Xactimate vs. Symbility
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Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/22/2006 5:01:14 PM
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pvihc
Posts: 7
Joined: 1/24/2006
Home base: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline
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Xactware (et. al) vs. Symbility.....
I tried symbility (I hope this gets moved to the symbility discussion, but for some reason I can't post there -- and I can't take waiting any more).
I'm a regular Xact. user. I've tried Powerclaim, messed around with Simsol and Integra, and frankly, I see good and bad qualities of all of them. So, I decided I'd try Symbility's "free" trial.
Well, first of all, it's not free. There is no conceivable way to look at the software without paying $100. They call it a set-up fee (or registration fee), and they say they'll give you your first 20 claims free of charge (there deal is they charge you $5/claim, not a monthly fee). So, I tried it. I set up a regular claim.
One feature I liked was the ability to easily rename a room upon creation (that from an Xactimate user, some of you other software people already had that feature). So I began estimating items, starting with the roof. I was horrified (literally) when I tried to estimate shingles. There selection was for "Shingles" 20,30,40, year. Thats it. No architectural, 3-tab, T-lock, etc. Just shingles. If they have these essential high-dollar items not broken down in an estimate, how many other errors are there? My initial opinion is that there price lsit set-up was poor. Which is ironic, because they are using teh same price list some other companies are using. Can't quite figure that out.
Needless to say, even if I over looked that, I was still not that impressed. I was evaluating the software compared to Xactimate for use on a Tablet PC. I'm going to try Xactimate, but Powerclaim possibly looks better.
Moving on, I checked out there "Forms" section. I took a glance at the Proof of Loss form. Looks great, if your insurance carrier will except POL's with the words "FEMA" and "Homeland Security" at the top Oh, there's no way to change those headings. How did I find that out?? I contacted technical support. They did say they would create a form for me, if I needed it. There would be a charge (fee), though. You believe that???? They want ME to pay to have THEM create standard insurance forms.
Needless to say, the story gets better! So I contacted customer support, and requested a $95 refund. Figuring that I had actually tried to use there software for 1 estimate, I would pay them for that. Guess what, no refund. I contacted my credit card company to see what they can do, but I'm doubtful.
I know we all get into debates about what software is best. Some prefer Xactimate, some Powerclaim, and others prefer yet more types. The point is, all of them will give you a free trial, and even though they have there differences, they still produce good estimates. Symbility is not the case in either of the above examples.
I would HIGHLY recommend no one else try this software. And, if you still have an inclining to try it, I have 19 estimates left on my "trial" version that I paid for...that i will never use. Contact me, if you want to try one.
Alan
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/23/2006 1:09:23 PM
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Gale
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Murray, KY
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Alan, I was having some problems posting as well and I looked up and saw I was logged in as a Guest. I had somehow lost my cookie I guess and I had to go look up my password and log back into the site. It had been about 7 months since the last time I had to manually log in.
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/23/2006 1:32:18 PM
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mh0825
Posts: 587
Joined: 8/31/2005
Home base: Gainesville, FL
Status: offline
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They charged me $100 too but I received a refund. I didn't use the product or even download it at all though. I suppose that is the difference. From the sound of it, it appears I should be happy.
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/23/2006 5:01:21 PM
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katadj
Posts: 692
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: New Hope, PA
Status: offline
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There are 19 additional claims available here , from another interested but disappointed adjuster.
No free lunch, thats for sure. No great system, that for sure, no support, thats for sure.
Our choices remain the same, Xactware, Powerclaim, Integraclaim, Simsol. All of which are time proven, carrier and vendor acceptable programs. The more things Change, the more they stay the same. Oh Well............................................
_____________________________
"Excellence often first appears as error. It is only in retrospect that wisdom emerges from ignorance and success from failure." Abraham Lincoln
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/23/2006 6:15:30 PM
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trader
Posts: 1203
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Houston, TX
Status: offline
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Just looked at the old callous on the left side of middle finger on my right hand, which has been shrinking since 1989 when I purchased that old DOS program and stopped hand writing those 40-50 page flood estimates.
That was bad enough, but the rewrite was pure torture.
< Message edited by trader -- 5/23/2006 6:17:07 PM >
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/24/2006 6:13:53 PM
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rtheoret
Posts: 1
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline
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Hi Alan,
I am following-up the telephone call we had today with some detail in regards to this newsgroup post and would like to add some clarity to this thread.
As a newer provider of Claims adjusting solutions we are very focused on providing value to our prospects and customers both in evaluating our solution and the experience in the field.
