:13:40 PM
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mh0825
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I think you could tell that to Xactimate in 100 different languages and they would still act like they don't know what you're talking about. I completely agree with you though. I can hardly wait for the day I'm allowed to use Simsol for State Farm claims, LOL.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/2/2006 6:55:41 PM
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Gale
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It is an exciting move and time will tell which party or parties will benefit the most out of this action. Symbility Solutions is the only adjusting software vendor truly attempting a creditable frontal assault on Xactimate today. As a guess from where Symbility seems to be in technology and market share today they can crack the Xactimate nut once and for all if they have the required staying power.
While MSB is the leader in property valuation solutions today in the US they have stumbled greatly in the area of adjusting software over the past 10-15 years and according to some post on CADO (even by MSB insiders) it seems adjusting software wise they are in shambles even today.
In light of MDA of Canada (the new owners of the old MSB) is not likely to wish to be party to the issues rumored concerning the adjusting software arm (IC) of MSB I would not be surprised to see MDA purchase Symbility Solutions so they can ditch the bad press coming from the IC side of MSB and move forward without having to drag legacy software solutions forward or start over at ground zero.
At least MDA and Symbility share a mother country and MDA seems to have deep pockets where 10 or 20 million dollars sounds like small numbers to become number one in another niche. Personally I feel MDA will either ditch the property adjusting software business or find a solution that can lead them to becoming number one in that industry.
< Message edited by Gale -- 1/2/2006 10:35:21 PM >
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/3/2006 1:10:17 AM
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JGardner
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Quoting Mr. Postava: "Wouldn't it be great if you, as adjusters, could use whatever system you wanted to write up your claims and estimates and carriers would be able to accept the output of any system and be able to import that data directly into their own claims management and data-mining warehouses?"
That would be fantastic, but woudn't that make it harder for a software vendor to put their thumbprint on the work turned into the carrier? Would this be wishful thinking?
Sounds similar to a major reason why colleges won't switch to a playoff system.* Hopefully, a software switch such as this won't be that difficult. If this so-called thumb print is lost, I would safely bet that the large software players would create much resistance against those without any carrier user-base.
*Warning: I do not intend to create another subject within this thread and will not accept the blame if it does occur. Please seek a sports forum elswhere on the web if you wish to discuss the pros/cons of the BCS system ;-).
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Jud
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/3/2006 1:18:00 AM
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JGardner
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Without commenting on the merits of the case, could you give us an example(s) of a few technologies that Simsol or others have patented? Perhaps with a few examples, those viewing this thread would be more prone to post their opinions.
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Jud
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/3/2006 1:26:45 AM
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Catmandale
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I, for one, am extremely curious as to what patented technologies Symbility has supposedly infringed upon. Having had an opportunity to participate in an exhibition of the product, I can tell you it's not the Sketch portion...unless Xactware is pissed because Symbility got it right. With this software, you are able to input dimensions directly to a diagram using a bluetooth connection and a Disto.
My curiousity is piqued partially because I believe Symbility uses the Craftsman databases...so it's not the pricing.
The Symbility model uses a web based payment model - with no software purchase cost to the adjuster, the carrier pays. That's probably what ticked them off!
I wonder if we will ever know what the whole story is?
Dale
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/3/2006 10:55:00 AM
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johnpostava
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FYI,
Jim Loveland, founder of xact, passed away last year. The company is now being run by his surviving family memebers.
_____________________________
John A. Postava, R.P.A.
President
SIMSOL Software, Inc.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/3/2006 11:42:31 PM
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JGardner
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Gale, thanks for the articles about other software-patent issues, but I, along with others I'm sure, would be limited to posting baseless opinions until the actual merits of this particular case are revealed.
From that article and what is currently known, this is just a dispute over a company's marketing strategy, nothing more.
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Jud
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/4/2006 12:28:22 PM
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Gale
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Judson, I agree with you that it is nothing more based on the info of that single article but we will know more in time. Should Xactimate lose their case and also Symbility win its countersuit against Xactimate it could greatly accelerate the success of Symbility and the demise of Xactimate.
Debbie thanks for the Claims Guide link. That link supports the links below that seems to indicate to me that Symbility will crack (smash) the Xactimate nut in the future. I estimate the lawsuit by Xactimate will have the effect of moving Symbility three years ahead in market mind share of where it would have been without Xactimate’s help. Until this suit I did not even know the founder of Xactimate had passed way and that was huge news that directly impacts our company. With the event of the lawsuit now Xactimate’s every move is under the microscope of the entire industry.
Xactimate is taking actions similar to what DDS and Boeckh did at the end of their corporate lives. As mentioned on chat last night Xactimate I have it on good authority that their legal counsel is also attacking a more established adjusting software vendor as well as Symbility. The funny part is this attack on the second vendor tends to support the Symbility countersuit charge of abuse of process. This could lead to Xactimate finding itself defending its legal actions in Michigan against both a Canadian and an US based competitor. So much for the divide and conquer approach, just take them all on at the same time and place.
http://www.ccnmatthews.com/news/releases/show.jsp?action=showRelease&actionFor=544645 JUNE 8, 2005 - 08:00 ET
Automated Benefits Corp. Announces Symbility Launch with ServiceMaster of Canada Limited
http://www.quote.com/qc/news/story.aspx?symbols=QCNEWS:0&story=200512071323_BWR__BW5353 7 December 2005, 08:23am ET
Automated Benefits Corp.: United States District Court for the Central District of Utah Dismisses Patent Lawsuit Against Symbility Solutions
http://www.techfinance.ca/m-topnews+news+tnid-415-tnd-20050202.html Tue, Jan 3, 2006, 2006
Kaleil Isaza Tuzman Joins Automated Benefits Board
http://www.autoben.com/Shareholder.pdf
Eric Embacher, President of Symbility, and I first worked together 8 years ago while both building our own independent companies. At that time, my company, Insource Limited, assisted Eric’s company, Qirra Custom Software Inc., to develop and market insurance software. In the years that followed, both of our respective businesses successfully grew and were acquired by larger, USA based firms.
Note: I believe Qirra was the adjusting software package that ran on top of Access that Prism (preferred contractor program owned by Crawford?) purchased from Eric EmBacher in the mid to late 90’s.
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RE: 2006 - Year of the Software Wars? - 1/4/2006 2:03:31 PM
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newtonclaimstim
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That is or was the PTC contractor program used by Allstate and other carriers. They provided a seperate estimating software and reporting system. I did not know the tie in
between Crawford for sure but did have an idea when it seemed they bought system.
or something as the name came up. Good Luck
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