Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window?
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Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 6:01:39 PM
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PvtNvestigator
Posts: 120
Joined: 7/26/2005
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I know that we have a lot of experience construction people on this site. I am looking for glass replacement advice. What is the procedure for replacing the outer glass on a aluminum framed, single hung, dual pane window. Just looking for technique not should I do it or not. Thanks in advance to any that have knowledge and experience in this repair.
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William "Bill" Roberts
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 6:21:21 PM
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tesseract
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/1/2006
Home base: Denver
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Bill,
If there is a sticker attached to the inside track, it should tell you the size and manufacturer of window. If so, contact manufacturer and supply them with requested numbers.
Otherwise, you will need to determine how the window was assembled, remove the surrounds holding the glass in place and measure the dimensions of existing glass (including overall glass thickness).
BTW you want to replace the insulated glass as a unit, not just the outer pane as they are sealed units.
If you need more info...shoot me an email
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 6:32:52 PM
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Wes
Posts: 622
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Home base: Deerfield Beach, FL
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I was also under the impression that sealed thermal double pane windows have a layer of gas between the glass, argon or nitrogen or something to that effect. It filters out the UV and the pressure prevents fogging which is currently being discussed in another thread here on CADO.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 6:34:54 PM
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PvtNvestigator
Posts: 120
Joined: 7/26/2005
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Thanks for the info. This is one of my rentals and there is no i.d. info on the window. I am stuck with either replacing the the complete window unit or figuring a way to replace the glass alone. I really need to know if I can get another piece back in the frame once I remove or tear out the broken piece. This pane is on the fixed upper sash if that matters.
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William "Bill" Roberts
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 7:07:42 PM
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aporco
Posts: 124
Joined: 4/21/2004
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tesseract,
Are you a glazer? I asking because in another thread I didn't post about paying for fogged windows. I have always paid for fogged windows if the insured says they weren't like that before the storm (Was that Pandora's box I just heard opening?) because there has been damage to the window. The breaking of the seal constitutes damage, my friends. If you're not paying for this, you cheating the insured. If you were told by the company to not pay for this, they are cheating the insured. BTW, I've NEVER had a file kicked backed with a request to change this.
Before Pandora and her horde come a charging at me: Most policies state that they pay for direct physical damage. If wind pushes so hard that it breaks the seal but doesn't break the glass, that is still damage. Show me a policy that defines the size of an opening. If you feel the insured is lying about the windows, that this is a pre-existing condition, report it to your supervisor so they can decide to forward it to SIU or tell you to pay it.
So tesseract am I right or wrong with my thinking on this? Thanks. AP
< Message edited by aporco -- 8/14/2006 7:10:26 PM >
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 9:20:07 PM
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PvtNvestigator
Posts: 120
Joined: 7/26/2005
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Always is a strong inclusive word especially used in junction with paying for "fogged" windows. I can agree with your analogy that sustained wind pressure on the flat surface of a window could break loose the seal bond. I have thought this for years. However, when the age, condition, and grade of the window is not taken into account that is "cheating" the carrier. There is more than enough documentation that repeatedly shows that dual pane windows will fail. I even read one article tonight that stated that they almost all fail within 15 years of installation. The manufacturers recoqnize this fact with the makers of premium windows offering lifetime warranties against this condition. With that being said, just why are we talking about this on this particular thread? My other thread addresses "foggy" windows....:) I just wanted to know if anyone has replaced just the outer pane before, which, by the way, is not fogging and has BB holes.
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William "Bill" Roberts
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 10:34:43 PM
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tiwiii
Posts: 116
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Aporca,
Windows won't typically fog in one or two weeks after a storm, but you could see evidence of moisture.
Always is a strong word. There needs to be some evidence of wind or another covered loss. Every claim should be handled on it's merits. There is no perfect fit for every scenario. Whether the window is filled with argon gas, which in theory lessens sound transfer, the vacuum in the double pane unit along with drying crystals keep the window from fogging.
The fact is there are several scenarios that could cause the windows to fog. Once the seal is broken, whether it is from a covered loss or wear and tear or any other non-covered event, the window will fog. Moisture drops inside of a double-pane window is good evidence before the fog appears that the seal is broken. Now find out why?
Lastly, the double pane window unit has to be replaced as a unit. I do not mean the whole window including the frame, I mean re-glazing. The good news is that it really does not cost as much as replacing the whole window.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/14/2006 10:53:39 PM
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Big Bob
Posts: 187
Joined: 10/4/2005
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Bill, the most cost effective restoration besides duct tape over the BB holes would be remove top sash, and take it to a glass shop. They will remove glass from sash frame and replace with both sides new glass, properly sealed. They will reinstall in the sash frame. If this is medium size window $ 40 to $60 bucks. Making a double pane insulated glass window is not a DIY project.
BB holes ? sounds like vandal stuff. Any other BB damage? Hole in the siding? If the upper sash will not remove from frame you may need to remove frame from house inorder to remove sash from frame. Since the glass company will need a day to get you in and out if you are lucky than you will need to board up the window for security and be sure it is weather tight. Of course depending on how the window is installed you may have to try to detach and reset the trim. A piece of trim could break and you will need to drive to two or three stores to match it. Besure to check to see if you have any of the paint or better yet take a piece of the broken faded trim and have the paint store colar match it. The minimum purchase is one gallon for this sevice. I hope you didn't mar the wall siding while detaching the trim or you may need to paint that elevation corner to corner.