As you know, here at Symbility we offer a transaction based pricing model, we do not sell software the traditional way but rather let our customers pay on a per claim basis for the use of this solution. For this transaction fee (in a field adjusters case, $5 per claim) our users get the full functionality of mobile claims, our pen-based mobile application for claim estimating which includes technical support and all product upgrades.
Our response to market demands for transaction-based pricing (pay per use only model) necessitates the need for a small minimum claim volume to provide the fully functional application in a production deployment (which shows the simplicity of the installation and full deployment). The fee of $100 is based on the $5/claim for the next 20 claims. You might ask how is this different that traditional Software? The difference is that we offer a service which requires infrastructure for every usage (think of your telephone service provider—you must pay for at least a month; you do not “trial” that service) whereas traditional software only needs to ship a CD at no additional infrastructure cost. Our policy (highlighted by the notices during the registration process) is that this fee is non refundable which in most cases is a non-issue as most evaluations continue beyond the first 20 claims.
Alan, you mention that you were horrified to see only a single item in the database for "shingles". Our materials pricing Database (provided by Craftsman) is far more complete and in drilling down under shingles in the "Roofing" category we have available:
- Wood shakes (including handsplit and resawn, straight split, tapersplit)
- Aluminum shingles (including multiple thicknesses)
- Asphalt shingles (20 yr to 40 yr., plus T-lock, diamond, hexagonal)
- Laminated asphalt shingles Cedar shingles (including blue label and red label)
- Flat clay tile shingles
- Fiber and cement shingles
- Galvanized steel shingles in multiple thicknesses
- Granular-coated metal tile shingles
Of note: other solutions that you mentioned in this thread are also based on the craftsman DB of which we have incorporated the same roofing data elements. In addition to the standard Craftsman data set we will be providing to our customers in our next major release a tool called the “database manager” which allows users to update, create and manage pricing elements. This flexibility would allow you to create any materials that do not meet your specific estimate needs. (eg: a region specific material or regional pricing change required)
Lastly, the topic of the forms: In our solution today, we have incorporated the core set of standard FEMA forms based on customer requests. In reviewing the conversation you had with our technical support department I understand that you were told that until our Forms Editor feature is available we could offer to create custom forms at a fee. Althought we do offer custom form creation for a fee, our plans are to enable users to create or modify forms themselves to leverage their data collected in the field.
As an update, we have also received additional enhancement request for those FEMA form structures without the FEMA headings and labels which we will be offering soon, and look forward to announcing our Forms Editor tool which will allow users to customize any standard forms or create new ones with a simple desktop-publisher-like interface.
I apologize for any of the misunderstandings and hope that our responsiveness, follow-up and additional details will provide more comfort with our solution which we firmly believe is revolutionizing how our unique property claims are managed the most productive, time efficient mobile application that allows our customers to create, communicate and resolve claims all at the loss site.
Thanks,
Rod
Rod Theoret
VP Product Marketing
Symbility Solutions Inc.
1-866-SYMBILITY (796-2454), x108
www.symbilitysolutions.com
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/25/2006 1:09:27 PM
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mh0825
Posts: 587
Joined: 8/31/2005
Home base: Gainesville, FL
Status: offline
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Well dang... I'm impressed. Go Symbility!
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/30/2006 3:33:54 AM
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Gale
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Murray, KY
Status: offline
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Rod, I think it will help with PR issues that you have clearly stated that you do charge to try your estimating solution where as in the current model is to offer it free to adjusters. Keep in mind that CADO is mainly made up of adjusters from the CAT adjusting industry that can start up 100+ files within the first 30 days of an assignment. If they are asked to pay $500 (100x$5) instead of getting if for free or starting from $79 per month for estimating software there is likely to be some that fail at first glance to miss the value of your per claim charge.
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/30/2006 5:45:05 AM
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rickhans
Posts: 65
Joined: 5/8/2005
Home base: Dallas, Tx.
Status: offline
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Nothing is said here as to how Symbility knows how many claims are written therefore I assume that my computer would have to be on the internet working off of their server to do a claim. Is that how it works? I won't use any software of any kind that requires me to be on the internet doing any application other than to just download data to update my local computer's database. I do my estimating on my desktop which is never on the internet, then transfer the claim to my laptop to email and as a backup in case my desktop cpu crashes. I use a memory stick instead of networking to prevent any chance of a virus getting into my main computer. I don't know if that can be done with Xact or not. I also use my adjusting software to do remodeling estimates and project plans on properties that I own. How would that work with Symbility? Is it flexible enough to have multiple pricing levels or the ability to split labor out from materials?
