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Last Post 09 Jul 2008 03:58 AM by Mike Kunze. 163 Replies.
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Mike KunzeUser is Offline
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04 Apr 2007 06:43 AM  
It seems to me that Mr Lott has confused himself with Thomas Lott of the old Okie Sooners and the triple option wishbone.  So far, he's pulled it out of the fullback's belly and right now is either going to have to run or pitch to the trailing back.
Gale HawkinsUser is Offline
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04 Apr 2007 07:37 AM  

Steve like many perhaps I typically never open the policy because by the time it arrives something else is on my mind so the plain wording efforts of Mr. Lott is lost on me. If I have a loss then I can pull it out and play dumb. J Seriously insurance is something few are interested in until after the loss it seems. I sometimes wonder if we do not give Mr. Lott more credit than he is due. I just took his remark about they have not contacted him but he as contacted them a few times since as trying to being a smart donkey but again I take too much stuff at face value I am told.

 

For a while I though most of what I was hearing about the claims issues of Katrina, Isabel, etc where basically without merit but having gotten started on all the articles the Debbie posted has got me to thinking I know so very little about this industry. In the article at http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/16932452.htm entitled Will Rigsbys be held in contempt? Federal judge to hold hearing today was an eye opener.

Still with all of these stories making news I have to think/want to think they are isolated cases by somehow motivated employees. I know claims managers that would fire any adjuster supporting the abuse of an insured yet for this to happen over and over in a company makes one think the VP of Ethics is not doing his or her job very well.

 

peter burchUser is Offline
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04 Apr 2007 03:15 PM  
I remember the wordings when I started. The words were tricky but the entire policy was on one page, both sides. Then they introduced replacement cost and plain language. Now it is not uncommon for the policy to be a 60 + page booklet. I remember in California, a company trying to exclude mold by adding extra exclusions to the ammendment to the exclusions. When you leave the door open for people to claim they are confused or didn't understand, don't alway figure on your lawyers to extridite you. To me this seems a lawsuit motivated by desperation and convient memory.
Still sliding down the razorblade of life.
Steve EbnerUser is Offline
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04 Apr 2007 05:02 PM  
Apparently the good folks of Mississippi have elected someone to the Senate who cannot so much as read a plain language insurance policy, or is so behind the times he still thinks the old one page policies apply ( although a couple companies doing business in the south do still write those policies and sell them as an attachment to their life insurance policies), or is willing to simply pander to the public without doing any research of even a basic nature. And, apparently the good folks of Mississippi are willing to have their senator do an end run around the separation of powers that leaves such things as insurance regulation as a power reserved to the states because it exceeds the limited powers granted to Congress in the constitution.

And apparently, we are willing to accept such a senator as one of the leaders of his party in the Congress. And some wonder why I and the rest of the country continue to become more disillusioned with our politicians.

An additional concern in changing the language of the policy is that the current language has a body of law defining many of the term used in the policy. A complete revision means a new round of lawsuits as insurance companies and attorneys fight over the meaning of the new words and whether an ambiguity on the disclaimer of the first page in large bold letters takes precedent over a more explicit explanation later in the policy. And who pays for all the attorney and court costs of all the legal wrangling? The good folks of Mississippi as they swallow their higher premiums for decades to come. And the good folks of all the other states who elect similar folks to represent them in the Congress of the United States.
Steve Ebner

"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
Deborah MoroyUser is Offline
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04 Apr 2007 05:15 PM  
Steve, a new article addressing your very comments about
what's going on in MS:

http://www.propertyandcasualtyinsurancenews.com/cms/nupc/Breaking+News/2007/04/03-MISSRIP-dh

Great comments you made also on the concerns about rewriting the policies and the ensuing lawsuits this would produce!
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Tom TollUser is Offline
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04 Apr 2007 05:57 PM  
Many years ago, State Farm wrote a plain language policy, no frills, just coverage. They ended up in all kind of law suits, as attorneys found holes in the policy. That only lasted a few years and they went back to the standard policy language. Policies must be written the way they are written for obvious purposes. All policies have "Please Read Your Policy" on the first page. Most insured's just throw them into their filing cabinets and forget them until they have a loss. The statement the "This is not a flood policy" also appears on the front sheet. How is that hard to understand, unless your name is Trent Lott.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
Meg WattsUser is Offline
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04 Apr 2007 08:45 PM  

A sign on a Microwave at Wal-Mart saying "THIS IS NOT A TV"

Gee, I guess too many people were staring at the microwaves trying to watch "As the World Turns", huh?  (this is a joke)

Makes as much sense, doesn't it?