OR see if your kids have any of those cute butterfly stickers. They could cover the BB holes and look better than duct tape . Did you say this was a rental? Sir you have been working hard and I thought you could use a smile break.
Best of Luck.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 12:03:35 AM
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kittycat
Posts: 86
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Hey Bill,
The stationary pane of glass is held in place just like the operating pane. What holds them in is a plastic channel. These channels are the color of the frame and periodocally degrade with uv light. You may purchase replacement channels at Home Depot or Loew's or simular stores. These channels are sold in set lengths and are cut to fit using a razor knife. This is for replacement/repairs on OLDER manufactured insulated windows.
Should you choose to remove the pane, then you will have to break the seal of the bead of adhesive that glues the glass to the metal seperater bar that is sandwitched between the panes of glass. You would use a razor for this. Now all that black adhesive (on older models...newer one most likely will have something else) it has to be removed in order to caulk on new adhesive to glue the glass panes back together, sandwitching the divider bar. It is this adhesive that creats a seal which will prevent moisture from penetrating the inside of the two panes of glass. By the way, if you damage the divider bar, you will be going to a glazier- glass company and buying it from them. You will have to use butal rubber caulk because original product not sold on the streets retail. Of course you have to have your measurements and go get the glass cut...FYI you have a tollerance of 1/8 of an in. for the glass size. Check the return policy on cut glass.
I just installed new windows on my house and what I noticed about them...they don't have those plastic channels holding in the pane, so I will be having to utilize a glass company to reglaze my windows should I have some kind of replacement issues with them.
Now reglazing in the DFW area is roughly the cost of the window off the shelf at big box home improvement store...not remove/replace, not tear out/install (of the window)...just the cost of the window or what ever the glass companys min. charges are.
Bill, it's going to be a real big pain to get this done as a DIY project. I reccommend you get out the phone book and call a professional w/warranty and have them come out and measure, go back to shop and manufacture and come back out and install. After it's all said and done with your work is done and you can have a good cold glass of ice tea.
My best, Robin
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 12:10:49 AM
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kittycat
Posts: 86
Joined: 6/15/2006
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I forgot to tell you the glass company just removes the glass panel, not the whole window frame. R
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 1:01:04 AM
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tesseract
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/1/2006
Home base: Denver
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Bill,
I would tend to lean toward replacement of IG (insulated glass) unit.as it may be difficult to find a new window to reasonably match other windows appearance. You may find a glass company that makes IGs and can measure and install the glass. Older windows tend to have less space between glass than newer units and the overall thickness of glass and space is important.
If you really want to just replace the outside pane, like Robin mentioned, you are in for not just a potentially miserable experience but possibly a brutal exercise in futility if a quality repair is required.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 9:15:44 AM
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johnpostava
Posts: 170
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Home base: Orlando, FL
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I was told years ago from a good friend who sells windows in Florida that double-panes are manufactured to handle hurricane force winds for hours. He told me the seals fail due to the drop in pressure during a hurricane where the pressure between the panes becomes greater than the pressure outside the windows and the seals fail from within the panes.
And, yes, they are repairable even if they have a vaccuum between the panes - if you have the right equipment.
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John A. Postava, R.P.A.
President
SIMSOL Software, Inc.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 9:38:06 AM
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sbeau4014
Posts: 167
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Wherever The Wind Blows, USA
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I didn't see any mention of it previously, but a lot of manufacturers will place into the metal framing identification information on the windows. This is usually on the inside of the window (between the panes), and will include the sizing, model #, etc. If you are like me and have to put things on your nose to read anything, I can tell you that reading this information can be very difficult.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 9:49:04 AM
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PvtNvestigator
Posts: 120
Joined: 7/26/2005
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Oh heck...I think that I will bust out the out pane and see if they notice... No seriously, thanks for all the great input. I will let you know what me and Jacob (my hammer) end of doing. This is why I like this site!
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William "Bill" Roberts
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 11:33:28 AM
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kittycat
Posts: 86
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Be sure to wear your safety glasses and safety gloves. Many of us would miss you Bill.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/15/2006 2:38:55 PM
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tesseract
Posts: 16
Joined: 2/1/2006
Home base: Denver
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John,
Your friend is correct with the assertion of failure from within. The space between the glass will change significantly in larger windows between a cold winter night and a hot summer afternoon. Manufacturers that ship their windows to areas of varying altitudes often incorporate a small breather tube that is removed upon installation after (several years ago) a tractor trailer load that came from the mid-west went over the Rockies where the combination of 10,000 foot air and truck vibrations reduced the load to a worthless pile of broken glass and empty window frames.
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RE: Replacing Outer Glass on Double Pane Window? - 8/18/2006 6:43:39 PM
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PvtNvestigator
Posts: 120
Joined: 7/26/2005
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Okay...job completed! On removing the IG unit, the undamaged glass (inner) cracked so I took the whole unit out in pieces with a little help from my hammer (wearing gloves, of course, kittycat). Because this is one of my rentals that I am selling and because of the fact that I could not find any i.d. info, I had a glass company cut me 1/4" plate glass to fit and I installed it. It looks great, although I am sure the R-value is kind of dismal. However, I fulfilled the buyer's request to replace the the broken window glass. Thanks for everyone's help.
_____________________________
William "Bill" Roberts
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