I would also object to ever paying on a per adjustment basis, at lest not knowing how they count them. In Missouri I received several claims where one claim number had multiple properties requiring me to submit them as one claim but by writing a separate claim on each property. How would Symbility charge for that? My personal preference is to purchase a license for whatever software I use with no re-occurring costs, then purchase a subscription for database updates if offered. I use EZBid as I have mentioned before on this forum, and like it. However, there is no way to get price updates or regional prices so I have to update the prices myself.
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/30/2006 2:18:14 PM
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Medulus
Posts: 367
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Lake Ariel, PA
Status: offline
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Rod,
After reading the posts in this thread so far, my primary response is that I certainly hope no one requires use of your program any time soon. It appears that neither the software, the pricing, nor the "customer service" is user friendly to date. Promises of what the program will be able to do sometime in the future are not impressive until they are actually incorporated into the program.
One of the main problems, however, is that mentioned by Gale. It is not unusual for me to work, if not close, 100 to 120 claims in a month while working some catastrophes. The cost of using your program for one month would then exceed the cost of using some of the other programs for eight months. No thanks. Too many independents go down in flames by paying too little attention to the cost side.
< Message edited by Medulus -- 5/31/2006 12:41:46 PM >
_____________________________
Steve Ebner
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/30/2006 5:43:53 PM
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johnpostava
Posts: 170
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Orlando, FL
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I agree with Steve, the per-claim pricing model does not work well for cat and independent adjusters. If you are successful in our business you just handle too many claims. Of course, if the price were significantly lower it might become more attractive to the IA.
Cat adjusters also need their adjusting tools on the PC, especially when wireless and broadband connections are down. I do believe Symbility allows you to see your estimate, just not print it until you connect (I am sure their representative monitoring this thread will correct me if I am wrong). This however, would be a problem in a cat event when the carrier or IA vendor requires you to leave an estimate with the policyholder.
We began charging per claim fees for some of our new web-based applications and have met with some resistance from the industry - mixed results really. Claim managers want to know what the software is going to cost so they can accurately budget for the service. It seems the smaller the carrier (i.e. less claims) the more they are willing to pay a per-claim fee.
That not withstanding however, it seems our main competitor can charge almost whatever per-claim fee they like and the carriers pay and pay and pay. That's what occurs when you have an almost monopolistic situation in any given industry. The carriers pay and the IA's that service those insurance companies have no choice but to pay the fees (and turn around and recoup those fees in their service bills). The situation will change but who knows when...
Back in the days, we were the first adjusting software to charge a monthly fee for the product. At the time, the few companies that were out there would sell their packages for 2-3K and then burden the user with maintenance fees. It took a while but we were successful with the "one monthly fee" concept and one by one the others followed. I would like to see Symbility make some headway in the per-claim pricing model. I believe the pay-as-you-go model works in more places in our business than it doesn't - as long as the price is right. Let's hope they can be responsive enough to keep the IA and cat adjuster in mind in their future pricing models.
_____________________________
John A. Postava, R.P.A.
President
SIMSOL Software, Inc.
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 5/30/2006 7:10:11 PM
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pvihc
Posts: 7
Joined: 1/24/2006
Home base: Minneapolis, MN
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Rick --
Symbility appears to allow you to write an estimate without connecting to the Internet, but it (symbility) doesn't appear to like to do that. The Symbility solution appears to prefer the 1. Receive claims from the carrier 2. Download the claims to you (the adjuster) 3. Adjuster writes claim while connected to the Internet 4. Adjuster sends claims up to symbility, where the company can look/review/kick back/etc.
I really wasn't too excited about this approach either, but it seemed there was a way to bypass the "system" and write estimates without being connected to the Internet.
And, I can only speak for xactimate, but you can "transfer" data however you want; to another computer, through the Xactcentral system, etc. etc.
One of the things I found that works well for backing up files is to purchase an external USB hard drive (I think it was about $150 for a lot of gigs -- 40 of 60 I think but cant recall). I attach that to my computer (only temporarily) and copy all of my files to it. Then disconnect it. Solves a lot of problems for me. Plus I dont have piles of burnt-cd's laying around.