Wonder if books should now have a caveat on them saying "You might learn something"?

I shake my head and wonder, "what's the world coming to?"   

Do the right thing, ALWAYS
~Meg~
joseph lombardo jr.User is Offline
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05 Apr 2007 12:49 PM  
Meg,
I started shaking my head a long time ago.......

Welcome aboard!!!!

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Larry MurrayUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2007 01:14 PM  
Found what is needed.
This would require reading. Maybe a policy with illustration, Photos, showing a flooded house with the be red X over it. Then a photo showing wind damage to roof covering, this having a Green check mark over it, and etc.
I mean this as a joke but sad to say, may come to this.

Insurance for Dummies (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Insurance-Dummies-Jack-Hungelmann/dp/0764552945
Laine DebrowUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2007 03:59 PM  
Although I agree that agents could and should do more to educate their policyholders about what they are buying, I find it hard to believe that the average consumer doesn't realize the policy isn't a flood policy.  If a hurricane is threatening an area, every eye in that area is on the Weather Channel, and every commercial break contains an NFIP commercial, stating that most homeowner policies DON'T cover flooding.  The policy is written the way it is written because it has to be.  It is written in "legaleze". SF's policy contains such ridiculous wording as "this policy does not cover surface water, WHETHER DRIVEN BY WIND OR NOT", but who can understand that language?
Old fishermen never die, they just smell that way.
peter burchUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2007 09:48 PM  
THe inverse law of insurance policies. The policy holders recall of exclusions and coverage explainations decreases after a loss in direct porportion the the size of the loss.
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Ray HallUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2007 11:15 PM  
A big problem with  insurance losses on the Gulf and Atlantic Coast from Hurricane damage is the adjusters are not able to explain to the insureds in plain language the flood exclusions by reading it out loud.
Deborah MoroyUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2007 02:34 PM  
How about this one? Lott quoted as saying he won't settle his claim because the sisters sued by Renfroe?

I guess we know why they are being asked to speak to the committee hearings he is on regarding Katrina claim issues!


http://www.sunherald.com/199/story/24441.html

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Steve BeaumontUser is Offline
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06 Apr 2007 02:53 PM  
Not only that, don't forget the pressure ole Dickie put on SF to try and get them have Renfroe drop the suit against the sisters or the global settlement he was working on all the outstanding cases would be jeopardy. Keep in mind that settlement for some strange reason didn't go through and ole Dickie pulled his support of it and I wonder if it was just a coincidence that his pulling his support had anything to do with the fact the week before SF told him no to putting pressure on Renfroe. If SF did what is alleged, they deserve to get nailed, but through the criminal courts and the state and federal regulators. I have yet to hear anyone tell me what justification there is for these women to steal this paperwork and give it to a plaintiff attorney to use in lawsuits against SF.(a plaintiff attorney that was paying them $150,000 a year at that for "consultant work") To me that act is outright theft and even though they ended up giving them to the authorities, my $ would bet Dickie was involved in it way before the authorities.
Deborah MoroyUser is Offline
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11 Apr 2007 07:04 PM  
This is up now on the Ms Attorney General website which is his summary of the investigation against SF to include on page 35 a copy of the infamous yellow sticky note many news articles have commented on. There is also the copy of the corporate directive to claims on their procedures for handling Katrina claims, info on the case number on the Renfroe/Rigsby case, and make sure to read page 9 on the allegations made by the AG as to why independents were used" to avoid contractural relationships with policyholders"???

http://www.ago.state.ms.us/pressreleases/statefarm/reporthousesubcom.pdf
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Gale HawkinsUser is Offline
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11 Apr 2007 07:45 PM  
Debbie, while Hood’s logic sounded good to me with my limited understanding of the subject I did have a question about this below paragraph C on page 4 of the PDF file as it relates to page 33.
 
