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Subject: Working Winter Storms
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Kim Stegall AAI ACA AICUser is Offline
Gold Member
SW FLorida
Member
Posts:19


10/18/2006 9:50 AM  
Mike,

I was an agent in Iowa before my husband and I became adjusters. We have been working daily claims in SW FL for the past 6 months. We have been absolutely amazed by the number of water losses. We have worked more water claims in the past 6 months than were reported to my agency in 20 years! The placement of equipment with leak potential is a big factor but it also seems like the plumbing materials just aren't as durable as in the midwest. In this short time in FL we have seen a leak from virtually everything in a dwelling with water in it. Either that or the midwesterners just say "Oh, well" and mop it up and fix it themselves without turning in a claim.

Kim
Steve BeaumontUser is Offline
Founding Member
Adjuster
Homeless Gypsy's-Fulltime RV travelers
Member
Posts:284


10/18/2006 10:13 AM  
After growing up in IL, I ended up eventually moving to Houston and lived there for 12-13 years. I was amazed to see the water lines and water heaters in the attics, and most of the time the connecting lines ran on top of the insulation, not under it. No houses there have basements, and it is very rare that the water heaters and inside the house itself. A lot are in attached garages along with the washers and dryers (most of the time unheated). I think it is cheaper to build the houses this way, and living space isn't used for these items. I had a house with two water heaters in the attic, along with the air conditioning and heater units. I actually measured some of these items and they wouldn't fit thru the opening in the ceiling that gave access to the area. I discussed this with a repairman once and he said that when this happens, they put a smaller sized unit up there for a replacement, and just leave the old one there. There are a lot of water claims in that area from a/c drip pans overflowing, and water heaters rusting thru, etc, but freeze claims aren't common due to the mild climate. It needs to be down in the teens for probably at least 24 hrs before attic pipes freeze. Difference is up in IL it usually needs to be below zero for a few days before it happens.
Ray HallUser is Offline
Adjuster
Houston, TX
Member
Posts:808


10/18/2006 10:58 AM  

This is a coverage topic for new and old adjusters in regards the Houston freeze , Christmas 89.

A two story house had an entry and den that had 18 foot ceilings, with block paneling on the den walls.On the exterior of the exposed den wall the material was {Masonite type}. The studs and wall cavity was normal. The 9 degree temp caused the 1x4 horizontal lath the paneling was glued to to move horizontally and split/break the vertical 4x10 sheets from top to bottom on the North wall on 2 foot centers 4 inch's high or the size of the lath.

My answer later after the input. A Texas HOB.

Steve BeaumontUser is Offline
Founding Member
Adjuster
Homeless Gypsy's-Fulltime RV travelers
Member
Posts:284


10/18/2006 11:30 AM  
Ray, is there such a thing as an HOB anymore? I don't have one around here as I'm on vacation in CA, but my shoot from the hip answer would be there is no coverage. Almost all policies that I'm familiar with have an exclusion in it that excludes losses due to, caused by, etc changes and extremes in temperatures. Another standard exclusion would be losses caused by expansion and contraction of walls, floors, roofs, etc, and the fact that just the 9 degree temps caused the expansion and contraction I would say no coverage (if hOB has those exclusions). I moved to TX in 1990 and forgot all my knowledge what the real world of insurance coverages was like and took a step back to the dark ages when I started dealing with the coverages provided in TX. I also learned that if 49 states exclude something, it doesn't mean that is the way it works in TX
joseph lombardo jr.User is Offline
Adjuster
Clearwater, Florida
Member
Posts:112


10/18/2006 2:11 PM  
Kim,
Our copper pipes and metal appliances that are subjected to water in Florida take a beating.....our water is very high in minerals and subsequently our plumbing systems are subject to galvanic corrosion as well as in some instance electrolysis.......The best way to extend the life of the plumbing systems and appliances is by installing a water softener......
Ray HallUser is Offline
Adjuster
Houston, TX
Member
Posts:808


10/19/2006 4:29 PM  

Texas still has a few HOB's around. Most of the Homeowners in Texas now are the A which is 16 named peril with RCC coverage on the building and optional on UPP.

You hit it on the head Steve, this resulting damage was excluded under the extreme temp and the settlement, movement exclusion.

We still have accidental water breakage of pipes and appliances, but the owners do not turn them in unless the loss runs up into the thousands. The local HO claims have been cut by about 75% since you worked in Texas.

All the seacoast counties are being dropped by the carriers and going into the TWIA (wind pool). and the non standard underwriters. The single adjuster program will be almost non existent.

The TWIA spent their reserve fund on Rita and will watch the claim payments close if Texas gets hit, but Texas is a good political state and we have buds in high places.... maybe some Katrina/NOLA type help...