Alan
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 6/12/2006 9:44:05 AM
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Branka
Posts: 4
Joined: 5/31/2006
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The $100 "start-up" fee provides the ability to process 20 claims, plus unlimited time to experiment with the software. We feel that well within the first 20 claims will a new user be able to decide whether Symbility is right for them. So, it's clear for everyone, there is no software to buy and we don't charge a monthly fee per user/installation...the system is $5 per claim, which includes unlimited technical support and perpetual software upgrades (which are very frequent - major new functionality every 8 to 12 weeks on average). It should be noted that the $5 fee for processing a claim includes working with as many files related to that claim - therefore, an unlimited number of estimates, forms, diagrams, etc, within the claim.
_____________________________
Branka B. Moore
Marketing Manager
Symbility Solutions Inc.
1-866-SYMBILITY (796-2454), x108
www.symbilitysolutions.com
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 6/12/2006 10:39:59 AM
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Branka
Posts: 4
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Rickhans, a firewall and antivirus software might help your fear of constant Internet connection. However, I see you do connect to the Internet frequently because you send and receive email messages...Symbility works the exact same way. You don't need to be connected constantly, only when you want to send and receive data (a "synchronize" button commences the send/receive and usually takes about a minute or less). You receive data to the mobile claims application when downloading a claim assignment sent by an insurance company or a claim file that you've created, and you upload data to send the claim file to the insurance company or someone else like a contractor. Essentially, Symbility replaces email for claim files (and there are some good reasons to do that, but I'll save that for another thread). If you don't wish to take advantage of electronic transmission of claim files and instead want to use PDFs and email, then you only need to quickly synchronize mobile claims once (this lets our servers know you have a new claim file and initiates the transaction fee). The entire balance of the time spent with the claim file can be spent disconnected from the Internet if you wish.
I understand your hesitation with the pay-per-claim pricing model, but at least consider some of the benefits to this and our reasons for choosing to price this way (actually the main reason was that everyone we talked to in the early days emphatically supported this idea). First, it allows you to easily allocate your technology cost to each claim. Secondly, by dispensing with traditional licensing and copy-protection restrictions it provides you ultimate flexibility in how and where you use the software. Because the Symbility software is freely downloadable and can be installed on any computer and used by any user, there is no need to license multiple instances for multiple computers/users in the event they may be needed. That means that instead of needing to maintain a license for those times when you're not using it much (or at all) you can keep the software installed and pay for it only when it's used. Third, it keeps the investment low - there's no software to buy or licensing committments to make.
To answer your question, yes Symbility permits multiple pricing levels and can easily split labor, materials, equipment and market conditions. Email us at sales@symbilitysolutions.com if you'd like to see a sample of a claim file hardcopy.
_____________________________
Branka B. Moore
Marketing Manager
Symbility Solutions Inc.
1-866-SYMBILITY (796-2454), x108
www.symbilitysolutions.com
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 6/12/2006 10:49:58 AM
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Branka
Posts: 4
Joined: 5/31/2006
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Steve, you can't solely look at the cost of the system for those 100 to 120 claims, and as an independent I'm certain you must follow by this philosophy. First of all, when paying only per-claim an "expensive" month like this would be balanced out by an "inexpensive" month when you handle only 6 claims (maybe you go on vacation or claim activity is low). Secondly, there are further cost savings when your company requires multiple software licenses to handle the claim volume. We don't require you to license multiple copies and restrict you from installing each on a single computer. Even so, even in situations where a customer would pay more in a year for Symbility than other software, the cost difference is more than balanced out by the efficiency gains from being able to create estimates while surveying the damage and complete most claims before leaving the site (eliminating the need to return to an office with paper notes and then build an estimate). The pricing model is based around the idea that your time is worth money - a lot of money. The analogy here is like computers vs. paper. Jim doesn't own a computer, preferring to do everything manually by hand on paper. His investment and ongoing costs are extremely low...John, on the other hand, uses a computer and printer so he can automate all the same processes as Jim. John's investment is huge and he has ongoing costs for ink, technical support and upgrades. Jim and John both get paid based on how many claims they process, and John processes significantly more because of the efficiencies gained from his technology. The bottom line is, in some situations, Symbility is a less expensive solution, and in some cases, it is not. In every case though, when you consider the time saved through efficiency, you get more return on investment.
_____________________________
Branka B. Moore
Marketing Manager
Symbility Solutions Inc.
1-866-SYMBILITY (796-2454), x108
www.symbilitysolutions.com
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RE: Xactimate vs. Symbility - 6/12/2006 11:56:55 AM
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Gale
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/19/2004
Home base: Murray, KY
Status: offline
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Branka, nothing is simple or clear if money is involved I have learned. :)
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