C. The Mcintosh case. A particularly egregious and outrageous scenario resulted from State
Farm's response to the claim of Thomas and Pamela Mcintosh, residents of Biloxi, Mississippi.
The couple had purchased a Homeowners policy with a hurricane deductible, and this coverage
was in effect at the time Hurricane Katrina devastated their home. Their dwelling was insured
for $619,6000, and their personal property was insured for $464,700. The Mclntosh family fied
suit against State Farm, and their trial is scheduled to take place in December of2007.
 
 
Now below on page 33 it seems to indicate Tom McIntosh has settled all claims with State Farm yet on page 4 the December 2007 trail date was mentioned.Debbie I must have missed something because I do not see the point of using this case in this 28 Feb 2007 document if all claims were settled before 23 Aug 2006? Thanks.
 
Transcript of Exhibit F
Initial: P AB
21 August 2006:
I am Thomas C. Mcintosh. My home at 2558 South Shore Drive, Biloxi, MS. was
destroyed by Flood/Surge and wind as a result of Hurricane Katrina. The date of the destruction
was on or about August 29,2005.
I have settled my claim not only on my home but also claims under policies that concerned
some rental property all ofwhich was insured by State Farm. All claims were paid according to
the policies in effect and I am satisfied that the adjustment and payment under these State Farm
policies was done correctly.
I have been advised that parties other tha(n) State Farm are (in) possession of copies of
my State Farm engineering report. I did not give anyone a copy of my report or authorize any
one to relate my report to any third pary including but not limited to any number of organizations
in the media industry (ABC news, the Sun-Herald, CBS news, Associated Press) or any other
news reporting organization. I consider anyone in possession of a copy of my report to be
committing a violation of my privacy and any broadcast of any information regarding my State
Farm insurance transactions to be aggravating the aforementioned Invasion of my privacy.
I authorize State Farm to advise media outlets such as ABC news and any other outlet
having possession of my report of my concern for my privacy; and to advise such outlet that I
have no dispute with State Farm over my insurance issues relating to the adjustment or payment
of my claims by State Farm.
I wish to advise that I do not now have any dispute with State Farm or anyone else
regarding my insurance claims; I do not want to be par of any such dispute; I do not have any
stake in the outcome of any litigation nor do I wish to be party to or stake-holder in such dispute
or litigation. Put another way: I wish to be left alone.
Signature
Ken Turner
Witness
Signature
Thomas C. Mcintosh
Dated: August 21, 2006
Initials: PAB & PM
 
Deborah MoroyUser is Offline
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11 Apr 2007 07:51 PM  

Interesting Gale. I can't answer that question not being familiar with the file. Seems there is much we will never understand about the two sides of the story on these files. I'm a little discouraged reading the news stories today about the engineering firm/carrier emails(not sure if this is already posted on CADO or not):

http://www.adn.com/24hour/business/story/3596459p-12867983c.html

 

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Deborah MoroyUser is Offline
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12 Apr 2007 12:27 AM  
Here's a 2nd article about "the email" with more comments from the engineering firm:

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070411/NEWS/704110362/1001/NEWS
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Deborah MoroyUser is Offline
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12 Apr 2007 12:38 AM  
The Scruggs group now has the Engineering firm email posted in this pdf but not the adjuster at this time:

http://www.scruggskatrinagroup.com/docs/randy_down_email.pdf
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Gale HawkinsUser is Offline
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12 Apr 2007 02:14 AM  

Debbie, what bites in this email raising the question of fraud at SF in Katina is that it could be cooked or edited as far as we know. Even if it turns out not to be factual the damage of public opinion will have already occurred because most reading it will assume it to be factual because most will believe a negative over a positive statement in cases like this I expect. I am almost sure the writer did not forward it to Scruggs. There are motives behind all intentional acts.

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