Tom TollUser is Offline
Life Member
Moderator
Member
Posts:916


10/19/2006 6:14 PM  
Ray, are you talking about the big freeze event that occurred after Hurricane Alecia on August 19, 1983. The freeze hit just before christmas and was very severe with 19 days of below freezing temperatures. As independents, we actually made more income off the freeze than we did Alecia. Some houses were extremely damaged (ie) drywall ceilings and walls turned to mush and all floors ruined, etc. Brings back old memories.
The freeze also occurred in Arkansas. I had parked my Dodge van outside one night and could not move it the next morning, as it was frozen to the ground. Then got a call to come back to Houston and work freeze claims and away we went.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
Steve BeaumontUser is Offline
Founding Member
Adjuster
Homeless Gypsy's-Fulltime RV travelers
Member
Posts:284


10/20/2006 10:14 AM  
Tom, that is one of them and the next big one was Christmas Eve/Christmas 1989.  The way the winter is starting out this year, we may well be in for a couple hard freezes is some large southern states.  They can do a ton of damage due to construction techniques in the area, and the damages are usually very widespread which generates a lot of claims.
Ray HallUser is Offline
Adjuster
Houston, TX
Member
Posts:808


10/20/2006 11:09 AM  
Both these severe storms in Houston followed a Hurricane. Hugo 89, Alicia 93. Both were very good. I remember my feet being cold from the wet floors as my boots never dryed out.  Also the inspections best times were from to 4 to 10 PM when the folks got home.
Steve EbnerUser is Offline
Moderator
Lake Ariel, PA
Member
Posts:320


10/31/2006 5:17 PM  

Harking back to Steve's original query about who has worked winter storms and what interest there is in working them, I can only say that they have been my bread and butter during some of the slower years (and even one of the not-so-slow years).  Mike makes a good point about no one necessarily wanting to specialize in them.  If given the choice of working in Florida, Cleveland, or Watertown in January, few would choose either of the latter two options. 

But, there are some considerations for choosing to work a winter storm that anyone who has not experienced it should consider.  These include the facts that much of the work resulting from a winter storm may not be cat work and much of it may not be a claim for winter storm damage or even be a claim filed in winter.  This probably sounds confusing.  Therefore, let me clarify a little.  Three of the major winter storm assignments I have worked have extended far beyond the winter.  In January 2000 I went to Fairfax, VA, to work winter storm damage and finally left the DC/Baltimore area in March 2001.  In April 2001, I was sent to Kalamazoo, MI (where I settled for a couple years for personal reasons) to work winter storm claims for a storm that happened in February.  I left at the end of June.  In January 2004 I missed the hurricane season completely because I was in New York/Boston as a result of winter storms from January 14 through December 18. 

What happens frequently in a winter storm situation is different from what happens with a hurricane.  Before the hurricane hits, carriers are on the phone to vendors and vendors are on the phone to catadjusters making sure they have an army of adjusters ready to handle the storm when it hits.  In a winter storm situation, carriers and national vendors with many local offices will often attempt to handle the cat with existing staff.  Often they do not initially realize the magnitude of this task.  By the time they call in a few catadjusters the staff people are dealing with a mess that is totally out of control.  This is why I got called to go to Michigan more than two months after the storm.  This is also why I had such extended assignments in New England and DC/Baltimore.  In all three of these assignments I encountered both carrier and vendor staff who were overloaded with impossible claim counts and getting further behind every day.  So, while I was deployed ostensibly to handle a freeze event, the reality was that I was being deployed to help everyone get caught up - a monumental task indeed in a profession where there is no "caught up", only acceptable and unacceptable levels of "behind".  (Huskercat, I can tell that a derrière comment is forming in your mind as you read this.)The claim volume that had begun with an overload of claims as a result of winter storms had snowballed into a general backup of every type of claim imaginable.  The carriers were assigning more claims to independents than they would normally.  The vendors were then assigning me every claim that came into the office so their staff adjusters could get caught up. 

The best adjusters to send into this situation are going to be those who can handle fires, floods, toilet backups, roof leaks, mold claims, vehicles running into trees, large loss commercial, and just about any other claim that might be filed.  The most prolific vendors during these periods will be those with permanent local offices in the storm area.  Bear in mind that these are not cookie cutter claims like a wind or hail catastrophe might produce, and in many cases the insured must be present to give us access to the damaged property, so production numbers will not likely be as high as on a hurricane or hailstorm.

To exacerbate the log jam of claims, there are aspects of a winter storm that only become apparent when the temperatures rise to the point that mold and bacteria flourish.  So, several months after the storm, a moldy smell begins to fill the house and the roof decking has a noticeable sag.  Neighbors talk to neighbors and the storm claims revive with supplement requests attached.  Among my advice to those who would wish to work winter storms would be the following:

1.) Don't consider specializing.  If anything consider generalizing.  You may be called on to work any kind of claim imaginable.  Learn as much as you can about as many types of claims as you can.

2.)  Keep the policies open, and don't hesitate to ask for the applicable policy form.  No one has these memorized, but someone who can read a policy and is quick to do so is invaluable.

and 3.)  Don't go out with the intention of making a quick buck and heading home.  This is a "tortoise and the hare" sort of situation.  Most of the money to be made is likely to be waiting on the table for the few who stay when everyone else has gone home.

 


Steve Ebner

"With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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